StoveBolts
I’m glad you see where I am coming from. You don’t quite seem to grasp the concept of God being Absolute Sovereign Lord of All creation, past, present and future.
I don't think I'd say that... Rather, I simply understand God's sovereignty differently than you do at this stage in my walk with Christ.
Everything is transpiring according to His Will. Absolutely everything.
I'd say that everything is working in according to his governance.
He is the author and creator of every life, mind and thing on this planet.
The majority cannot grasp this concept. THEY MUST HAVE FREE WILL OR ELSE THEY ARE JUST PUPPETS!
Perhaps you are not talking about free will...
The majority cannot understand that WE ARE CREATED TO DO GOD’S WILL NOT OUR OWN.
And God took into account our will...
We were created to be like Jesus, God’s Son.
Yes, and even Jesus was tempted. Jesus had CHOICE.
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
We all have that Choice. It's about obeying and becoming a servent for God. Have you ever pondered what Jesus's will was? I suppose that Jesus's will, was to do God's will. I'd say he set a fine example for us all don't you?
Revelation 2:26
To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nationsâ€â€
and this is to entice me... :-? Like I really want to have that kind of authority? If having authority and power is my motive for living for Christ, then I think I missed my calling.
Actually, Jesus overcame and he will rule with authority over the nations... I'm sure that was your point right?
You know Jesus, the one who healed the lame and sick, walked on water, fed the multitudes, caused THE BLIND TO SEE, even raised people from the dead.
Yeah, I'm getting to know Him much better every day. I think you will agree that many people know of Jesus, but few really get to know Jesus.
We are supposed to be like Jesus, the majority “choose†to be like Satan. THEY MUST HAVE FREE WILL. They believe they chose God and are clothed in their own self righteousness.
And what allows us that choice? (Hint, it was God) What you are saying is that GOD WILLED evil upon all humanity (the way I'm reading your post.) What I'm saying is that God allows evil, even directs it but we are the ones who choose to obey it or obey God's calling. God does not choose evil desires for us because his will for us is his desire for us. This has nothing to do with choosing God or God choosing you or I though. It has to do with how we respond to God's calling when we are confronted with evil temptations.
In closing, who does God call? I'd say that he calls ALL men, women and children in many ways, shapes and forms but ultamatly through the sacrafice of Jesus. To tell you the truth, it really irks me when some self righteous bible thumper uses verses out of context to promote their supposedly elite status by claiming that they alone were "called".
Free will doctrine began in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve were convinced by Satan that knowledge of good and evil would make them LIKE GOD. That God did not have their best interests at heart.
I'd say the fullness of God was uncovered... That is, the knowledge of Good and Evil...
You will not find my definitions of “choice†and “free will†in a dictionary. Only God’s Spirit can convince you they are true. That is who convinced me.
Let me give you a little story here as I really like to use my past experiences... I was once a member of the Church of Scientology. I helped build ASHO in Hollywood Ca and I was stationed with the "Sea Org" for 6 months and worked beside some of the brightest minds in Scientology. L Ron Hubbard is a very smart guy, make no mistake and his technology produces some very smart people (gee, I guess I should have completed my training huh :wink: ). Anyway, he is pedantic with words and a master of the english language. This is the core of Scientology... Words... But this is also his downfall because he likes etemology where he can coin his own words from the derivations. Do you really know what Scientology means? How about Thetan or engram? They all have their words rooted in the language where you and I can research them out. Nothing is hidden for those who know how to use a dictionary and some basic etemology skills.
So what's my point? When Free Will no longer means "Free Will" according to ones native language, it tells me that sombody is trying to change the meaning of an established word. Some cults use this tactic to elevate their followers by creating esoteric meaning behind regular words... or they coin and mutate their own words for a higher esoteric class of elitism.
So here we are, I say Free will is as described per the dictionary... You say that Free Will is something else... Perhaps you honestly don't realize how you are twisting things here, but changing the basic meaning of any word is one of the first steps to becoming indoctrinated into ANY illicite establishment and is not only a downfall to any religion, but any business, group, cult or click around. Perhaps our Yes should mean Yes, and our No's mean No... Do you honestly not understand how one false notion breeds many false notions even if there is truth in one of the notions down the line? You speak many truths, but your foundation is false with truth in your premise.
Also, did you know that when we use words out of their defined terms, it creates not only chaos, but it created confusion. Let me give you an example. "Honey, would you get me a glass of milk?". She brings me back a glass of milk and I get angry, "No, I wanted Milk". She replies, "Here's your milk".. and I insist that she didn't bring me milk because I and my buddies decided that coconut juice was now Milk and hence we get into a chaotic argument.
God is not the author of confusion... His Yes means Yes and his No means No... Pretty straight forward I'd say. Do you agree?
What comes out of a man is what makes him ‘unclean.’ For from within, out of men’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these things come from inside and make a man ‘unclean.’ (Mark 7:20-23)
Our hearts are being tested. We will all be shown the truth of all scripture.
And this is conveyed through communication... Parts of communication are Cause, Distance and effect with intention for attention... In other words, what is God's cause? Does he have a cause?. What is the distance? Is God far or near? What effect does this have on a person? What is God's intention and did he get your attention?
Yes, our hearts are being tested and we will duplicate Gods will and we will gain God's understanding. We do this by doing God's will by becoming servents.. We subject ourselves to His mighty authority and his soveriegnty becomse our reality.
We will be shown that without God, we make very poor choices indeed.
Yes we have “choice†OK we all agree on that. Will you agree with ( Mark 7:20-23 ) that WE MAKE VERY POOR CHOICES WITHOUT GOD’S SPIRIT GUIDING US? Do you get it? WE MAKE POOR CHOICES, US, YOU AND I.
