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Satan,Sin, Angels, Man

Chopper said:
tempts no one.
1:14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.
1:15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
1:16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers.
1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change."
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Chopper, here is a Scripture study on the word "tempt".
 
smaller said:
"he himself tempts no one."

There are many "seeming" surface contradictions in the scriptures. The above being one, which is in fact exactly "countered" by another scripture.

How so?:

Genesis 22:1
And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

When faced with these surface contradictions we should be able to see that both statements are fully TRUE, yet without understandings, they will be in seeming conflict/contradiction.

So tell me my friend, how would you propose to solve this riddle?

I will tell you in advance that it is easily solved/entirely harmonized. And there are many others, likewise in conflict on the surface.


Was the "deceiver" in the garden good? Was the knowledge of "evil" good?

It is only when we see Gods Hands upon these matters can they be so. Personally I would not brand the deceiver/deception of himself, good. Nor the knowledge of evil, good. I recognize that in Gods Hands even these can and do work for the good when taking into account the Sovereignty of God upon them.


First of all we should recognize that the "entity" being spoken to WAS in the Garden of Eden.

Ezekiel 28: (KJV)
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

There are only 3 cast members in said Garden. God, Man and the tempter/deceiver. We know the identity of the first 2, God and Man (Adam and Eve.) So who might Lucifer be if we connect this very simple dot? Uh, yeah, the deceiver, the tempter. And this is pinpointed, showing that it was/is Lucifer that weakened the nations and:

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Can this be anyone but Satan? We know that the unbelievers are prisoners of the god of this world who blinds the minds of them. 2 Cor. 4:4. They ARE in Satan's prison, locked up with him reigning over their minds. Acts 26:18 shows us that the unbelievers ARE 'under the power of SATAN.'

Paul's dictate from Jesus was to TURN people from that power, of Satan. This is the power that we are TURNED from by faith in God in Christ, to REIGN over same. Each believer is to so reign over this enemy.

The great difficulty is always going to be "where is our enemy?" In order to reign over an enemy that enemy is "under our own feet." Romans 16:20, just as this enemy and his own are under Jesus' Feet, as a footstool, being made so by God. (too many scriptural citings to even begin this study in this thread, but a short version, here: )

1 Corinthians 15:24
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Those who think they have 'the power' of freewill might best give it up to Jesus instead because that's where we're all Headed.

Do we see HOLY attached to Lucifer or Satan, the tempter, the deceiver anywhere in Isaiah or anywhere else in the scriptures? That term is not to be found and does not exist.

Satan was set as a covering, a covering of deception in the flesh, in order to KILL all natural mankind via sin. And yes, this does serve Gods Exact Purposes for that entity and his class of associates.

But because these are unseen, and few believers are even able to connect the sin/deception/lusts and eventual death of their own natural person to the workings of the deceiver in their own flesh, they will not perceive these matters. And in fact they CAN not because of the imposed blindness that bad actor brings.

Yet to some, it will be openly transparent, when they "tell the truth." 1 John 1:8, 1 John 3:8, the entire chapter of Romans 7, Romans 9, Romans 11, 2 Cor. 12:7, 2 Tim. 2:20-21 ALL point directly to this connection of the deceiver, the tempter in the flesh, to SIN indwelling the flesh.

So here, right here, you have your KEY to unlocking how it is that God tempted Abraham, because it was not "just Abraham" involved. When you see it, you will have harmony. But to see it with Abraham one must see it for their own SIN in the flesh as of the TEMPTER first or they CAN NOT SEE it.

Guaranteed.



No. Holy Angels can not change their stripes nor can wicked deceiving angels change their stripes. They were both made according to Gods Purposes. And one entity class of them can not tell the truth, are deceivers and killers, by Divine Design.

Revelation 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.


