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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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SALVATION
- Thread starter Cornelius
- Start date
I found the energy so I quickly looked up the scriptures for you 
By faith that manifest itself. Those who manifest salvation WILL bear the fruit of it, thirty, sixty or a hundred fold will be chosen.
Mat 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth [it] which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
God only wants Christ. He is not interested in our old sinful lives. He wants that live to be declared dead and crucified. So if we believe that we can only believe in a physical Jesus and be saved, without dying to self: We are deceived.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord......Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that [life] which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, [the faith] which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.
We have to use faith in what has been done for us.
Hbr 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to be well-pleasing [unto him]; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that seek after him.
Then that faith must come to manifestation .
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.
Jesus came to take the sin of the world away, not just to forgive it.
Jhn 1:29 On the morrow he seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world!
We are not to be in bondage to sin anymore.
Rom 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be done away, that so we should no longer be in bondage to sinRom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. We who died to sin, how shall we any longer live therein?Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto sanctification, and the end eternal
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God, that, whereas ye were servants of sin, ye became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching whereunto ye were delivered;
Rom 6:18 and being made free from sin, ye became servants of righteousness.]
Most Christians believe its OK to just live it, because they believe not even God can help them to stop sinning. Do you believe its within God's power to make you stop sinning, or is the devil stronger ?
Rom 7:24 Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Jesus did not just buy us "fire-insurance" He did much more than that. Freedom from the curse means freedom from the curse. Not some half baked little salvation that has these little sinning worms running around. No, it is a Godly salvation that actually cost Jesus His life. With that He paid FULLY, so that we can now overcome.
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Why do Christians not know how to overcome? Why is it not preached? Only those who overcome gets to get eternal life and yet that is ignored and pushed aside.
1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, [even] our faith.Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. To him that overcometh, to him will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God.Rev 3:5 He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. (There are more verses, but these will do)
Most chant the mantra" Only believe in Jesus" Yes sure, believe, but then you have to walk in that believe. He said we will walk as He walked.
1Jo 2:6 he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.
So many verses tell us to bear fruit and yet we think it means to just be kind to our neighbor.
Luk 8:14 And that which fell among the thorns, these are they that have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of [this] life, and bring no fruit to perfection.Luk 8:15 And that in the good ground, these are such as in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, hold it fast, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Luk 13:6 And he spake this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came seeking fruit thereon, and found none.Jhn 4:36 He that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal; that he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
Jhn 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a grain of wheat fall into the earth and die, it abideth by itself alone; but if it die, it beareth much fruit.
Jhn 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he cleanseth it, that it may bear more fruit.
Jhn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; so neither can ye, except ye abide in me.
Jhn 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; and [so] shall ye be my disciples.
Read the parable of the Sower and see how the Word , which falls into the hearts of Christians either bears Fruit (Christ) or not. Also see that Jesus says that the Word MUST bear fruit either 30, or 60 or 100 fold. The Christian with 100 fold is definitely not the same as the one who bears 30 fold.
Mat 13:23 And he that was sown upon the good ground, this is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; who verily beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Paul (correction: Jesus said this ) says to be careful nobody takes your crown.
Jam 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation; for when he hath been approved, he shall receive the crown of life, which [the Lord] promised to them that love him.
Rev 2:10 Fear not the things which thou art about to suffer: behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days. Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee the crown of life.
Rev 3:11 I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown.
Salvation is Christ. So those who are saved manifests Christ.
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.
[/quote]
By faith that manifest itself. Those who manifest salvation WILL bear the fruit of it, thirty, sixty or a hundred fold will be chosen.
Mat 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth [it] which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
God only wants Christ. He is not interested in our old sinful lives. He wants that live to be declared dead and crucified. So if we believe that we can only believe in a physical Jesus and be saved, without dying to self: We are deceived.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord......Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that [life] which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, [the faith] which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.
We have to use faith in what has been done for us.
Hbr 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to be well-pleasing [unto him]; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that seek after him.
Then that faith must come to manifestation .
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.
