[_ Old Earth _] Science and Christianity go hand in hand

[Guest]

Microevolution is the same thing as growth or adaptation. Why use a scientific term if I don't need to?

:D I agree. It's not needed.

 

[keebs]

If I'm being ignorrant in this case, I'm fine with that, because you have not given me an example of evolution thatcan't be explained by adaptation or growth.

I'd like to know how you believe adaptation happens. If a species needs to adapt, does it just magically appear? What is your mechanism for adaptation?

 

[Blazin Bones]

keebs, adaptaion is as simple as a frog spending more time in water in desert regions because it appears there less often, it didn't evolve, it just behaved differently.

 

[keebs]

But you still haven't explained how they change...what is your mechanism for adaptation?

 

[Guest]

But you still haven't explained how they change...what is your mechanism for adaptation?

8-) Natural causes keebs. We all age from babies to adults.
Thats not evolution,thats a normal process in life. It agrees with
the bible.

 

[keebs]

What natural causes though, blue? Natural causes is not an answer. And, age isn't adaptation, nor is it evolution. That just goes to show how you don't udnerstand a thing about evolution. A single organism can't evolve. A population evolves. There is no genetic change in an organism throughout it's life, so anybody who even understands an inkling of evolution would not even consider aging to be evolution.

 

[Blazin Bones]

What natural causes though, blue? Natural causes is not an answer. And, age isn't adaptation, nor is it evolution. That just goes to show how you don't udnerstand a thing about evolution. A single organism can't evolve. A population evolves. There is no genetic change in an organism throughout it's life, so anybody who even understands an inkling of evolution would not even consider aging to be evolution.

See, evolution is just as we said, growth or adaptation. You just said it in the Bold print. The human population has begun to become technological, is that Evolution or adaptaion?

 

[Asimov]

What natural causes though, blue? Natural causes is not an answer. And, age isn't adaptation, nor is it evolution. That just goes to show how you don't udnerstand a thing about evolution. A single organism can't evolve. A population evolves. There is no genetic change in an organism throughout it's life, so anybody who even understands an inkling of evolution would not even consider aging to be evolution.

See, evolution is just as we said, growth or adaptation. You just said it in the Bold print. The human population has begun to become technological, is that Evolution or adaptaion?

Adaptation IS evolution, brutus!!! It's a part of evolution.

You aren't answering the question. Growth happens with individual organisms, adaptation is what happens when environmental pressure forces a population to change, or die out. An organism cannot force it's own adaptation. Populations adapt to the environment through mutation and natural selection. This is a part of evolution. Evolution is change over time, it doesn't mean you have to adapt, nor does it mean you wont.

 

[Blazin Bones]

What natural causes though, blue? Natural causes is not an answer. And, age isn't adaptation, nor is it evolution. That just goes to show how you don't udnerstand a thing about evolution. A single organism can't evolve. A population evolves. There is no genetic change in an organism throughout it's life, so anybody who even understands an inkling of evolution would not even consider aging to be evolution.

See, evolution is just as we said, growth or adaptation. You just said it in the Bold print. The human population has begun to become technological, is that Evolution or adaptaion?

Adaptation IS evolution, brutus!!! It's a part of evolution.

You aren't answering the question. Growth happens with individual organisms, adaptation is what happens when environmental pressure forces a population to change, or die out. An organism cannot force it's own adaptation. Populations adapt to the environment through mutation and natural selection. This is a part of evolution. Evolution is change over time, it doesn't mean you have to adapt, nor does it mean you wont.

It depends on the feature that is being changed. I don't think things "evolve" genetically, because we have have no proven examples, or am I wrong.

 

[keebs]

See, evolution is just as we said, growth or adaptation. You just said it in the Bold print.

No, I said nothing of the sort. I said that evolution occurs within a population, not an individual. To say an individual evolved does not make sense.

It depends on the feature that is being changed.

Then give me an example of one of the mechanisms that drive your process of adaptation, with respect to some feature.

I don't think things "evolve" genetically, because we have have no proven examples, or am I wrong.

Yeah, you're wrong. You're once again referring to microevolution. How else would a population trait change and not effect our genetic code?

 

[Blazin Bones]

As I've said keebs it depends on the trait. Would you mind if I chose to use the trait of age?

We've seen in the course of human history, the life span of Humans has increased not because of a Genetic change, but behavioral changes. This is adaptation.

