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Saved by Grace Through Faith, Not by Works

gr8grace3 said:
Wonderful stuff dirtfarmer. God deals with us in Grace and mercy. But it seems most believers want God to fry us all.
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hello gr8grace, dirtfarmer here

God is love as scripture tells us, but God is also a God justice and longsuffering. In God's longsuffering he delays his justice, if he didn't we would all be dead. Also in God's longsuffering, He is not willing that any should perish, but that all would be saved. He has given all ample testimony as to his existence, but man has changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into images of things that he has created and worshiped his creation. So, man is without excuse.
 
dirtfarmer said:
hello gr8grace, dirtfarmer here

God is love as scripture tells us, but God is also a God justice and longsuffering. In God's longsuffering he delays his justice, if he didn't we would all be dead. Also in God's longsuffering, He is not willing that any should perish, but that all would be saved. He has given all ample testimony as to his existence, but man has changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into images of things that he has created and worshiped his creation. So, man is without excuse.
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Amen. The Justice of God is what is overlooked in most cases. It is His justice that saves us. His Love sent His Son, His Justice/righteousness saved us the moment we believed. Logical eternal security. But we have truth of eternal security in His word to us.

Once a man is justified before God............there is no going back. We ARE justified. The very righteousness of Christ is imputed to us.

If His love saved us........universalism.

If his Sovereignty saved us.......he would arbitrarily save certain people for the eternal state or send certain people to hell.

BUT, if His justice saves us...................it is fair and equal to ALL who believe.
 
gr8grace3 said:
Wonderful stuff dirtfarmer. God deals with us in Grace and mercy. But it seems most believers want God to fry us all.
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How is exhorting believers to be present day hearers and believers, so they will be among those who have eternal life, wanting God to fry us all????? The only people I can think of that would possibly perceive that exhortation as God wanting to fry us all are unsaved people.
 
gr8grace3 said:
BUT, if His justice saves us...................it is fair and equal to ALL who believe.
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Yes, "to ALL who believe". I'm amused every time I see an OSASer with the non-OSAS argument right in his own defense of OSAS and he doesn't even realize it. :lol

That's what we've been saying all along. It is the person who believes that has eternal life. Not the person who no longer believes.

"he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." (John 5:24 NASB bold mine)

Look at it again. The person who believes has eternal life.
 
wondering said:
The Father is always waiting for us with open arms. He will NEVER say NO to us.
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"...those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut. 11“Later the other virgins also came, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open up for us.’ 12“But he answered, ‘Truly I say to you, I do not know you.’ (Matthew 25:10-12 NASB)

"...like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. 17For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears." (Hebrews 12:16-17 NASB)

"...God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness." (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 NASB)
 
wondering said:
Not so fast.
What do you mean by punish.?
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"30For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.32But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world." (1 Corinthians 11:30-32 NASB)

"1It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife.
5I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
(1 Corinthians 5:1,5 NASB)

(Be civil. Don't turn this into an attack on me.)
 
Jethro Bodine said:
"30For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.32But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world." (1 Corinthians 11:30-32 NASB)

"1It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife.
5I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
(1 Corinthians 5:1,5 NASB)

(Be civil. Don't turn this into an attack on me.)
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I'm trying to understand .
I see you're going thru my first post, so I'll wait.
Preparing dinner itmt.
 
wondering said:
It is, however, in some cases impossible to bring them back because the falling away is so great and the emotions against God are so great.

[...]

Many post that thye're worried about their status with God because they had fallen away but now wish to return.
God will surely accept them because His love and mercy are His very being.
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You're talking out both sides of your mouth.
Which is it?
Sometimes it's impossible for God to bring them back, or God will surely accept them back?

I leave the decision to God of who he leaves the door open to come back to him, and who he shuts the door to. And I leave when he makes that decision up to him. I'm not going to tell a person who wants to believe again that God will in fact, without doubt accept them. I don't know that. I will tell them to try, though.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8which He lavished on us." (Ephesians 1:7-8 NASB)
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hello Jethro Bodine, dirtfarmer here

In verse 6 of Ephesians 1:6 it is states " he hath made us accepted in the beloved" verse 7 & 8 is in reference to "having been made acceptable in the beloved"

In the scripture that I read verse 8 says, " Wherein, he hath abounded toward us in wisdom and prudence." I will reference 1 Corinthians 1:30, " But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who is of God made unto us wisdom and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption."

It is after we are saved that God does all this. I don't find in those scriptures that God runs to the unbeliever.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Yes, "to ALL who believe". I'm amused every time I see an OSASer with the non-OSAS argument right in his own defense of OSAS and he doesn't even realize it. :lol

That's what we've been saying all along. It is the person who believes that has eternal life. Not the person who no longer believes.

"he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." (John 5:24 NASB bold mine)

Look at it again. The person who believes has eternal life.
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John 5:24 is not a salvation verse. It is a eternal security verse.

YOU don't believe what the Father is telling you in His word.......so you believe that eternal life can be lost,that a born-again person can come into judgement, that the new creature "might" not have passed out of death and into life.

If we dont believe what the Father is telling us about eternal life......we will think that we can lose salvation. It won't 'unsave' us, but we will not glorify Christ in this life if we believe that we have to continue His FINISHED work in saving us.
 
gr8grace3 said:
John 5:24 is not a salvation verse. It is a eternal security verse
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It is actually two sentences that Jesus spoke in the middle of a long discourse. To separate them out of that discourse would be unwise.

Jesus was speaking of salvation, and the eternal security one has of that salvation - which is in Christ.

The people Jesus was speaking with looked to the 'words' of Scripture for life. Oh the irony of this passage.

John 5
25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man.
28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice
29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Those who hear His voice follow Him, and He gives those eternal life - people should stop trying to find life in the words printed on paper, much less trust in them for eternal life.
 
gr8grace3 said:
so you believe that eternal life can be lost,that a born-again person can come into judgement...
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No. I believe that the ex-born again person can/ will come into judgment.
If they remained born again by believing in Him who sent Jesus that is to whom the promise of never perishing applies.

gr8grace3 said:
that the new creature "might" not have passed out of death and into life.
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No, the new creature most definitely has passed out of death and into life. It's the person who is no longer a new creation because of unbelief that no longer is in life and has gone back to death. The promise of eternal life is for those who presently believe, not for those who don't believe anymore. Read it again:

"...he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." (John 5:24 NASB)
 
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More than 2000 posts and all of the same verses and arguments are still going strong. I admire your energy, I long ago quit from exhaustion. :)
 
dirtfarmer said:
hello wondering, dirtfarmer here

You have put a qualifier ,"as long as we are in Christ".
Philippians 4:7, " And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Jesus Christ." In this verse we are told that it is the peace of God, the efficient cause, that keeps our hearts and minds. The secondary agent, faith in Christ that results in salvation.
Passeth- surpasses- holds above: transcends the reach of man's ability to understand the continual peace that baffles man's ability to explain supernatural peace. Stephen in the book of Acts 7:54-59 is an example.
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Hi Dirtfarmer,

I put a qualifier because I cannot understand how eternal security can be possible in any other way other than IN Christ.
You posted verse 4:7 of Philippians. Not sure how you mean this.

Are you saying that Christ will not ALLOW us to leave Him, forsake Him, abandon Him?
Are you saying that He works through our heart and mind to stay with Him making it impossible to leave?

( I also don't understand why you posted Stephen in Acts)
 
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