The account of said war is here:

Rev. 12:
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The stars that were drawn from heaven are/were not Satan's messengers. They were ALL cast out. And INTO the "earth" not on it, IN it. Satan is also termed the "prince of the power of the air, the spirit of disobedience." Air is in exact reference to our "thought" realm, as signified in Mark 4 and in the other seed parables. They are the fowls of the air who 'SOIL' our thoughts via their various deceptions and they STEAL Gods Words from minds and hearts. They are the "real" robbers and thieves in the scriptures. Not robbers and thieves we see with our eyes.

When Jesus said this He was absolutely telling us a fact:

John 10:8
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

Unfortunately when Jesus said "the sheep did not hear them" Jesus is speaking of the thieves and robbers stealing the Word from hearts, not being heard, not Himself. ALL who came before Jesus were thieves and robbers because the THIEVES stole from every single persons heart prior, and since! The thieves and robbers were/are INTERNAL in ALL flesh.

That deceiver was cast "into" Adam from day 1 of man, as the deceiver, the tempter, the blinding party in the flesh/hearts of all mankind.

Never HOLY.

No one can make the tempter in the flesh behave OR make "only good decisions." It is impossible. Paul ascribes to this fact many times in many ways, showing that the sin indwelling his own flesh, the evil present with him had a mind of it's OWN. A resisting mind. Romans 7:7-25. In there he terms the sin indwelling his own flesh "no longer I," twice, for emphasis.

It's time to recognize that we ALL have works of darkness to cast off. And these are courtesy of our enemies in the flesh. We are even advised HOW TO cast off these works of DARKNESS in very exacting fashions, in Romans 13.
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First of all my friend, lets look at the word "tempted" Strongs from e-Sword....
πειράζω
peirazō
pi-rad'-zo
From G3984; to test (objectively), that is, endeavor, scrutinize, entice, discipline: - assay, examine, go about, prove, tempt (-er), try.

So, you quoted Genesis 22:1 "God did tempt Abraham" as we just saw, the word really means test. God tested Abraham....There is nothing in the Godhead that evil can entice. There is nothing in the Godhead that responds to evil other than stamping it out. Therefore, God does not induce anyone to do evil. Since God does not respond to evil, He doesn't want us to respond to evil. We are made in His likeness or image.
 
Excuse the length as I tried to shorten this and you can go to my website to read the full article I wrote on Satan.

The name Satan comes from a Hebrew word sah-TAHN which means adversary as in signifying an enemy, and an accuser, father of lies.

Satan was created perfect in all his ways with beauty, wisdom and freewill. God placed him as the guardian or protector over the throne of God in heaven. He was entrusted with many possessions and found much favor in the Lord.

God created the earth and saw that it was good and he took Lucifer from Gods Holy Mountain and set him over the Garden of Eden as a covering cherub to watch over and enjoy all that was of God. As Lucifer was set in the garden iniquity was soon found in him as he defiled Gods sanctuary through pride in his own beauty and deceit as he wanted all that was of Gods here on earth to be his own as he tried to make his throne above the angels and be God.

Because iniquity was found in him God cast him and those angels who chose to follow him out of his holy mountain and cast them all down to earth to be trampled of all nations. The only reference in scripture that denotes there being one third of the angels falling with Satan is in Revelation 12:9.
(Ref: Read Ezekiel Chapter 28 Prince of Tyrus–dual referent)

Revelation 12:4; Ezekiel 28:13-17; Isaiah 14:12-15

Remember, Satan is a spirit and not flesh and blood so when he was cut down to the ground it was not literal, but symbolic that his so called kingdom would be that of a lesser magnitude than Gods kingdom. Satan is the total opposite of the love that God represents so whatever good that God does Satan does the opposite. Since Satan is known as the god of this world and the prince of the powers of the air he has access to the throne of God to accuse the saints of God as Jesus makes intercession for them. Satan has no authority in heaven as he lost that privilege, but was cut down to earth and through his hatred and anger of God now uses his deceit to separate man from God by stealing the word of God from them thus stealing their faith in God.

