SALVATION

[Panin]

Can you even carry on a conversation without accusing me of "spouting nonsense"?

Not really, especially when you call salvation a "sacred pig" and use words like synthesis. Do you know that word is born out of the following:

Thesis + antithesis = Synthesis. It is a masonic term along the same lines as the New World Order Mantra; Order out of Chaos.

Are you a Mason?

I know you would love to drag the "sacred pig" of eternal security in Christ alone, out into the public square and burn it at the stake, and you have done, but it still has not killed the truth.

Your mockery and disdain for truth on this, a Chritsian website, is flabbergasting, and frankly I have no idea how you are getting way with it.

 

[francisdesales]

David is calling down God's judgment against the unbelieving nation of Israel.
Let them be blotted out of the book of the living.. let them not be written with the righteous...that's a far cry from being written in the Lamb's book of Life, and then blotted out.
As here...

According to you... Where is your evidence that there are "two" books of life in heaven, one for the Jews and one written for the Lamb???

There is no Jew or Greek with Christ. There is only one "book of Life", which obviously is a metaphor, not refering to some ACTUAL book!!!

Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them.

This refers to ANYONE, even once-righteous people who turn away from God...

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. Ez 18:24.

God is NOT a respecter of anyone, even Christians. Paul specifically warns against your attitudes in Romans and being cut off from the root, just as the original branches were cut off...

there is no security In Christ for the one who LEAVES Christ, thus, the Scriptures speak of NOT falling away...

As far as your other examples...they don't work for you, either. We have overcome the world already because Jesus overcame.

Sure they work...

We only overcame the world AS we actually overcome it... When we return to a life of sin, we have overcome nothing...

And...I'm sure not taking away or adding anything to the Bible or the Book of Revelation.

Your interpretation does - but even if you remain obstinate, the point is SOMEONE can be REMOVED FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE - which shows you are incorrect, yet again...

 

[Panin]

God is NOT a respecter of anyone, even Christians. Paul specifically warns against your attitudes in Romans and being cut off from the root, just as the original branches were cut off...

John 3:16

 

[glorydaz]

Your unbelief in the work of the cross is a denial of Jesus.

Have you actually sat down and thought about that, or do you just mimic like a parrot???

Do you think Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin are in heaven? Judas Iscariot??? Countless other evil people are in hell, no doubt. Now, if the work of Christ was unconditionally applied, regardless of ANYTHING we do, then you are saying that these people all are sitting at the Banquet Feast with Christ.

I think you should re-appraise your theology here. Follow its logical conclusions.

Sure, as a cliche, it sounds lovely and holy, but in reality, it is not Christian...

We are called to DO something BEFORE we receive the value of Christs' Work. repent. Believe. Walk in faith. Love others. Avoid sin. Etc...

A person is saved by His work, alone, and those who are His will never be lost.

So God randomly picks and chooses absolutely those who go to heaven and hell? So God eternally predestines people to hell, no matter how good that person tries to be???

And "this God" is "just"????? A person has absolutely no choice but eternal hell???

Again, I fear you are just repeating the party line without actually thinking about what you are saying...

I fear you do not have the correct understanding of God as a loving God, Love ITSELF...

Regards

I'm going to have to break up your post a bit...it's too much for me to address in one sitting.
I have never ever even implied that Hitler will be sitting at the Banquet Feast, so there's no need for me to "re-appraise" my theology. I understand the work of the cross quite well. I'm mimicking no one...I'm simply saying His work on the cross was a work of pure grace. Nothing we have done or can ever do in the future can be counted to our credit. We accept and follow the Shepherd where He leads. We were bought with a price, and now we are His.

I have never suggested God randomly chooses who goes to heaven and hell. Don't try to drape that false doctrine on my shoulders. The cross reconciled men with God...now all men have access to God. Having access to God does not mean everyone will take advantage of that access. Not all will believe, much less repent. Certainly, being God, He foreknew who would answer His call to repent and be saved. Does that mean we're programmed, or deprived of our free will? No...and I've never suggested any such thing.

