Satan,Sin, Angels, Man

[JLB]

That "hardline fact" that the flesh, and more accurately, the evil conscience behind the input of lusts, deceptions, temptations and ultimately the death of our flesh MEANS that those workings ARE in all people.

Paul makes a distinction between the inward man, and his physical body.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Romans 7:21-23

• When we are born again, we become alive spiritually, as we are no longer dead in trespasses and sins.

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), Ephesians 2:1-5

• However, sin remains in the body.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Romans 7:21-24

• The remedy that God gives us is the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.


... the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

• So now, our debt, is to the Spirit, to walk in the Spirit. [Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh...]
• To set our minds on the things of the Spirit.
• To be led by the Spirit.

That by the Spirit, we ourselves would "put to death", to mortify, to render incapable the deeds of the flesh where sin and evil continues to be present with us. [if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.]

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14



We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18


JLB

 

[smaller]

Paul makes a distinction between the inward man, and his physical body.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Romans 7:21-23

He certainly does. He shows us that sin dwelling in the flesh has an adverse mind of it's own. And that, internally, there is in fact a WAR transpiring.

Are we warring with chemicals in the flesh? OR the adversity of a factual internal evil conscience?

• The remedy that God gives us is the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

There is no remedy for the flesh. It is against the Spirit and contrary to the Spirit. The Spirit allows NO remedy to that which it is against and contrary to. Gal. 5:17

God condemns the evil conscience, period. As well as condemns sin dwelling in the flesh. Romans 8:3.

The remedy is only death. Accounted as death in the now for those believers alive in flesh, and eventually as a reality of physical death, because of the presence of sin dwelling in the flesh.

This accounting however does not "change" the flesh into something other than what it factually is. The lusts/deceptions/temptations of sin dwelling IN the flesh remain in the flesh regardless of it's exposure on the outside, as does an evil conscience, remain in ALL. Romans 7:21.

God does not, will not, justify sin dwelling in the flesh NOR does God ever justify an evil conscience. And we all have BOTH, regardless.

Bullet points trying to justify these internal workings are only looking at one side of the equations where there are in fact TWO sides in play.

You'll never hear the Apostles asking God in Christ to justify their evil conscience either. But will condemn this working in themselves, quick as can be.

 

[JLB]

Gal. 3:22 also tells us that scripture has concluded ALL are under sin, period. That conclusion isn't changing on the basis of morality or obedience.

22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Galatians 3:22-24

The scripture has confined [past tense] all under sin, but now to those who believe, are freely justified, so that we have been set free from the law of sin, and now we have dominion over sin.

We are under grace, not under sin.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2



JLB

 

[JLB]

He certainly does. He shows us that sin dwelling in the flesh has an adverse mind of it's own.

Yes so now we put to death, the deeds of the flesh, by the Spirit. Romans 8:13



JLB

 

[smaller]

Yes so now we put to death, the deeds of the flesh, by the Spirit. Romans 8:13

JLB

Paul landed in the opposite place that "most" believers are vainly trying to get to:

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

 

[JLB]

There is no remedy for the flesh. It is against the Spirit and contrary to the Spirit. The Spirit allows NO remedy to that which it is against and contrary to. Gal. 5:17

The remedy for the sin in our flesh, is for us to put to death the deeds of the flesh, by the Spirit.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-13

You never seem to acknowledge this part...if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body.

You have never quoted this verse nor discussed it or acknowledged it, nor have you ever addressed it.

You only seem to keep saying... the flesh is contrary to the Spirit.

Yes I know the flesh is contrary to the spirit, which is why we need to put to death it's manifestations and workings, BY THE SPIRIT.

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh. Romans 8:5

• Set your mind on the things of the Spirit.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Paul landed in the opposite place that "most" believers are vainly trying to get to:

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Yes Paul placed himself at the top of the list of sinners that Jesus Christ came into the world to save.
Paul place himself in the category of the worst of sinners that needed to be saved, by Jesus Christ.

Paul was saved from being a sinner, and He condemned those who practice the works of the flesh, and sin.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:15-16

again

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
Romans 8:12-13



JLB

 

[smaller]

Yes Paul placed himself at the top of the list of sinners that Jesus Christ came into the world to save.
Paul place himself in the category of the worst of sinners that needed to be saved, by Jesus Christ.

Indeed. Even as a "present tense" after salvation statement of FACT, "I am." 1 Tim. 1:15.

I don't really see you rushing into that conclusion quite frankly, and trying vainly to run the opposite direction than where Paul takes this matter.

