If Lucifer (Satan) was never one of Gods holy angels, or as scripture calls him an anointed cherub, then how do you explain Ezekiel 28:13-17. Satan did not become a murder until iniquity was found in him due to his pride and anger against God.
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Satan,Sin, Angels, Man
- Thread starter Douglas Summers
- Start date
If Lucifer (Satan) was never one of Gods holy angels, or as scripture calls him an anointed cherub, then how do you explain Ezekiel 28:13-17. Satan did not become a murder until iniquity was found in him due to his pride and anger against God.
smaller
Member
God made Satan to do what Satan does. Call it an anointing in the adverse senses if you please. The resistor was made to resist.
Murder doesn't have to be external to be a murdering sin.
Murder comes from "within." Long before it's ever seen on the outside or "found" as a fact.
Matthew 15:
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
We see this activity everywhere believers post. And yes, it is murder in heart.
1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
This is WHY it is important to establish LOVE toward ALL our brethren, so we are not ourselves, convicted of HATRED and MURDER, by the Spirit.
And why having a "fulcrum" for Divine Judgment, against Satan, the devil, is very important in these matters. There are many who have fallen, in this way. Most, by my sights.
Matthew 24:12
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Christians will hate each others to no end. But they'll never judge the tempter in their own flesh, who suckered them into the trap of hatred, hypocrisy, false judgements and double dealing the subject matters.
Sin runs it's FULL course, from thought to word to deed. I might suggest God enjoys the Judgment of "entirely" guilty on all counts.
So, who is guilty?
Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
When we see the adversary upon our own fleshy lips, things will change, FAST.
Not one person has made such a claim, as everyone agrees that the flesh lusts against the Spirit.
You keep talking in circles in an attempt to avoid the truth.
Those who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.
We are responsible to put to death the deeds of the flesh, because we have been empowered with the Holy Spirit.
We have been given dominion over sin.
18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18
The wicked one does not touch those who keep themselves.
JLB
Can you see that those who keep themselves, the wicked one does not touch them.
Does not touch them!
18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
1 John 5:18
The wicked one does not touch those who keep themselves.
JLB
I didn't call Satan an anointed cherub as God called him an anointed cherub and perfect in his ways from the day he was created until iniquity was found in him. Not my words, but Gods words.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Satan (Lucifer) is a son of God, as are all angels.
Just because angels are sons of God, doesn't mean they can not end up in hell.
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
2 Peter 2:4-5
JLB
The temptations are from the devil..............sin is when we act on those temptations. If Jesus would have acted on those temptations spoken of in Matthew Chapter 4 then Jesus would have to be walking in unbelief and that is impossible for His purpose as being the living word of God.
What did Jesus say to Satan:
It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Jesus also told us in Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
smaller
Member
There are a lot of false doctrines that will bow out when christians stop condemning each others and look to their own contrary and against the Spirit flesh and see why this is so.
There IS another entity class in view that is NOT the believers.
The wicked one and the believers are NOT the same.
When this sight of division comes, and it has come right here in this thread, there are 2 outcomes. The believer is eternally upheld, and their flesh, which is subject to the intrusions of the tempter, becomes enraged.
This is the revealing of the man of sin, the son of perdition, sitting in the flesh temples.
Only ONE will see it. The other will resist. Mark the time.
Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
smaller
Member
Gotta love God's Fine Print.
Spelled, perfect devil.
God is Perfect
Man is perfect
Satan is perfect
Only one of the above is Perfect in the truest sense of the term.
The others are limited, little p, perfect, in their own ways.
1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
anointed cherub and perfect in his ways from the day he was created until iniquity was found in him. Not my words, but Gods words.
smaller, what does until mean to you?
smaller, what does until mean to you?
smaller
Member
God created a perfect devil.
The ways of same was already shown. Iniquity is first, within. Then proven in word and finally in deed.
The three strikes of the viper.
Genesis 3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast
Jeremiah 8:17
For, behold, I will send serpents, cockatrices, among you, which will not be charmed, and they shall bite you, saith the Lord.
Matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
There is no natural man that will or can concede to the terms of scripture. The natural man, like Adam, hides his iniquity.
Job 31:
33 If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom
Would a perfect devil declare himself to be holy? Of course! The devil is a liar.
There is no scripture showing the devil, Satan, was EVER Holy. It's a made up story that came from the freewill camps. Yet many believers take this as Gospel.
Proverbs 16:4
The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
smaller
Member
Daniel 12:10
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Watch how wickedness rises up.
Believers for a very long time, have declared the sin that dwells in their flesh is obedient. Really?