Just like GOD KNEW WE WOULD! WE DO IT!!!!!!! Is this clear?
Just so you and I are on the same page, are you saying that it is God's will that brings man to accept his will... In other words, man does not make the choice to follow God, but rather God chooses Man to follow him? If this is utterly the entire case, why would God allow us to make choices at all knowing that we can only make poor choices? What defines God's Choices and Our Choices?
If man can only make poor choices, then man does not have the ability to choose God in any way shape or form period because in choosing God, one would be making a good choice right? But God made Man in His image... Does God have the ability to make poor choices? Was it a poor choice that Man was created? I'm serious here.
Well, according to Mark 7:20-23, these are just a few things that come out of mans heart. Are you saying that these things are exclusevly the only thing that can come out of a mans heart?
God did not cause the serial killer to rape and murder His victim’s. That’s oopsie. That’s your interpretation not mine!
Again, chaos and confusion derived on a lack of communication because you use esoteric nomenclature... I think you need to coin a new word and not use Free Will if you need to redefine the word to make it fit your premise.
James 1:14
but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
James 1:14 is why. WE MAKE POOR CHOICES. WE WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE IF WE ARE NOT IN CHRIST.
We are dragged away... From what? Our poor choices by our evil desires? :-? No, I believe we are dragged away by our evil desires from our good desires and that causes us to fall away from God.
Do you agree with these scriptures?
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
By nature yes I agree. But we can become righteous in the eyes of God when we accept His gift of salvation. In other words, through Jesus, we become righteous.
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Correct, God seeks us and knocks upon our hearts. It is our choice that accepts him or rejects him.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Ok, so I know I'll get flack for this one...(and I could be wrong) Have you heard of the fruits of the spirit? Can sombody that rejects Christ produce joy, peace, self control etc? Of course they can, (but not to the fullness that God intended). I believe that when God created Adam, he left a piece of Himself in Adam and through that blast, that snuffing out of ones life, [5301. naphach] each and every one of us wether we accept or reject Christ has a piece of God in us. That is the knocking we hear for it comes from within our soul... It is obeying Gods desire, God's will that dwells within (emphasis on within) our very souls. It is for this reason that God dwells in the very nature of ALL mankind and it is for this reason that some that never heard the name Jesus (Indians, eskimo's etc) will have their names written in the Book of Life. To me, this is why choice is so very important because we have the freedom to choose to accpept the knocking and open the door, or we can reject His calling. If we reject His knocking, he is persistant for He is a part of our very essence wether we deny Him in us or not. But make no mistake, we are apart from God and it is through our will, that we are able to accept His will. This, I call Free Will.
Do you see the lessons being taught here? Are you in agreement with God’s word?
The way I understand it, yes. If not, I'm sure that I will be convicted of God's truth sometime in the near future.
StoveBolts wrote:
I agree with most of what you have written until it gets to "He created every single thing. Every circumstance, cause and event"
Litebeam wrote:
The majority cannot and will not accept the concept that God is Absolute Sovereign Lord. THEY WILL NOT. Get IT?????
Sovereignty is based on economy. Do you understand God's commerce?
Listen carefully. It is not my intent to convince you or anyone else about these things. My prayer is that whoever reads these posts WILL DO THEIR OWN INVESTIGATION. That they will seek God with all their hearts and His Wisdom.
And these are very wise words.
StoveBolts wrote:
God did not create the automobile, Man did.
Litebeam wrote:
Who made man? Who made everything that is? Do you disagree with God’s Word?
I agree that God made the elements [every last one of them] and set these natural elements in motion. I believe we call these axioms. God defined the rule book hence we have cause and effect. Is God liable if you choose to sin? God created the elements that make up iron, but he did not create alloy. Rather, he created the elements in a manner that they react to one another in different aspects with different results. Yes, God created the pieced to the puzzle and every part of the puzzle, but the puzzle can create many many different pictures. Each picture God is already aware of, but we still get to decide what picture we want to create with it’s pieces.
John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Absolutly!
God spoke the creation into existence. The whole creation, everything, from beginning to end came from God’s Spirit. IT CAME FROM GOD’S SPIRIT! Out of God himself!!!
He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. GET IT???????
Actually, Omega was not the end rather a numerical value. It is really quite fascinating. Have you ever looked at Sampi (900)and wondered why it’s usage stopped? http://www.fargonasphere.com/piso/numcode.html
God created ALL THINGS! Even the car you are driving. He created Every mind and thought in existence. He knows our words before we speak them. He created EVERYTHING even our thoughts.
He created them, but we control them.
Please spare me the worldly view about how this somehow diminishes things or makes us automatons.
automatons? Without Free Will, how could you not be an automaton without free will? Are you sure you read my posts? I didn’t think I alluded at all to anyone being a robot.
The majority have completely underestimated The Sovereign Lord.
GOD IS OMNIPOTENT.
GOD IS OMNICIENT.
GOD IS OMNIPRESENT.
If you do not agree that God is indeed all this and infinite besides, WELCOME TO THE VAST MAJORITY WHO ARE DEAD IN THEIR SINS, UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND GOD’S WORD.
Yes, and we can accept the salvation that only comes from Christ Today
It is no shock that the majority agree with themselves.
Do you want to agree with God’s Word, or with them?????
IF YOU START AGREEING WITH THE WORD OF GOD, OBEY GOD, PUT HIS WILL AHEAD OF YOUR OWN WANTS AND DESIRES AND TURN AWAY FROM SIN, YOU WILL NOT BE CONFUSED.
Satan rules the minds of the majority, guess why they are confused, guess why we are at 30,000 denominations and counting.
I don’t need to guess. It’s pretty apparent that different people see God differently and interpret God in different ways…Please notice how I do not belittle your faith in God
