Vic said:
That may be true, but there is Scripture that is undeniably the Truth. Some Scripture cannot mean anything but what it says no matter how it is intertreted. How many ways can John 14:6 possibly be interpreted? Or John 3:16-17? Or Romans 10:-10?
Don't you test 'tradition' against God's Word or do you just take it at face value? Things like Lent, not eating meat on Fridays, (which the Church has pretty much done away with) confessionals (which also have pretty much been done away with) the Rosary, Sunday Sabbath, are all "traditional", but are they Scriptual?
I'm just curious as to where our RC brethren stand on these issues.
Hi Vic,
Tradition and Scripture are both the Word of God and therefore do not contradict each other, as each proceeds from the same divine wellspring, according to Vatican II, Dei Verbum. Scripture came from the Tradition, being that which was handed on from the Apostles, and is illuminated by it.
Some form of fast is suggested on Fridays in honor of our Lord's Passion. Confession is very much part of Church teaching, based I believe on:
John 20:23 For those whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven; for those whose sins you retain, they are retained.'
He was speaking to the Apostles and therefore to the Church, here.
References to show that the Sabbath was still recognised in the NT:
1. "And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up; and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read." Luke 4:16
2. Jesus: "...The sabbath was made for man…" Mark 2:27
If it was made for man, then man should use it.
3. Paul: "And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three Sabbath days reasoned with them out of the Scriptures." Acts 17:2-3
4. Paul and Gentiles. "And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. And the next Sabbath came almost the whole city together to hear the Word of God." Acts 13:42, 44
From the early Church the Sabbath has been observed. According to 3rd century Athanasius, 'religious assemblies were held on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath'.
Also, from the Council of Laodicea, 364 AD: "Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday, but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s Day they shall especially honor, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ."
The Rosary 'evolved' between the 12th and 15th centuries, but devotion to Mary was known of from the early centuries.
Luke 1:48 because he has looked upon his lowly handmaid. Yes,
from this day forward all generations will call me blessed,
This demands at least that we honour her as blessed. But, never adore her as we do God:
St Epiphanius (d.403) laid down the rule: "Let Mary be held in honour. Let the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost be adored, but let no one adore Mary"
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15459a.htm
As for the theology of the intercession of the saints, on which the Rosary is based, I accept Tradition and can see that Scripture doesn't contradict it, but even supports it:
Revelation 5:8 and when he took it, the four animals prostrated themselves before him and with them the twenty-four elders; each one of them was holding a harp and had a golden bowl full of incense made of the prayers of the saints.
Revelation 8:3 Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. A large quantity of incense was given to him to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar that stood in front of the throne;
Revelation 8:4 and so from the angel's hand the smoke of the incense went up in the presence of God and with it the prayers of the saints.
You may argue that such saints are not dead, as Mary is, but Jesus told us that:
Luke 20:38 Now he is God, not of the dead, but of the living;
for to him all men are in fact alive.'
So, I trust that Tradition and Scripture do not contradict each other, but that each supports the other.
I am sure many others, more learned than me will be able to expand on this.
God Bless,
Nick