Jesus came to take the sin of the world away, not just to forgive it.
Jhn 1:29 On the morrow he seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world!
We are not to be in bondage to sin anymore.
Rom 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be done away, that so we should no longer be in bondage to sinRom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. We who died to sin, how shall we any longer live therein?Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto sanctification, and the end eternal
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God, that, whereas ye were servants of sin, ye became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching whereunto ye were delivered;
Rom 6:18 and being made free from sin, ye became servants of righteousness.]
Most Christians believe its OK to just live it, because they believe not even God can help them to stop sinning. Do you believe its within God's power to make you stop sinning, or is the devil stronger ?
Rom 7:24 Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Jesus did not just buy us "fire-insurance" He did much more than that. Freedom from the curse means freedom from the curse. Not some half baked little salvation that has these little sinning worms running around. No, it is a Godly salvation that actually cost Jesus His life. With that He paid FULLY, so that we can now overcome.
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Why do Christians not know how to overcome? Why is it not preached? Only those who overcome gets to get eternal life and yet that is ignored and pushed aside.
1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, [even] our faith.Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. To him that overcometh, to him will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God.Rev 3:5 He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. (There are more verses, but these will do)
Most chant the mantra" Only believe in Jesus" Yes sure, believe, but then you have to walk in that believe. He said we will walk as He walked.
1Jo 2:6 he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.
So many verses tell us to bear fruit and yet we think it means to just be kind to our neighbor.
Luk 8:14 And that which fell among the thorns, these are they that have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of [this] life, and bring no fruit to perfection.Luk 8:15 And that in the good ground, these are such as in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, hold it fast, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Luk 13:6 And he spake this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came seeking fruit thereon, and found none.Jhn 4:36 He that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal; that he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
Jhn 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a grain of wheat fall into the earth and die, it abideth by itself alone; but if it die, it beareth much fruit.
Jhn 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he cleanseth it, that it may bear more fruit.
Jhn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; so neither can ye, except ye abide in me.
Jhn 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; and [so] shall ye be my disciples.
Read the parable of the Sower and see how the Word , which falls into the hearts of Christians either bears Fruit (Christ) or not. Also see that Jesus says that the Word MUST bear fruit either 30, or 60 or 100 fold. The Christian with 100 fold is definitely not the same as the one who bears 30 fold.
Mat 13:23 And he that was sown upon the good ground, this is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; who verily beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Paul (correction: Jesus said this ) says to be careful nobody takes your crown.
Jam 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation; for when he hath been approved, he shall receive the crown of life, which [the Lord] promised to them that love him.
Rev 2:10 Fear not the things which thou art about to suffer: behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days. Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee the crown of life.
Rev 3:11 I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown.
Salvation is Christ. So those who are saved manifests Christ.
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.
[/quote]
Cornelius said:
8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God; 9 Not of works, that no man may glory.
These works are not vain works done on our own accord or merit, but works done by the grace of God, when one is in a state of Grace or "right relationship" with God. I'm sure some folks could elaborate on my reply.
Paul was writing to the Ephesians that works could not get them into heaven. That they could not boost about how much they helped someone, how much money they gave or anything that they did, that their works would not get them a place in heaven. Paul was restating what Jesus already said that it was a gift that he gives us.
I disagee with you that there are different bearer of fruit. If a man saves one man in his life time and the next only saves 5, but one of the 5 saves hundreds are they not the same. Is one any less in Gods eyes. I say not. All are equal.
We may strive to manifest Christ, but we are still human there is no way our trying to be perfect can get us into heaven, that is why Christ died on the cross.
Exactly! So as saved individuals we are in Christ. Sealed. It's a done deal.
I agree, but it is Christ who accomplishes this - In Christ We can do all things. I am powerless with out God. Over everything. I do agree that we must take action, and choose to walk in the spirit as opposed to the flesh.
You said in an earlier post that you have struggled with sin on an ongoing basis -(who hasnt, I'm not judging you for that) but can I ask, at that time when you where in bondage to this sin, I assume you believe that you had lost your salvation? In that case, how did you earn it back again?