Stop accusing me of following the party line. You don't know me or my background...except I was in the Catholic Church for years. I had access to God then, although I didn't really hear the Gospel preached when I was there. Mass was in Latin, and I was taught the Catholic doctrine in school. Later, when I accepted the Lord and was born again, I didn't attend any organized religious denomination. I've continued in New Testament bodies of believers since then...no one pastor church, but body ministries. My Bible is always my guide, so you don't need to continue to suggest I've been programmed. It isn't true and it's getting old.

Now, I'll go on and try to address your other points. I am not avoiding what you say...you just say so much in each post I can't keep track of everything.

 

[glorydaz]

i think that you are saying and they are misreading you, i was looking at your posts on paul and thought it makes sense if you put what pauls says with james on "works"

faith without works is dead and works without faith wont get you to heaven.

We cannot miss either. You need both: being obedient to Jesus (work) and having faith in Him. If we have faith in Him we will not disregard or dishonor Jesus' commandments. We won't say "we cannot be saved by our works".

.

Yes, we can say that, and we should say that.....We cannot be saved by our works.

Our work is to believe in Jesus' work.
Then, after we're saved, our good deeds will follow by way of our obedience to the Holy Spirit who indwells all true believers.

 

[Drew]

1. Paul says in Romans 2 that people will get eternal life based on persistence in doing good;

2. Nowhere in Romans 2 does Paul assert that he is talking about a purely hypothetical path to attaining salvation that zero persons will achieve;

3. The traditional way of getting around points 1 and 2 is to appeal to statements in Romans 3 and Ephesians 2, and other texts, where Paul denies the salvific (or justifying) power of “worksâ€;

4. The problem with point (3) is that is clear, in all these cases, that Paul is not denying salvation (justification) by “good works†but rather salvation (justification) by doing the works of the Torah – the Law of Moses. Such statements always appear in a context where Paul is arguing for the end of the Jew-Gentile divide and putting to rest the Jewish boast that salvation is only for followers of Torah, that is Jews. Thus in Romans 10, we get this statement about the Jews “For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own,…â€

5. Even though Romans 3 tells us that unregenerate man cannot do anything good, Romans 8 makes it clear that the Spirit enables us to “walk†in His ways. And at the end of Romans 8, Paul talks about how God has pre-determined that believers will be conformed to the image of the Son. And if the works of someone conformed to the image of the Son are not good enough for the Romans 2 judgement, I do not what is.

As can be seen, there really is no “argument†left for those who deny that, as per Romans 2, and 2 Corinthians 5, final salvation will be based on the entirety of the life led, that is “good worksâ€. The only “out†– the only reason to deny salvation by “good works†is to make the case that the Romans 2 statements are “hypothetical†statements – statements of what would be the case if were possible to be saved by good works. Well, there is no such case, as per point 4.

 

[shad]

Our work is to believe in Jesus' work.
Then, after we're saved, our good deeds will follow by way of our obedience to the Holy Spirit who indwells all true believers.

But you have been saying that good deeds cannot save us. You are preaching against Jesus' commandment.

If you are not showing good works, you are not saved. How do you know you have good works? You are judging yourself as being saved. Only Jesus is the judge if you are producing good deeds, dude.

.

 

[glorydaz]

Can you even carry on a conversation without accusing me of "spouting nonsense"?

You seem to claim that our work of God and our works are the same.
Jesus says quite clearly that our "work" is to believe in Him.
That would be the only work that justifies us before God.

Go back and read James again. It says faith alone DOES NOT save us.

And don't bother with the "justified before man" stuff. I clearly have refuted that. That is not what James is talking about, clearly expressed by his choice of example...

The WORK that Jesus spoke of - faith in God - does NOT EXCLUDE our works of love. Have you actually read the Gospels, beginning to end? How can anyone get the idea that Jesus does NOT want us to "DO" things, just have "faith"? Oh, we see the same COUPLE passages, twisted out of context, but what about the entire rest of what He says?

The only work required in order to be saved is to believe.
"John 6:29"]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

So from Jesus words, you INVENT and INTERJECT the word ONLY!!!

