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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Bible Study Satan Is The Wrath Of God
- Thread starter Squeaky
- Start date
Of course no one can know when Satan was created, but I do believe the chronology of Revelations 12 is after the seventh trumpet is sounded.
Since Satan is known as the god of this world and the prince of the powers of the air he has access to the throne of God to accuse the saints of God as Jesus makes intercession for them. Satan has no authority in heaven as he lost that privilege, but was cut down to earth and through his hatred and anger of God now uses his deceit to separate man from God by stealing the word of God from them thus stealing their faith in God.
All I can go by is Ezekiel 28:13-17; Isaiah 14:12-15 and Rev 12:10 to show that Satan's domain is in this world as he was cast down to it, but still has access to the throne of God to until the seventh trumpet sounds.
This is another topic as I really do not want to derail this one. I only wanted to explain why I believe Satan hasn't been completely kick out of heaven yet, but that his domain is here on earth.
I think that I understand what you're saying to a point, but Satan has already been kicked out of Heaven. Anyways, since God rules the heavens and the earth, are you saying that Satan rules everything of the world and not of God?
stovebolts
Member
I'll just throw this in there for historical sake.
There were two main schools of thought on how to live out the Torah and those schools were of Hillel and Shammai during the time Jesus walked the earth.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_and_Shammai
In the gospels, there are many instances where Jesus was asked his take on Torah. One could say they were asking him, "What school of thought do you ascribe to, Hillel or Shammai". On all occasions except that of divorce Hillel's school of thought most resembled the teachings of Jesus.
It is no wonder then that Paul, a student of the son of Hillel would so easily understand the gospel once he encountered our risen Lord on the road to Damascus.
As a side note, I have read much Jewish commentary and it blows my mind how some cannot see Jesus because their teachings mirror that of Jesus. I have concluded as with Saul that they themselves have not had an encounter with Jesus.
Razeontherock
Member
Thank you! Even the milk of the Word escapes those not yet born again.
And we are all equal before His eyes
But, one can not drink milk unless one is born again. There is carnal milk that nourishes the physical and Spiritual milk that nourishes the soul.
Jim Parker
Member
So it appears.
Luk 4:5-6 Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said to Him, “All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.
Originally, the rule over all the earth was given to man.
Gen 1:26-28 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
Dominion was transferred to Satan when Adam sinned.
Jhn 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin."
If someone is a slave to sin then he is a slave to Satan and any authority he had before he sinned was transferred to the one to whom he became enslaved.
Razeontherock
Member
Wow is that ever a concept that's not applied nearly enough!
ezra
Member
let me tell you my thoughts on squeaky his forum nick fits him well. he has took the word of God and twisted it Holy spirit is a angel .the devil is the wrath of God... God does not use satan to do his work . i have discussed several forms of beliefs and disagreed . but squeaky is way out in left field and that is where he belongs
Razeontherock
Member
There's some good stuff in this thread to discuss! I'm going to try to address it even though I can't get the multi-quote function working:
Mainly for the benefit of the OP because he may not have seen it yet, website protocol calls for NOT trying to "prove someone else wrong." I actually enjoy it when someone else does that for me, because I see the other option as continuing to make the same mistake and dying in my sins.
It's fine to state what we believe, why, and best of all why it's GOOD. We tend to leave that last bit out because we already see it, but we need to be sure to address the why it's good part.
Mainly for the benefit of the OP because he may not have seen it yet, website protocol calls for NOT trying to "prove someone else wrong." I actually enjoy it when someone else does that for me, because I see the other option as continuing to make the same mistake and dying in my sins.
It's fine to state what we believe, why, and best of all why it's GOOD. We tend to leave that last bit out because we already see it, but we need to be sure to address the why it's good part.
Razeontherock
Member
Good stuff in this thread to discuss part 2:
This is worth examining. There's plenty of accepted doctrine that's pretty foul. As one example, I hope everyone agrees that Dante's Inferno should have always been kept as fiction? Now the idea that God created Lucifer who fell and became satan isn't only in Paradise Lost, but maybe it's also a false idea that should be re-examined? We certainly shouldn't focus on darkness too much, but we shouldn't give the devil too much credit either. The Jewish perspective on this gives people a healthy outlook that has no fear re: Satan (the adversary) And Jesus speaks of "overcoming." I know everybody loves to hate on WoF (Word of Faith) but Kenneth Hagin had an experience that speaks to this:
in the middle of the night he woke up startled, and saw satan himself sitting on the foot of his bed. He said "oh, it's only you," and went back to sleep.
If satan is only doing what God created him to do as God created him to do it, doesn't that make things easier? Either way, I think satan is far less of a big deal than many Christians have made him out to be.
On the side of saying satan is a fallen creature and not as God intended I see two Scriptures:
Jude 1:6
Luke 10:18
I'm not sure either of these are clear enough for us to pinpoint?
Anyway this is probably not so central to the Faith that we need to be dogmatic about it. The OP made a revised statement, that satan is "made in the image of the wrath of God." I don't know what to make of that yet, but I find it much more palatable than the original idea as stated in the thread title, which I can only dismiss out of hand.