I agree, but you admitted that you where a little sinning worm after you received Christ. Did you loose your salvation?
Revelatiuon is full of Christ saying the kingdom of heaven belongs to those who overcome, he says it at least nine times in the first few chapters of revelation. Of course it's preached. A lot of churches (the whole charasmatic and pentecostal movement to be precise) preach what you preach, and the flock are consequently in bondage to this sinful doctrine and they live their lives in fear of losing their salvation, not out of love for the saviour. This is a works based religion, it is not Christianity.
One cant bare fruit unless they are grafted into the vine, those branches that have been cut off are the jews who have rejected Christ as the Mesiah.
beardedad said:
No, we are not to strive. We are to REST .Hbr 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Perfection is not achieved by humans, its given by God by grace (unmerited favor) It comes WITH Christ, because He is perfect. We must have faith that this is indeed possible for God (to perfect us) because everything we eventually receive is through faith: Let it be according to your faith.
C
Panin said:
I agree, but it is Christ who accomplishes this - In Christ We can do all things. I am powerless with out God. Over everything. I do agree that we must take action, and choose to walk in the spirit as opposed to the flesh.
Agreed
You said in an earlier post that you have struggled with sin on an ongoing basis -(who hasnt, I'm not judging you for that) but can I ask, at that time when you where in bondage to this sin, I assume you believe that you had lost your salvation? In that case, how did you earn it back again?
No , this is where most people get confused. They confuse bondage with "willing sin". After I came to the knowledge of the Truth, I repented and set my heart against it. I told God that I now AGREE with Him and that even though this seemed stronger than myself, I believe the Word which says 1Cr 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it]. I also saw that I must then agree and DO what the Bible tells me and I did :Rom 6:11 Even so reckon ye also yourselves to be dead unto sin, but alive unto God in Christ Jesus. and to that I added what Paul said , because I also said Oh retched man that I am who will save me.............Answer : Jesus Christ.
Unknown sin is not reckoned against me, the Bible says I must walk in the light (knowledge) that I have. That I do. Sin that is caused by stumbling........that is not willing, its stumbling and that is not against my account, its under the blood too. The sin that I fight against, but where I am still sometimes fail God in, that now too, is not for my account, because I am now in faith against it. My position has changed and God and I , we are in agreement against this and now I stand in the promises. I realized that Jesus actually set me free at the cross ALREADY, because He CAME to set the captives (from the flesh) free. He came..........He accomplished...........He said : It is finished.
Now I live by faith and in the victory that Jesus gave me. I cannot do anything by myself., but through Christ I can do everything.I studied 2 Peter 1 and saw that God had already given us everything we need to live holy lives !
2Pe 1:3 seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue;
I saw that this came through the correct knowledge of the Word. I saw that faith is only possible when we realize that everything has already been done at the cross. We cannot have faith if we hope that God will do something. We can only have faith in what has already happened at the cross. We can only be free when the truth sets us free.
So now I overcame in Christ. First faith.........THEN freedom !
I agree, but you admitted that you where a little sinning worm after you received Christ. Did you loose your salvation?
At one stage , because of a lack of knowledge, I backslided and would have been lost if I died then. But God is gracious and He knows when we are ignorant . Its when we have come to the knowledge of truth, that we are in real danger. Then we are very much responsible. During that time, I never heard His voice, but for one time. I was standing on a corner near where I then lived and prayed. I said: God I want to come back. and suddenly I heard His voice. He said : Not now. He kept me in my misery for a while longer and I learned what it was to live without Him. That was only the start. After this He took me out of religion too and started teaching me the spirit of the Word. But that is another story.
Revelatiuon is full of Christ saying the kingdom of heaven belongs to those who overcome, he says it at least nine times in the first few chapters of revelation. Of course it's preached. A lot of churches (the whole charasmatic and pentecostal movement to be precise) preach what you preach, and the flock are consequently in bondage to this sinful doctrine and they live their lives in fear of losing their salvation, not out of love for the saviour. This is a works based religion, it is not Christianity.