Matthew 25:40; 2Corinthians 4:4; Rev 12:10

We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the ruler of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Satan moves to and fro on the earth and has access to the throne of God to accuse the brethren. God made man in his image and breathed life into him. Man was created innocent, but also given free will, until Satan deceived Eve into eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil which she also gave to her husband Adam to eat of. Satan is very cunning and should be respected in the sense that he can do whatever it takes to separate us from God as his spiritual wickedness is increased through out the nations.

Ephesians 6:11, 12; Job 1:6, 7; Matthew 4:8; Ephesians 2:2

God has cut himself off from the world because of Satan’s reign of deceit and lies whom turned men’s hearts from the love of God as man devised unto their own imaginations and separated themselves from Gods will to their own will as they set up their own gods within themselves as being their own god. Satan has controlled the nations of this world from the beginning of mans creation using his angels (demons) placed in the souls of those world leaders who have turned away from God to reign with the power of Satan’s control working in them and through them as they seek out the riches of their nations by crushing those under their feet. God destroyed the earth once, but saved a remnant in Noah’s family and even today saves a remnant of those who are truly his that Satan will never separate from the love of God.

Jeremiah 17:5-10; Genesis 6:5-8; Genesis 9:11

Satan has always challenged the authority of God through counterfeiting everything God does. He uses his angels (demons) to help accomplish his goals by deceiving the minds of those without knowledge and truth of Gods word. This is why bad things, even death, happen to people who seem on the outside to be good people, but void of God on the inside. Satan is the father of lies and can transform himself into anything he chooses like the serpent in the Garden of Eden and an angel of light that deceives the world. Satan was a created spirit without form so in order for him to deceive the nations he has to use something of substance to accomplish this and this is why it is so important to learn how to discern the spirits that are out there whether they be of God or of Satan as his spirit can enter into anyone he chooses if they are not of God, (Ref: read 2Peter Chapter 2).

John 8:44; Genesis 3:4,5; 2Corinthians 11:14, 15; 1John 4:1-4
 
Chopper said:
First of all my friend, lets look at the word "tempted" Strongs from e-Sword....
πειράζω
peirazō
pi-rad'-zo
From G3984; to test (objectively), that is, endeavor, scrutinize, entice, discipline: - assay, examine, go about, prove, tempt (-er), try.

So, you quoted Genesis 22:1 "God did tempt Abraham" as we just saw, the word really means test. God tested Abraham....There is nothing in the Godhead that evil can entice. There is nothing in the Godhead that responds to evil other than stamping it out. Therefore, God does not induce anyone to do evil. Since God does not respond to evil, He doesn't want us to respond to evil. We are made in His likeness or image.
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I like to quote other versions as well chopper but the KJV IS reliable, as tempt.

I also pointed to:

Matthew 6:13
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Reason dictates that IF God tempts no person, then this prayer is completely and utterly useless.

And, after that I got quite well into how this works. Which obviously zoomed on by the conversation.
 
for_his_glory said:
God has cut himself off from the world
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It wasn't a half bad overall account til I got to the above. Maybe some revisions are in order?

Eph. 4:
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
 
Just to stick one more fork in this matter of God not tempting anyone we might observe this scriptural fact as well:

Matthew 4:1
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Mark 1:
12 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness.
13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan;

Luke 4:
4 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
2 Being forty days tempted of the devil.

There is simply no way to isolate The Spirit away from leading this matter of temptation.

Reason again dictates that we are to walk a similar path as Jesus.

The Spirit assuredly LEADS us to confront the tempter and the tempter does tempt. And conversely God does deal with the tempter differently than with His Own.

IF temptation of the tempter transpires "internally" then believers might want to examine this particular intercourse of actions, between God and the tempter.

What we WILL find in such examinations is that God DOES tempt the tempter to disobey. And, the tempter DOES respond by resisting.

A similar discourse can be found with believers who think God is not the Author of confusion. 1 Cor. 14:33. But we can clearly see that God confused the language of the people at the tower of Babel. Gen. 11

IF we see Gods interactions with the TEMPTER in the people, it makes perfect sense and perfect harmony. BOTH statements CAN be completely affirmed as TRUE. God does tempt the tempter in man. God does confuse the tempter in man.