Can't you see you are changing Scriptures to fit your theology???

Jesus does NOT nor ever IMPLIES that the ONLY thing we are to do is have faith in God... He VERY STRONLGY states that we are ALSO to OBEY HIS WILL!!!

Obedience requires "work", human action... There is no way around this. I ask you - look more carefully at your statement and ask yourself - "is it necessary that i add 'only' to Jesus statement"? Does the rest of Matthew and Luke tell me I am NOT to "work"? that humans are NOT to "do" things???

Here Jesus is telling the doubters that if they can't believe Him to at least believe the WORKS He has done. Do you see that?

For entirely different reasons than you see.

Jesus is offering evidence of his teachings... HOW could his teachings be from God, truth, IF Jesus was doing such miraculous actions? The Sanheddrin asked that same question while debating on what to do with Jesus. Jesus WORKS were evidence that God approved of Jesus remarkable teachings... If God disagreed with Jesus, the works would not have happened... The WORKS are vindication of the truth of Jesus teachings, ESP the work of the Resurrection...

you are trying to relate "works of Jesus" to something that saves us here... that is out of context.

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Here again..man is not justified by works of the law (be they stone or natural ie. Rom. 1 and 2), but by faith in Christ.

This is not even the primary theme of Romans... AGAIN, I say...

I have already explained that, but you flat out ignored that, as well... How can you deny that people were justified in Romans 2??? Have you even READ Romans 2???

So, to use your own words..."Engage you brain" and perhaps you'll see I'm not spouting nonsense at all, but the Word of God. It's quite clear, but it does require some spiritual discernment in order to see.

yea, it does... I think I have defended my point of view - but you just avoid the issues...How many times have I spoken about Romans 2 - and you continue your false interpretation like I said absolutely nothing... Even if you choose not to engage my arguments, others will see your refusal for what it is...

Fear of the Truth.

The only thing I will say to this post is I'll wager I've read the entire Bible more times than you have even picked it up. Just because you assert something, sure doesn't mean you're right. You aren't right most of the time, so you'll have to forgive me if I'm not buying. I've told you many things many times and you continue to reject it. See how that works both ways?

 

[Panin]

Can you even carry on a conversation without accusing me of "spouting nonsense"?

You seem to claim that our work of God and our works are the same.
Jesus says quite clearly that our "work" is to believe in Him.
That would be the only work that justifies us before God.

Go back and read James again. It says faith alone DOES NOT save us.

And don't bother with the "justified before man" stuff. I clearly have refuted that. That is not what James is talking about, clearly expressed by his choice of example...

The WORK that Jesus spoke of - faith in God - does NOT EXCLUDE our works of love. Have you actually read the Gospels, beginning to end? How can anyone get the idea that Jesus does NOT want us to "DO" things, just have "faith"? Oh, we see the same COUPLE passages, twisted out of context, but what about the entire rest of what He says?

The only work required in order to be saved is to believe.
"John 6:29"]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

So from Jesus words, you INVENT and INTERJECT the word ONLY!!!

Can't you see you are changing Scriptures to fit your theology???

Jesus does NOT nor ever IMPLIES that the ONLY thing we are to do is have faith in God... He VERY STRONLGY states that we are ALSO to OBEY HIS WILL!!!

Obedience requires "work", human action... There is no way around this. I ask you - look more carefully at your statement and ask yourself - "is it necessary that i add 'only' to Jesus statement"? Does the rest of Matthew and Luke tell me I am NOT to "work"? that humans are NOT to "do" things???

Here Jesus is telling the doubters that if they can't believe Him to at least believe the WORKS He has done. Do you see that?

For entirely different reasons than you see.

Jesus is offering evidence of his teachings... HOW could his teachings be from God, truth, IF Jesus was doing such miraculous actions? The Sanheddrin asked that same question while debating on what to do with Jesus. Jesus WORKS were evidence that God approved of Jesus remarkable teachings... If God disagreed with Jesus, the works would not have happened... The WORKS are vindication of the truth of Jesus teachings, ESP the work of the Resurrection...

you are trying to relate "works of Jesus" to something that saves us here... that is out of context.