How deceived can believers be? Is that the Voice of Truth? No. It is the voice of the tempter, in the flesh, lying out his nose.
2 Corinthians 11:
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Watch how wickedness rises up.
Believers for a very long time, have declared the sin that dwells in their flesh is obedient. Really?
How deceived can believers be? Is that the Voice of Truth? No. It is the voice of the tempter, in the flesh, lying out his nose.
2 Corinthians 11:
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Those that walk after the flesh to gratify its lust's in disobedience, will suffer God's wrath.
Those that practice righteousness, by expressing the life of the Spirit, will inherit eternal life.
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:7-8
...those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath.
JLB
That why we are given dominion over the sin, so that we do not obey its lust's.
Those who set their minds on the things of the flesh, gratify its sinful desires.
Those who set their minds on the things of the Spirit, obey the Spirit, and by the Spirit put to death the deeds of the flesh.
You have no excuse!
For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. Romans 8:5
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13
If you live according to the desires of the flesh, you will die...
but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
It's your choice!
JLB
It plainly means that Lucifer was perfect.., UNTIL iniquity was found in him.
JLB
What does any of this have to do with the question I asked you. The definition of until is up to the time, meaning before Lucifer/Satan was found with iniquity he was an anointed cherub and God created him perfect just as God created Adam and all of us perfect before sin was found in us. If Satan was a perfect devil from the time he was created then why would God set him over the Garden of Eden as a covering cherub to watch over and enjoy all that was of God.
smaller
Member
The word "until" by no means indicates the devil was ever holy prior.
I pointed to the fact that evil comes from within, and progresses-grows in it's expressions from thought to word and fulfills itself in external action(s)/deed(s).
Jesus was abundantly clear about the devil being a murderer from the beginning. John 8:44.
Jesus' statement about the devil is a statement of fact.
We also know from Genesis that the serpent, the tempter, the deceiver, the DEVIL, was already like that from day 1 of man.
Regarding the Ezekiel account there are far more interesting things to observe in that particular stretch of scriptures that most believers are not even capable of having a conversation about because they are not versed in understandings about depictions of the devil and his role in the world, which was actually SET by God Himself.
smaller
Member
I'll point to Paul every time in these matters. Paul told the truth about himself.
Here is one of those truths:
2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
I read and see TWO parties in the above statement of fact.
You see only one. What can I say to that?
smaller
Member
That "hardline fact" that the flesh, and more accurately, the evil conscience behind the input of lusts, deceptions, temptations and ultimately the death of our flesh MEANS that those workings ARE in all people.
Why any seek to justify these internal workings in themselves, even in dominion, will remain an action of trying to squeeze those workings into the ACCEPTABLE TO GOD arena when that can not happen.
A preacher I used to like explained the facts of sin indwelling the flesh was like trying to hold corks under water with a hand. As soon as you let go, they pop to the surface. But the corks are there, nevertheless. Meaning we are sinners regardless because sin dwells in the flesh. Romans 7:17-20.
There is no possible way to justify sin dwelling in the flesh. Jesus condemns sin indwelling the flesh regardless of it showing up on the outside or NOT. Romans 8:3
I'm sure that many people are mighty proud of being able to hold their corks underwater. I'm also sure those corks are condemned regardless.
As to the supposed choices resulting in only good and acceptable to God actions, Paul utterly casts such notions aside in Romans 7 showing that he did things he hated, did evil, had lustful thoughts that were ILLEGAL internally, and had evil present with him.
Does that look like a man who made only good choices resulting in only good actions?
Probably not. Paul was telling the truth. The facts that most believers can not own up to whatsoever. The notion of "moral obedient" sinners is nonsense and will remain nonsense.
We can only be saved through faith in Christ by His Grace and Mercy because of our factual conditions in the flesh, which facts remain regardless of "morality" or "obedience." Why don't we obey what is in writing as facts?
There is a basic difference between a believer who knows they need Gods Mercy because they are sinners and those who think they are not because of their actions.
Jesus showed us in Luke 18, the difference between those who are honest and those who try to justify themselves.
9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
The religious pharisee thought he was not like other men. Here's news: We are just like other men when it comes to having sin dwell in our flesh. Romans 3:9 tells us we are NO BETTER.
Gal. 3:22 also tells us that scripture has concluded ALL are under sin, period. That conclusion isn't changing on the basis of morality or obedience.
IF we look, as Jesus Looked, we will look upon our own flesh, and CONDEMN it and not try to justify any of the adverse INTERNAL workings therein.
Condemnation makes a much better LID.