 

[keebs]

We've seen in the course of human history, the life span of Humans has increased not because of a Genetic change, but behavioral changes. This is adaptation.

Actually, it is not as much behavioral change as it is that we are more capable of controlling disease and filth and such now...which is why there is still a short life span in many of the undeveloped nations. It's not adaptation, because we are not doing any adapting, but we are manipulating the enviroment.

 

[Blazin Bones]

We've seen in the course of human history, the life span of Humans has increased not because of a Genetic change, but behavioral changes. This is adaptation.

Actually, it is not as much behavioral change as it is that we are more capable of controlling disease and filth and such now...which is why there is still a short life span in many of the undeveloped nations. It's not adaptation, because we are not doing any adapting, but we are manipulating the enviroment.

Adaptation and Manipulation are almost the same but have one major difference. Manipulation has an expected result, adaptaion does not. I can see where my example can be seen as manipulation.

Another example of adaptation could be the fact that wisdom teeth are no longer necessary. They still grow in, so we haven't evolved, but becaue of the change in how we treat our teeth, wisdom teeth are no longer needed. When we started developing tooth care procedures, I doubt they expected to reduce the need for wisdom teeth.

 

[keebs]

Adaptation and Manipulation are almost the same but have one major difference.

Not necessarily...manipulation is not a change within the individual so much as adaptation is...

Another example of adaptation could be the fact that wisdom teeth are no longer necessary.

That's not adaptation either. That's a change in the enviroment, but since they still come in we haven't adapted to this change.

They still grow in, so we haven't evolved

Because there is no need to. If someone is born without the ability to ever have wisdom teeth, it will not help them live any longer or help them reproduce any more than anyone else, so it is considered a neutral allele, and we would not actually predict this mutation to propagate throughout the population as fast, if at all.

 

[Blazin Bones]

What has adapted about the human population is that we no longer need wisdom teeth as earlier man may have.

 

[keebs]

We don't need our wisdom teeth because of a change in our enviroment, not because we have adapted.

 

[Guest]

What natural causes though, blue? Natural causes is not an answer. And, age isn't adaptation, nor is it evolution. That just goes to show how you don't udnerstand a thing about evolution. A single organism can't evolve. A population evolves. There is no genetic change in an organism throughout it's life, so anybody who even understands an inkling of evolution would not even consider aging to be evolution.

:roll: O.K? Believe what you wish. There are just no facts to back
up your story. The idea of evolution is just alot of propaganda for those
that don't want to be christians,and who don't want to live the christian
life. I don't want to insult any person by telling them that I know they
actually believe in evolution. I know they just use it to feed their agenda.
No person could seriously believe evolution if they have done the research
into it,amen.

 

[keebs]

and who don't want to live the christian life

And what makes a Christian life any better than a non-Christian life?

No person could seriously believe evolution if they have done the research
into it,amen.

So the 97% of molecular biologists out there haven't actually researched the theory at the foundation of their job. Jeesh!

 

[bibleberean]

Keebs,

A Christian life may appear worse than that of a non Christian.

For instance many a fool believes that a man like Hugh Heffner the founder of the Playboy empire has it made.

He has money, wealth, women and fame.

I just saw the man on television. Death is coming for him quickly. He is aging. He is appears to be quite smug in his life. He openly bragged about the three "girlfriends" he has. (paid whores)

Compare him with a missionary in Africa. Most Missionaries are under funded and place their lives in jeopardy to reach the lost.

I have known missionaries who have contracted disease and lost family members on the mission field. They lived in poverty stricken areas where they dared not venture out at night lest they be shot or butchered.

I am sure most fools would prefer to live like Hugh Heffner.

The thing is this life is short.

We will all die unless Christ should appear in our lifetime.

Where will Hugh Heffner go after death? Unless he repents of his hedonistic lifestyle and believes the gospel he will spend eternity in torment and regret in the lake of fire.

The missionary will spend a glorious eternity in the presence of God.

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

That is the difference.

It does not matter if anyone believes this to be true.

They will know it is true and very soon.

I assure you that Carl Sagan's theology is right on the money now.

One day soon Hugh Heffner will also be a believer.

Today is a good day to receive salvation. Now is the time to prayerfully ask God to reveal Himself to you.

God will hear you if you call out to Him.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

2 Corinthians 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

 

[Asimov]

Keebs,

A Christian life may appear worse than that of a non Christian.

He didn't say that.