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Here again..man is not justified by works of the law (be they stone or natural ie. Rom. 1 and 2), but by faith in Christ.

This is not even the primary theme of Romans... AGAIN, I say...

I have already explained that, but you flat out ignored that, as well... How can you deny that people were justified in Romans 2??? Have you even READ Romans 2???

So, to use your own words..."Engage you brain" and perhaps you'll see I'm not spouting nonsense at all, but the Word of God. It's quite clear, but it does require some spiritual discernment in order to see.

yea, it does... I think I have defended my point of view - but you just avoid the issues...How many times have I spoken about Romans 2 - and you continue your false interpretation like I said absolutely nothing... Even if you choose not to engage my arguments, others will see your refusal for what it is...

Fear of the Truth.

The only thing I will say to this post is I'll wager I've read the entire Bible more times than you have even picked it up. Just because you assert something, sure doesn't mean you're right. You aren't right most of the time, so you'll have to forgive me if I'm not buying. I've told you many things many times and you continue to reject it. See how that works both ways?

Hi Glory, you've fought he good fight. I hope this tiresome barage from the gates of hell upon the foundation of the Christian faith is not robbing you of the joy of Your slavation.

God Bless You.

 

[Drew]

Hi Glory, you've fought he good fight. I hope this tiresome barage from the gates of hell upon the foundation of the Christian faith is not robbing you of the joy of Your slavation.

This is clearly inappropriate and I appeal to to the moderators in respect to this.

It is entirely unacceptable to resort to this kind of demonization. Fine, you do not agree with fds (and with me). And perhaps either or both of us have been less than 100 % kind all the time.

But this kind of horrific slur - suggesting by implication that we are minions of the empire of hell should not be allowed.

Engage the arguments if you wish, but please do not treat others this way.

 

[Panin]

Hi Glory, you've fought he good fight. I hope this tiresome barage from the gates of hell upon the foundation of the Christian faith is not robbing you of the joy of Your slavation.

This is clearly inappropriate and I appeal to to the moderators in respect to this.

It is entirely unacceptable to resort to this kind of demonization. Fine, you do not agree with fds (and with me). And perhaps either or both of us have been less than 100 % kind all the time.

But this kind of horrific slur - suggesting by implication that we are minions of the empire of hell should not be allowed.

Engage the arguments if you wish, but please do not treat others this way.

I stated a fact. If that warrants moderator intervention so be it.

The arguement against eternal salvation is form the pit of hell, satanic. (but that doesn't mean I am saying you are one of satans minions) It is not christian and this is a christian forum, and if you dont like it, leave. You and francis, shad and Cornball, have had your time to breath heresy. Enough is enough.

As vj has left for a while it is now 4 against one with this crap. If moderators do feel the need to take action, I am hopeful they will do it as Christian Moderators in a Christian forum.

My appologies in advance to the moderators, however, I cannot contain myself any longer over this issue. I feel very strongly about it.

ANd remember; Francis is a teacher in an organisation that believes people should be dammed to hell for believing eternal security. Another FACT.

 

[glorydaz]

Why is there no condemnation?†Because (for) we have been set free from slavery to sin so that……what?

......so that we can walk according to the Spirit – do good works as the Spirit enables us.

That is why there is no condemnation – we are enabled to walk according to the Spirit. Notice that Paul did not say “there is no condemnation because you have mentally assented to the proposition that Jesus is Lord and has died for your sinsâ€.

What Paul says here is precisely what we need to know to make sense of what he has said in Romans 2, where he said, clearly, that eternal life goes to those who do good.

No, eternal life goes to those who put their trust in Jesus. There is no condemnation because Jesus took our condemnation on the cross.