The only reason why they cannot overcome is because they have no teaching on HOW. I went through a bit of the HOW with you in the beginning of my post. Its because of a lack of knowledge that they perish. It is not a "sinful doctrine" because they are the very words of Jesus. He taught that and so did all the writers of the Bible.
One cant bare fruit unless they are grafted into the vine, those branches that have been cut off are the jews who have rejected Christ as the Mesiah.[/quote:kb32yby6]
The parable of the Sower is a very clear example of why some Christians do not bear fruit. The parable speaks of believers who hear the Word, accept it, and then that Word must be tested. They fail when the testing comes. Some fail totally, some a little less, but some hear the Word , take it to good soil (their hearts) and even through trials, they keep on confessing the Truth . Their eyes see the giant, but their spiritual eyes see the Word. They use the Sword of the Spirit against the situation and after a trial of their faith, they overcome. Why? Because God ALWAYS honors His Word.
That is how you bear fruit. You must walk like Jesus in every situation. You must rest (Hebrews) in the promises. Like Paul teaches: You have to be weak in the flesh, so that you can see the power of God in every situation. You have to say like Jesus : In myself I can do nothing. ..............and then you must STAND AND STAND AND STAND on the promise until it comes into manifestation.
Blessings
C
Ignorance is no defense against Gods law, it will not suffice come judgement day when the lost stand before God either, so why do you think you will get any leniency. God would not "re-save" you based on your own ignorance, and I put it you right now, neither where you ignorant about sin and or about what you where doing IE the sins you where involve in. Why? Because the Holy Spirit was residing within you at the time and you where grieving the Holy Spirit, and you felt it. If this is not your experience, you where never saved in the first place.
I dont agree with you, at all, on this.
You still havent made it clear to me how to get saved yet either.
Cornelius said:
Wrong way round mate. No salvation, no overcoming. The END.
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
PS: how do you keep in Christ?
Cornelius said:
Actually, somone else said that, but I can agree. :biglaugh
It was my bad, I'd messed up my post.
The only ones who can "slip out" of Christ are those who have not yet been born again.
The seeds planted in sandy ground...no root. We become rooted in Him when we're born again a new creation.
Right, but all who this parable speak about are believers or Christians. Some of the rocky ground and sandy ground Christians are also preaching to us today.
We do not get to say which we are. We are all on this road and on this road there are sandy patches and rocky patches. We all have struggled with these. Sometimes the sands wins or the birds (demons) grab the Word from us. But we are BEING born from above. It is an everyday event. The Seed (Word) falls into our hearts (spirit) and in some it bears little or no fruit.
But in those who overcome, it bears thirty, sixty and a hundred fold. Twenty fold of fruit in a believer is strangely left out. Seems like God is saying: Thirty is the least fruit you can bear.Less than that are those who are in sandy and rocky patches with little or no fruit.
C
We do not get to say which we are. We are all on this road and on this road there are sandy patches and rocky patches. We all have struggled with these. Sometimes the sands wins or the birds (demons) grab the Word from us. But we are BEING born from above. It is an everyday event. The Seed (Word) falls into our hearts (spirit) and in some it bears little or no fruit.
But in those who overcome, it bears thirty, sixty and a hundred fold. Twenty fold of fruit in a believer is strangely left out. Seems like God is saying: Thirty is the least fruit you can bear.Less than that are those who are in sandy and rocky patches with little or no fruit.
C
Huh? I don't see them all as believers.Cornelius said:
The seed is the Word that gets sown.
Some receive the Word....lots of people hear the Gospel, and even believe.
But belief alone is not salvation.
It's only the seed sown in fertile ground (prepared heart) that takes root in Jesus...then being filled with the Holy Spirit His fruit can be produced.
Cornelius said:
Saved from what, is the question.
Saved from being killed by those who hate us?
Saved from the wrath to come?
Saved in childbirth?
Saved from false teachings?
Our lives will be saved?
There are many things to be saved from...if we're born again it isn't referring to our eternal salvation.