 

[JLB]

Indeed. Even as a "present tense" after salvation statement of FACT, "I am." 1 Tim. 1:15.

Present tense with the phrase: "Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners."

Paul places himself in the category of sinners who Jesus Christ came into the world to save.

We are saved and are no longer in the world as sinners, and are transferred into the Kingdom of God.

If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. John 15:19

I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
John 17:15


Do you believe that Paul was a sinner, and of the devil?

He who sins is of the devil... 1 John 3:8


JLB

 

[JLB]

I don't really see you rushing into that conclusion quite frankly, and trying vainly to run the opposite direction than where Paul takes this matter.

Paul plainly stated that those who walk in the flesh will die.

13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:13


Those who give themselves over to sin will die.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:15-16

If you obey the sin dwelling in your flesh, it will lead you to death.

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12

Those who endure the temptations of the flesh will receive the crown of life.

But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. James 1:14


Those who live in sin, to practice it's evil desires, are of the devil.

He who sins is of the devil. 1 John 3:8


Those who keep themselves, the devil does not touch them. 1 John 5:18


I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
John 17:15



JLB

 

[smaller]

Present tense with the phrase: "Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners."

Paul places himself in the category of sinners who Jesus Christ came into the world to save.

Indeed, even claiming to be the chief of same, present tense, after salvation.

We also know that Paul, after salvation had the following:

Lustful, against the law thoughts. Romans 7:7-13
Paul also said "I do" things I hate. Romans 7:15. Not "did" but "do."
Paul said "I do" evil. Romans 7:19. Not "did" but "do."

Do any of these statements of fact lead us to believe we do otherwise?

Uh, no. These statements of FACT lead us directly to the conclusion that sin indwelling the flesh has an adverse mind of IT'S OWN. And Paul says exactly this in Romans 7:17-20.

Paul wasn't lying, but told the truth.

Paul took this condemnation of God in Christ, the condemnation of sin dwelling in his own flesh. Romans 8:3. He did not ever try to justify himself! And could not do so.

When Paul came before God in Christ, he came HONESTLY with flesh that was contrary to the Spirit and against the Spirit. Gal. 5:17. He did not try to justify his own flesh. And by his actions showed he did things he hated and did evil.

So, where do we stand on this measure of honesty? Do we claim otherwise?

I can't in all honesty, go there, and will follow the honesty of Paul to Paul's conclusions.

I also know and see HOW Paul made these conclusions by looking at Paul's own statement of fact here:

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

This shows an entity, NOT PAUL, that was IN the flesh of Paul.

We should be entirely able to make the identical conclusion when we realize that internal temptation IS in fact of the tempter, the devil. And that sin is likewise, demonic. When we are tempted, internally, of the tempter, the worst sinner that has ever existed IS in our own flesh to do so, and that is exactly HOW Paul made the determination that

"I am" the chief of sinners, because the matters of sin are not just about the man, but of our adversary.

I know that adversary also much rather enjoys to blame and accuse US. That is how our adversary operates. Satan does not CARE to have the LIGHT OF EXPOSURE from Gods Word shed upon him, but will rather say to any of us, "it's just you."

2 Corinthians 4:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[smaller]

Do the laws of God work any differently in MY flesh than it did in Paul's?

Romans 7:
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence.

Paul made this determination about himself, in the flesh:

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Do you read "I WAS" carnal? Do you read "I WAS" sold under sin? Or are your own eyes playing tricks on you?

I read that clearly as I AM.

Paul goes on, IN TRUTH:

Romans 7:
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

I have much more FEAR coming before God in Christ as a lying hypocrite, IF I made an opposite claim.

 

[JLB]

Paul goes on, IN TRUTH:

Romans 7:
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

I have much more FEAR coming before God in Christ as a lying hypocrite, IF I made an opposite claim.

If you stand before God, as someone who was given the Spirit of Life in Christ, and you chose to walk in the flesh to practice gratifying it's lust's, and die in that condition, then you will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Those who do not inherit the kingdom of God will here these words:
‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41

• Paul makes a distinction between the inward man, and his physical body.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members,warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Romans 7:21-23

• When we are born again, we become alive spiritually, as we are no longer dead in trespasses and sins.

And you He made alive,who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), Ephesians 2:1-5

• However, sin remains in the body.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Romans 7:21-24

• The remedy that God gives us is the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

... the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

• So now, our debt, is to the Spirit, to walk in the Spirit. [Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh...]
• To set our minds on the things of the Spirit.
• To be led by the Spirit.