Not all is as it appears on the surface in these types of engagements. What is TRUE for us is a REVERSE true for the TEMPTER and his minions. There can be two entirely outcomes from the same Word. There can be TWO conflicting statements and they can both be fully true and harmonized like a beautiful symphony from Heaven.

Most surface contradictions can easily be harmonized when "all" the parties to the drama are on the reasoning/examination table. Believers who come to the table of reason with half a loaf are NOT going to 'get it.'
 
Will go on with a bit more reasoning with the scriptures.

IF God created evil, (He did, there is no question whatsover about it)

and

IF God created an evil anti-Christ spirit that has multiple purposes in Gods creation, that being primarily not to leave Gods children stranded forever in wet dust piles by killing the natural body

and IF God does all of this that we might come to know HIS ETERNAL MERCY, then God imho is entirely justified in doing so. Even further than this. IF, by His Prevailing Power over all things that evil and Satan "serves" His Perfect Purposes and IF there is A Perfect Outcome, which there will be, it can be no other way, then God IS entirely worthy of ALL PRAISE, GLORY and HONOR, forever.

A Great and Glorious God, indeed, who can make such adversity serve His Purposes.

The lesson for believers in these matters is this. God WILL have His Mercy! It's a lesson always learned the hard way.


Isaiah 16:5
And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

IF the devil and his messengers, IF the evil of this present life pushes us headlong into Gods Mercy in Christ Jesus, then these instruments have served His Purposes.

Paul tells us this is exactly how it is in Romans 11:32

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
 
smaller said:
Just to stick one more fork in this matter of God not tempting anyone we might observe this scriptural fact as well:

Matthew 4:1
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Mark 1:
12 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness.
13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan;

Luke 4:
4 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
2 Being forty days tempted of the devil.

There is simply no way to isolate The Spirit away from leading this matter of temptation.

Reason again dictates that we are to walk a similar path as Jesus.

The Spirit assuredly LEADS us to confront the tempter and the tempter does tempt. And conversely God does deal with the tempter differently than with His Own.
Christ was not tempted (tested) to see if He would sin. Christ was tested for us to prove to us of whom we could put our trust into. He then begins His ministry of the Gospel of the Kingdom of the Heavens.
IF temptation of the tempter transpires "internally" then believers might want to examine this particular intercourse of actions, between God and the tempter.

What we WILL find in such examinations is that God DOES tempt the tempter to disobey. And, the tempter DOES respond by resisting.

A similar discourse can be found with believers who think God is not the Author of confusion. 1 Cor. 14:33. But we can clearly see that God confused the language of the people at the tower of Babel. Gen. 11

IF we see Gods interactions with the TEMPTER in the people, it makes perfect sense and perfect harmony. BOTH statements CAN be completely affirmed as TRUE. God does tempt the tempter in man. God does confuse the tempter in man.

Not all is as it appears on the surface in these types of engagements. What is TRUE for us is a REVERSE true for the TEMPTER and his minions. There can be two entirely outcomes from the same Word. There can be TWO conflicting statements and they can both be fully true and harmonized like a beautiful symphony from Heaven.

Most surface contradictions can easily be harmonized when "all" the parties to the drama are on the reasoning/examination table. Believers who come to the table of reason with half a loaf are NOT going to 'get it.'
Click to expand...
 
It would be very nice if you would use the quote feature Douglas. Just asking. Thanks.

Douglas said:
Christ was not tempted (tested) to see if He would sin.
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Didn't say He was. In the case of Jesus' temptation it is the DEVIL, SATAN, who is judged and condemned by that temptation of God Himself in the flesh. This is the STAKE of Gods FAIR judgment that will put Satan and his minions in the eternal flames when the time comes to do so. God knows this. The devils know it. We should as well:

Matthew 8:29
And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Christ was tested for us to prove to us of whom we could put our trust into. He then begins His ministry of the Gospel of the Kingdom of the Heavens.
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I don't doubt that God in Christ is trustworthy. The trials and temptation (not a test, but temptation) of Jesus served many purposes. One of those purposes was to condemn Satan and his messengers. Even though it was God who made them to begin with.