This is worth examining. There's plenty of accepted doctrine that's pretty foul. As one example, I hope everyone agrees that Dante's Inferno should have always been kept as fiction? Now the idea that God created Lucifer who fell and became satan isn't only in Paradise Lost, but maybe it's also a false idea that should be re-examined? We certainly shouldn't focus on darkness too much, but we shouldn't give the devil too much credit either. The Jewish perspective on this gives people a healthy outlook that has no fear re: Satan (the adversary) And Jesus speaks of "overcoming." I know everybody loves to hate on WoF (Word of Faith) but Kenneth Hagin had an experience that speaks to this:
in the middle of the night he woke up startled, and saw satan himself sitting on the foot of his bed. He said "oh, it's only you," and went back to sleep.
If satan is only doing what God created him to do as God created him to do it, doesn't that make things easier? Either way, I think satan is far less of a big deal than many Christians have made him out to be.
On the side of saying satan is a fallen creature and not as God intended I see two Scriptures:
Jude 1:6
Luke 10:18
I'm not sure either of these are clear enough for us to pinpoint?
Anyway this is probably not so central to the Faith that we need to be dogmatic about it. The OP made a revised statement, that satan is "made in the image of the wrath of God." I don't know what to make of that yet, but I find it much more palatable than the original idea as stated in the thread title, which I can only dismiss out of hand.
ezra
Member
how about false statement for starts... what w need to know about the devil is he is our adversary like a roaring lion walking about seeking whom he may devour .the thief (devil) come to kill steal and destroy
stovebolts
Member
If God is for us, who can be against us?
This doesnt mean we wont be tempted, but rather it means this. God wont allow us to go through anything that he hasn't allotted us an escape from. Satan still whispers in our ear, but we have the Holy Spirit living inside us, comforting us, guiding us.
I dont give Satan the credit he demands, but just like being on the top of a roof, I have a healthy respect for him. I dont fear him because I know like Job, God sets the boundaries and as His child, He has my best interest in mind, even if its painful at the time. Jesus didnt like it, and blood came out of His sweat. But He trusted His Father, and we can trust ours, regardless of the circumstance.
Did Satan fall? Other Angel's have, so I dont see why Satan couldn't have. But I dont see it in the traditional sense and I tend to lean more toward Jewish thought than modern Christianity. By modern I mean the past thousand or so years.
stovebolts
Member
John 8:44 King James Version (KJV)
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Pretty heavy words...
When was "the beginning"
When was the first lie spoken?
ezra
Member
the beginning would have to be in the garden the lie was not so much a lie but a question has God said or did he say???????? either way we as Christians should be well aware of satan .i believe paul wrote we are not to be ignorant of his devices ....... to this day he uses others and old saying in the garden has God said ? still lives today
ezrider
Member
When the serpent said surely YOU SHALL NOT DIE.
Razeontherock
Member
Interesting points! Does this mean in satan's beginning?
He is the "father of lies." Could he be acting in accord with his God-given nature and have that said about him?
Not really concrete answers ... like nailing jello to a wall? Lol
Razeontherock
Member
That's my thought too. I don't see when there was an earlier occasion to lie. In my experience, THE most common peer pressure phrase is "go ahead, it won't kill you"
ezra
Member
3 Now the serpent was the most cunning of all the wild animals that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You can’t eat from any tree in the garden’?”
2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit from the trees in the garden. 3 But about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God said, ‘You must not eat it or touch it, or you will die.’”
4 “No! You will not die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “In fact, God knows that when[a] you eat it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God,[b] knowing good and evil.”
deception and it still lives today
2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit from the trees in the garden. 3 But about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God said, ‘You must not eat it or touch it, or you will die.’”
4 “No! You will not die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “In fact, God knows that when[a] you eat it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God,[b] knowing good and evil.”
deception and it still lives today
stovebolts
Member
Let's look at what Eve said in verse 3.
3 But about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God said, ‘You must not eat it or touch it, or you will die.’”
Now let's look at what God said in Chapter 2
17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
Eve says that if one even touches it, you will die, yet God only said they would die if they ate it. In essence, she added to what God said. But isnt that just human nature and isnt that exactly what the religious elite do?
If we look back at the words of Jesus in John 8:44 , we see Jesus is making a statement about truth, and non truth. Neither a lie, truth, or adding to the simple truth is truth. When Eve said God said that if she touched it, she would die, that wasnt truth.
When we look at scripture, we see that the serpent is a created animal from verse 3, yet it is widely accepted that Satan in an Angel, as portrayed in Job, Matthew and Revelation.
If Satan is an Angel, why does scripture say that the serpent was a created animal?
Is it then possible that Satan was orchestrating this from above? Is it possible Satan was whispering in both the ear of Eve and the serpent? Is it possible that Satan is represented as a serpent as is depicted in so many Ancient Near Eastern texts where serpents and dragons are viewed as Satan?
Just some random thoughts that I ponder and for those who dont see thiscthecway i do, I'm certainly not digging in my heels because honestly, I enjoy pondering these rabbit holes.