That by the Spirit,we ourselves would "put to death", to mortify, to render incapable the deeds of the flesh where sin and evil continues to be present with us. [if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.]

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14



We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does nottouch him. 1 John 5:18


JLB

 

[smaller]

If you stand before God, as someone who was given the Spirit of Life in Christ, and you chose to walk in the flesh to practice gratifying it's lust's, and die in that condition, then you will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I'm certainly not interested in being a lying hypocrite, by not following Paul's own statements of fact.

Do I think the sin indwelling my flesh, the evil present with me is blessed by God in Christ? Assuredly NOT. I expect God in Christ to be against these workings. But the workings are a fact of scripture, regardless.

I do understand that believers who spent their entire lives justifying themselves might however have a very hard time seeing the obvious. I have zero interest in being a phony christian religious pharisee, and see, CLEARLY, the honest man who was justified:

Luke 18:
9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Self abasement is obviously the path that Jesus laid out, above. That path can not be walked by liars and hypocrites. I might even see that it is IMPOSSIBLE for such to even read.

 

[for_his_glory]

smaller and JLB, I don't know about you two, but I feel it is time for me to step away from this as I believe all has been said that can be said as all we are doing is repeating ourselves. God bless the both of you

 

[smaller]

smaller and JLB, I don't know about you two, but I feel it is time for me to step away from this as I believe all has been said that can be said as all we are doing is repeating ourselves. God bless the both of you

For the record I hold no ill to either of you in any of these sights as believers. I know the direction to look for judgments.

The truth of these matters was never and can not be to the intentions of condemnation to any believer. Not when there is another direction to look.

Believers can and do fall into self justifications and condemnations of other believers.

That is in fact a working of the will of the devil.

1 Timothy 3:6
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

This is where the majority of the churches have wallowed around in to each others for quite some time now.

Romans 13:12
The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

What is that light?

James 5:
9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

16 Confess your faults one to another,

Now, I don't really know about any of you others here, but personally I very much look forward to ditching MY vile flesh which is contrary to the Spirit and against the Spirit, with sin dwelling in it and evil present with me.

But you DO have the confession of my faults, in honesty.

And I'd like to think we might all be on the same page in this regards:

Philippians 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

I can not HOPE to shuck off what I claim to NOT have, to shuck off.

Kinda funny that God hid our Hope in the vile flesh, dontchathink?

Could it be that God Intends to Show His Power in doing exactly that?

 

[markathome]

So if we place ourselves under the Law, why did Jesus have to die for?
Those who sinned before Jesus came went to the altar and shed blood to cover their transgressions against the Law.
But now since we have placed ourselves back under the Law we go to the altar and confess our transgressions against the Law which is covered by His blood. The OT Law is hard enough to follow but Jesus came and made it x1000 harder because its our thought's not just our actions that condemns us. The Law become impossible to fulfill or to follow.
To those Christians who thinks they are perfect and without sin, don't ya make His death meaningless?

 

[smaller]

but Jesus came and made it x1000 harder because its our thought's not just our actions that condemns us. The Law become impossible to fulfill or to follow.
To those Christians who thinks they are perfect and without sin, don't ya make His death meaningless?

Brilliant truthful deduction!

The O.T. promised that Jesus would MAGNIFY the law. Glad you made the truthful connection.

Isaiah 42:21
The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

How was the LAW magnified?

Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23

The law proves that even a sinful/evil/defiling THOUGHT is evil defiling sin. Affirmed by Paul in his own mind in Romans 7:7-13.

 

[JLB]

Kinda funny that God hid our Hope in the vile flesh, dontchathink?

No I don't think it's funny, because our hope is not in our flesh, but in Christ Jesus, who has given us His Spirit that empowers us to overcome.

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:7-8

5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:5-7

The wrath of God will come to those who live after the flesh, to satisfy it's lustful cravings...
DO NOT BE A PARTAKER OF GOD'S WRATH WITH THOSE WHO CHOOSE THIS PATH OF DISOBEDIENCE.


JLB

 

[smaller]

No I don't think it's funny, because our hope is not in our flesh, but in Christ Jesus, who has given us His Spirit that empowers us to overcome.

I might see honesty as that overcoming. Not denial of the obvious.

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

If any say the above isn't so, I need only to point to the obvious above, and be honest about it as it applies to my own flesh.

If some claim contrary to the above fact, I can only say it stems from that which IS contrary to the Spirit. Nothing personal. It's a common form of deception.