And such were some of you....but ye are washed, sanctified, justified in the name of Jesus, and by the Spirit of God. All things are lawful...but not all things expedient. Our good deeds have nothing to do with it...it's the blood, and the blood alone. It's the work of the cross..not our works.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 12All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

glorydaz, you are correct to wonder, as you read Romans 2, how Paul can mean that people get eternal life based on works when, as per Romans 3, Paul points out the hopeless state of unregenerate man. But where you err is in assuming that Paul does not really mean he says in Romans 2, rather than waiting for the explanation in Romans 8, where it becomes clear that Jesus’ work results in the Spirit, which enables us to the good works we need as per Romans 2.

Sorry, Drew, but Paul is pointing out that works will not earn you what you seek until you repent and are born again. Man will be judged on his works, and no matter how good his works are, they will be wiped away by sin that hasn't yet been forgiven.

The mouth confesses...salvation results in righteousness...it's an after-effect of being saved...not a part of the salvation process.

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

God demonstrates His own love for us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved!"

f you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[glorydaz]

It seems to me that you would prefer not to speak about 2 Peter 2, but would rather change the subject and bounce around so there cannot be a moment where it begins to sink in...

Alright, let's look at it then.
There are obviously false teachers in their midst, and they're having a bad influence on the body.

9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Carnal men...not spiritual.

12But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

These are the false teachers...corrupt.
The pharisee types...they know the way but they won't go there themselves.
Read Num. 22:33 and you'll see this is speaking of the "donkey" who went out of the way.
Judas would be a good example. He knew the right way but went astray. He never did get over his love for the money purse.

15Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

These clean escaped ones are unstable in their faith...they've heard the gospel, but never committed. Is that anything new? A great many people fit in that mold. Sounds good for awhile, but they like their old life better.

18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

And this is where you think the people were saved and fell away?
So, that religion stuff sounded good for awhile, but they like their old life better.
They've been led away from the path, and instead of entering in, they've turned back.

20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[glorydaz]

Honestly, Drew. I don't know where you get such ideas. I never said someone with the Holy Spirit won't do good deeds.

Fair enough - I was not sufficiently careful and I will reword: "Gd: Paul nowhere, repreat nowhere, says that our good works, inspired by the Spirit, are not "good enough" to earn salvation."

I challenge you to find any text that suggest that redeemed man cannot manifest "good works" that are "good enough" to attain salvation.

I can predict what is going to happen - you will produce texts that seem to support your position, but you will fail to account for the fact that the writer is specifically talking about the unregenerate person.

Are you saying an unregenerate person can be inspired by the Spirit to do good works, and that will earn them salvation?

 

[glorydaz]

The fudamental problem with your position is this: Paul never says anything to the effect that the Romans 2 judgement is not for everyone - you read such a qualifier in, based on a belief that other texts, such as those in Romans 3, show that no one can be justified by their good works. The problem is that Paul never, ever, ever, ever denies that people cannot be justified by their works - he denies that they cannot be justified by doing the works of Torah. Hence my Ephesian 2 argument, which I should repost.

Before I even begin to discuss this with you any further, I have to ask how you can possibly think Eph. 2 has anything at all to do with the Torah. I did go back and read your post. Your reasoning makes absolutely no sense to me. The whole point of Eph. 2 is to show the joining of the Jew and Gentile.

9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

It's the same way you saw Romans 2...you didn't see that Paul was speaking about the gentiles under the natural law and the Jews under the stone law. Paul did come to preach to the gentiles, you know, and yet you keep turning everything he says back to the Jews. Maybe this is why it's so difficult to understand each other.

 

[glorydaz]

Gd: this idea that Paul does not mean what he says in Romans 2 because the Romans 2 material is "part of a bigger explanation" requires that you actually make a case about how that bigger picture legitimately allow us to see "salvation by good works" in Romans 2 as a purely hypothetical possibilty.

Do you believe you have made such a case. Why, specifically, do you think people cannot be saved by "good works". Before you reply, consider the possibility that texts that you think deny the possibility of salvation by good works are really denying salvation by doing the works of Torah.

He does mean what he says, and he makes the point very clear.
Paul had already told them man is without excuse...the Jews had the law, and the Gentiles had the natural law and conscience. But they will perish under the law...both alike.