They were made as castaway utilities on the Left Hand of God. Or, as some of my believing friends term them, sock puppets. Or others, evil machinery with an expiration date.

If you were God and you wanted to have your children learn hard lessons, then why not place them UNDER such elemental spirits in the flesh to struggle against? That's about as accurate of a picture there is in my eyes. We learn to love in adversity and without the expectation of reward.

Galatians 4:
4 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
 
smaller said:
f you were God and you wanted to have your children learn hard lessons, then why not place them UNDER such elemental spirits in the flesh to struggle against? That's about as accurate of a picture there is in my eyes. We learn to love in adversity and without the expectation of reward.
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I agree and have already said that.. That was the whole purpose of a corruptible fleshy body, to experience the rewards of sin (pain, heartache and suffering). God says that he did not plan for this body to be a permanent possession, but a seed planted to produce a glorious body. (1 Cor. 15: 35-50).
 
smaller said:
Galatians 4:
4 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Click to expand...
The tutors and governors was the Law (The whole law) not just the 10 commandment. And we were under bondage of the law until the Father sent forth that in which He had tutored us and had prepared us for,, that took us out of the bondage and elements of this world.
 
Douglas Summers said:
The tutors and governors was the Law (The whole law) not just the 10 commandment. And we were under bondage of the law until the Father sent forth that in which He had tutored us and had prepared us for,, that took us out of the bondage and elements of this world.
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The Law is more interesting that just that. The Law was always for sinners. Satan is also a "sinner." 1 Tim. 1:9, 1 John 3:8.

Jesus showed us that Satan "reacts" also, where the Word is sown, and enters hearts to steal, deceive, destroy, and ultimately, to kill.

We can expect when we engage the law, the tempter will arise in the flesh, to resist, just as Paul shows us in Romans 7:7-25, 2 Cor. 12:7, Gal. 4:14, Gal. 5:17

The Word, the Law does not engage only man. Mark 4:15

And therein is the intention of the letter of law, to raise up that wicked evil anti-Christ pharaoh (Ezekiel 29:3) and bring him to power, progressively, to his end. 1 Cor. 15:56. The Spirit of the Law can NOT be fulfilled by that evil one or his own. Romans 13:8-10. <- This is Gods Instrument to tell "who is who."
 
Douglas Summers said:
Satan (formerly Lucifer) The highest of the order of the Seraphim was created by God. (God did not create him evil). There are several Scriptures that give us understanding of Lucifer's fall (Ezek. 28:11-19) (Isai. 14:12-14). Lucifer was the first ruler under God of His creation before the appearance of man. And by PRIDE (notice the middle letter in PR"I"DE is "I") he fell from his exalted position. Angels were Holy beings created by God. They did not have a physical temporal body. When Lucifer by pride wanted to put himself above God (for he was beautiful and his voice was like a flute, a sound of beauty) He lifted himself above God to rule over all things, he rebelled and persuaded 1/3 of the angels to rebel also. And there was a war in heaven and Lucifer became Satan, an adversary of God and all his creations. If Satan could not rule over his Master, then Satan would destroy it so no one would have it. Satan was the first sinner and murderer. and father of it. It was Satan that fell, not Adam. for Satan was a Holy being, Adam was not.

SIN is the transgression of the Law of God, (or rebellion against God's will). Adam was not born with sin, nor was he a Holy being. The Angels and Satan being Holy did not have a corruptible body. They could not feel the effects of sin and how it would decay and grieve the flesh with pain and sorrow by the consequences of Sin or disobedience to God's will. So God made man in His image with a corruptible body to receive the penalty of disobedience. (Gen. 3:14-19) It was God's plan to make man in a corruptible body to qualify for a Spiritual body. (1 Cor. 15: 35-57)
When God made man, man was not perfect, except his body (there were no birth defects), but man was created INNOCENT., and with an adult mind. God made man,ruler over His creation even giving him the free will to name the species and plant kingdom of his own mind.. So man was not born with sin, but He was made a little lower than the angles for a while with free will (Heb. 2:5-8)
God was never surprised what man would do, for he prepared and made man for that purpose to refine the soul. But he was many times disappointed..
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Where does Satan fall?
 
