[_ Old Earth _] Scientific facts in the Bible

[Judy]

I deleted the last three replies by blueeyeliner and Asimov... can you two please stay on topic and keep the personal attacks out of it. :-?

She started it....

: :

 

[bibleberean]

Asimov,

The bible is literally true unless it literally states otherwise.

In Daniel 4:10-11 The King is giving a description of what he saw in a "vison". The vision is filled with symbols.

Daniel interprets this vision to the King.

Daniel 4:20 The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth;

Daniel is giving the interpretation of a symbolic dream to the King.

Daniel 4:21 Whose leaves were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all; under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and upon whose branches the fowls of the heaven had their habitation:

Daniel 4:22 It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth.

Obviously the King is not a tree.

Daniel is telling the King that the tree represents him, his Kingdom and dominion.

I don't have to interpret those verses. The bible does it for us and records the interpretation.

Also,

The devil taking Jesus on top of a high mountain in Matthew 4:8 is not "redundant". Satan is showing Jesus the power he has in this world.

Satan is giving Jesus a display of power and offering Jesus in His weakened state the riches of this world and tempting Christ to worship him in exchange for power, glory and comfort.

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

Matthew 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Satan is the god of this world. Satan could have shown Christ all the Kingdoms of the earth where he met Him in the desert.

Satan did not have to take Jesus up to the top of a temple either. Satan could have asked Christ to throw Himself down off the mountain they were on.

Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Satan is transporting Jesus over great distances in a short period of time.

Satan is a prince a powerful fallen angel.

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Satan is the god of this world and has tremendous supernatural abilities.

I don't see any inconsistency here.

It is impossible to make anyone see the truth or consitency of scripture if their sole purpose is to discredit them.

The gospel is hid from skeptics and atheists because they have chosen to remain blind and worship the god of this world.

There is no such thing as a true atheist. Atheists are simply blinded by the god of this world.

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2 Corinthians 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

We who believe appear to be foolish to those who do not believe.


The truth is that one day everything will be revealed in the light of God's truth.

All skeptics and atheists will be revealed for who and what they really are.

Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The clock is ticking...

 

[Asimov]

The devil taking Jesus on top of a high mountain in Matthew 4:8 is not "redundant". Satan is showing Jesus the power he has in this world.

Satan is giving Jesus a display of power and offering Jesus in His weakened state the riches of this world and tempting Christ to worship him in exchange for power, glory and comfort.

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
[/quote]

Ignoring the oddity of Satan offering God everything....

There is nothing here to allow for anything but a literal interpretation, berean. Yes, Satan is showing his power, but last I heard, flattening an earth is impossible.


Anyway, this doesn't matter, you are clearly interpreting the bible to fit your own views, as everyone else does.

 

[bibleberean]

The devil taking Jesus on top of a high mountain in Matthew 4:8 is not "redundant". Satan is showing Jesus the power he has in this world.

Satan is giving Jesus a display of power and offering Jesus in His weakened state the riches of this world and tempting Christ to worship him in exchange for power, glory and comfort.

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

Ignoring the oddity of Satan offering God everything....

There is nothing here to allow for anything but a literal interpretation, berean. Yes, Satan is showing his power, but last I heard, flattening an earth is impossible.


Anyway, this doesn't matter, you are clearly interpreting the bible to fit your own views, as everyone else does.[/quote]

Bibleberean responds

No, I am not interpreting the bible to fit my own views.

The earth isn't flat and the bible never said it is.

If God wanted the earth flat He could certainly have created it that way.

 

[Asimov]

No, I am not interpreting the bible to fit my own views.
The earth isn't flat and the bible never said it is.
If God wanted the earth flat He could certainly have created it that way.

yes, but you claim to interpret the bible literally, then you go ahead and show that you don't. If we are seeing a clear-cut case of Satan using his supernatural power to show Jesus the kingdoms (figurative interpretation), then that leaves us at the possibility for a figurative interpretation of many other passages you state are literally true! Which are clearly impossible when viewing the evidence of reality.

 

[Guest]

No, I am not interpreting the bible to fit my own views.
The earth isn't flat and the bible never said it is.
If God wanted the earth flat He could certainly have created it that way.

yes, but you claim to interpret the bible literally, then you go ahead and show that you don't. If we are seeing a clear-cut case of Satan using his supernatural power to show Jesus the kingdoms (figurative interpretation), then that leaves us at the possibility for a figurative interpretation of many other passages you state are literally true! Which are clearly impossible when viewing the evidence of reality.