At the great white throne judgment, man will stand before God and be judged.
Remember, Paul warned them they were building treasure against the day of wrath.

Those who have spent their whole life doing good will have all their good deeds weighed against their sin. If they are perfect (man is without excuse), they will get eternal life.
But, unfortunately, even one sin will outweigh every good work they have done.
They have no forgiveness for even one sin....unless they're in Christ.

Those who are in Christ, have no sin at all....Jesus bore our burden on the cross.
When it comes our time to stand before the Throne...Jesus will step forward and say, This one's mine.
Then we will be rewarded according to our faithfulness while on the earth. Some saints are called to do nothing but pray. No one will be able to say, you never did this or that...their work was to pray. Others will have been missionaries...on and on. According to our faithfulness in whatever He called us to do.

 

[glorydaz]

David is calling down God's judgment against the unbelieving nation of Israel.
Let them be blotted out of the book of the living.. let them not be written with the righteous...that's a far cry from being written in the Lamb's book of Life, and then blotted out.
As here...

According to you... Where is your evidence that there are "two" books of life in heaven, one for the Jews and one written for the Lamb???

There is no Jew or Greek with Christ. There is only one "book of Life", which obviously is a metaphor, not refering to some ACTUAL book!!!

Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them.

This refers to ANYONE, even once-righteous people who turn away from God...

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. Ez 18:24.

God is NOT a respecter of anyone, even Christians. Paul specifically warns against your attitudes in Romans and being cut off from the root, just as the original branches were cut off...

there is no security In Christ for the one who LEAVES Christ, thus, the Scriptures speak of NOT falling away...

As far as your other examples...they don't work for you, either. We have overcome the world already because Jesus overcame.

Sure they work...

We only overcame the world AS we actually overcome it... When we return to a life of sin, we have overcome nothing...

And...I'm sure not taking away or adding anything to the Bible or the Book of Revelation.

Your interpretation does - but even if you remain obstinate, the point is SOMEONE can be REMOVED FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE - which shows you are incorrect, yet again...

The "book of the living" is what David is referring to, and he prays God's enemies will not be written in with the righteous. For some reason, you wrote Book of life.

I never once said there was a book for the Jew and a book for the Lamb.
So, no....that is not "according" to me.

After Christ came there is no longer Jew of Greek...before that, you can bet there was.
The middle wall of partition was broken down when our Lord came.

Rev. speaks of books plus the Lamb's book of Life.
I'm glad you know whether it's an actual book or not...myself, I'm not that presumptuous as to assume one way or another. The Bible I hold in my hand is an actual book and it's the Word of God. :amen

I notice you go quite often to the OT when you want to prove the unrighteous will be judged.
Don't you know that's the good news of the cross.
Now we have a high priest who offered the perfect sacrifice and he only had to do it once.
Whoever believes in Him are no longer under condemnation.
He has cleansed us from all unrighteousness by His precious blood.

I do have to wonder why you are so adamant that people can lose their salvation.
It puts me in mind of a verse...let's see if I can find it...

Yep...here it is.

....for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

 

[glorydaz]

God is NOT a respecter of anyone, even Christians. Paul specifically warns against your attitudes in Romans and being cut off from the root, just as the original branches were cut off...

John 3:16

Thanks for pointing this out, Panin...I must have been skimming by the time it came up.

I can see our there is some misunderstanding concerning abiding in the vine.
We might need a thread on that.

 

[glorydaz]

Hi Glory, you've fought he good fight.

James 1:2
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; :amen

 

[glorydaz]

1. Paul says in Romans 2 that people will get eternal life based on persistence in doing good;

2. Nowhere in Romans 2 does Paul assert that he is talking about a purely hypothetical path to attaining salvation that zero persons will achieve;

Drew, you can't just take a verse out of it's context and keep it's meaning intact.

How about if I said, "Okay, you kids are going to go to the carnival on Friday night."

It's going to be a blast, and we'll eat a ton of icecream, popcorn, and candy.
You know, though, that you'll end up getting a stomach ache and you'll have to pay the price.'

Oops, it sure sounded good for a minute there.