My Dear Sister FHG. That is a wonderful assessment of that old slew foot snake. I decided not to call you "Glory Girl" because you might not like that. I'll be a bit more formal befitting your wisdom and knowledge. It seemed that I was convicted not to call you something you might not like.

I'd like to know where you got the information in your first four paragraphs. It certainly is interesting.
 
smaller said:
I like to quote other versions as well chopper but the KJV IS reliable, as tempt.

I also pointed to:

Matthew 6:13
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Reason dictates that IF God tempts no person, then this prayer is completely and utterly useless.

And, after that I got quite well into how this works. Which obviously zoomed on by the conversation.
Click to expand...

This is why I like our relationship Smaller. I don't agree with your view of the word tempt. You and I can disagree without insulting each other. I love you lots Smaller, you're a good man of God and I'm honored to correspond with you.

Here's what I think Matthew 6:13 is saying. This is Coppers paraphrase, Deliver me from evil so I won't have to prove that I belong to Your Kingdom.
 
smaller said:
I like to quote other versions as well chopper but the KJV IS reliable, as tempt.

I also pointed to:

Matthew 6:13
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Reason dictates that IF God tempts no person, then this prayer is completely and utterly useless.

And, after that I got quite well into how this works. Which obviously zoomed on by the conversation.
Click to expand...

This is why I like our relationship Smaller. I don't agree with your view of the word tempt. You and I can disagree without insulting each other. I love you lots Smaller, you're a good man of God and I'm honored to correspond with you.

Here's what I think Matthew 6:13 is saying. This is Coppers paraphrase, Deliver me from evil so I won't have to prove that I belong to Your Kingdom.
 
Chopper said:
This is why I like our relationship Smaller. I don't agree with your view of the word tempt. You and I can disagree without insulting each other. I love you lots Smaller, you're a good man of God and I'm honored to correspond with you.

Here's what I think Matthew 6:13 is saying. This is Coppers paraphrase, Deliver me from evil so I won't have to prove that I belong to Your Kingdom.
Click to expand...

"lead us not into temptation" is a prayer made to God. So, yes, God can do that.

James is also right. The problem we as believers will always have in these matters is that we are blinded to the reality of evil present with us, and that evil IS courtesy of the tempter and his minions. We didn't know it for the most part prior to salvation. Some see it even less after.

If anyone "is led" to understand how Mark 4:15 does actually work, they will be led to examine their own evil thoughts, inclusive of "internal temptations" in the light of that fact of Jesus. They will find another cast of characters operating 'within' man.

This present life is not just about things we see with our eyes.

When we are saved, we are not saved from ourselves. We are saved from the devil and his messengers. But that does not mean we are detached from their exercises in the flesh.

And you know regardless of how we see these matters, it is against my faith in Christ, seeing as His Word has led me to see, to condemn any believer. I see things beneath the surface that allow judgment to also remain, but not upon us who have called upon Him to save.

Sin, Satan and evil are the most difficult topics in the scriptures fwiw. Theodicy will usually be where the long term students of the Word focus. Our believing life starts out because we want to be better for God in Christ. Then we want to be better for others in close proximity. Eventually that expands even further, as our little piece of grain/faith grows in the dirt.

In the ways of allegory, our bodies are the dirt/dust/earth. The tempter and his messengers are the dung, the deception/lusts/temptations in the body/mind. It is these same who are also TARES in the body. His Word is Light, of course.

These are the conditions of planting of the Lords Seed for His Harvest. 1 Cor. 15:43-49. The conditions can not be changed. They are set by our Maker.
 
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