:o This is very insulting asimov,and it should be reported!
You should not be allowed to stir up the christians as you do and
insult them "REPEATEDLY"!!!

 

[Asimov]

This is very insulting asimov,and it should be reported!
You should not be allowed to stir up the christians as you do and
insult them "REPEATEDLY"!!!

:angel: How have I insulted or stirred up Christians? Berean is making a claim, and I am arguing against his claim. Go ahead, report it.

 

[Sophistress]

I can't see anything insulting in what he said.

 

[reznwerks]

hmm

Asimov,

The bible is literally true unless it literally states otherwise.

I always tell the truth and everything I say is a lie.

 

[Guest]

:D I am just glad I wasn't the first one to cry and run to a mod.
I took everything you dished out at me and more.
In any serious adult debate there will be disagreements.
I accept that and can move on.
Some of you say you are just teenagers. If thats the case,please
refrain from debates with me because I am interested in debates
with adults on these forums. I rarely visit the teen forums.
Please remind yourselves that blue doesn't debate teens on these
issues,or on many issues at all.

 

[bibleberean]

Let's move on and stay on topic or this thread will be closed.

What is the title of this thread?

 

[Judy]

:D I am just glad I wasn't the first one to cry and run to a mod.
I took everything you dished out at me and more.
In any serious adult debate there will be disagreements.
I accept that and can move on.
Some of you say you are just teenagers. If thats the case,please
refrain from debates with me because I am interested in debates
with adults on these forums. I rarely visit the teen forums.
Please remind yourselves that blue doesn't debate teens on these
issues,or on many issues at all.

Blue, you have not respect for me or the rules of this site!! This is you second warning.

 

[Asimov]

Let's move on and stay on topic or this thread will be closed.

What is the title of this thread?

Good idea, berean, I am still awaiting your response.

 

[bibleberean]

No, I am not interpreting the bible to fit my own views.
The earth isn't flat and the bible never said it is.
If God wanted the earth flat He could certainly have created it that way.

yes, but you claim to interpret the bible literally, then you go ahead and show that you don't. If we are seeing a clear-cut case of Satan using his supernatural power to show Jesus the kingdoms (figurative interpretation), then that leaves us at the possibility for a figurative interpretation of many other passages you state are literally true! Which are clearly impossible when viewing the evidence of reality.

That is a misrepresentation of what I stated.

Asimov,

The bible is literally true unless it literally states otherwise.

In Daniel 4:10-11 The King is giving a description of what he saw in a "vison". The vision is filled with symbols.

Daniel interprets this vision to the King.

Daniel 4:20 The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth;

Daniel is giving the interpretation of a symbolic dream to the King.

Daniel 4:21 Whose leaves were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all; under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and upon whose branches the fowls of the heaven had their habitation:

Daniel 4:22 It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth.

Daniel interprets this symbolic dream for Nebuchanezzar.

The tree is not a literal tree and the bible states this.

Satan took Jesus to a literal mountain top and supernaturally showed Him all the kingdoms of the earth in a short moment of time.

You have a problem with that and I don't.

You are looking at the scriptures and looking for fault. I am viewing the scriptures as the word of God and view them as truth.

We each have our perspective.

 

[Asimov]

The bible is literally true unless it literally states otherwise.

I'm gonna hold you to that.

Satan took Jesus to a literal mountain top and supernaturally showed Him all the kingdoms of the earth in a short moment of time.

Where does it say he supernaturally showed him the kingdoms of the earth? You seem to be interjecting these new words into the passage. Thus confusing the point of the story. Why would Satan take him up to a mountain top, then supernaturally show him the kingdoms of the earth. It would seem redundant to take someone to a massive mountain, then supernaturally show everything. Why not do it right where they are standing? There is no need for the mountain bit if you interject supernaturally into it.

You are looking at the scriptures and looking for fault. I am viewing the scriptures as the word of God and view them as truth.

We each have our perspective.

I'm not looking for fault, I'm refuting what YOU are saying, not what the bible says. It has nothing to do with how I interpret scripture.
You claim that

The bible is literally true unless it literally states otherwise.

And then you change the wording of a story in order to fit that view. It doesn't say supernaturally, it doesn't say figuratively. It offers nothing more than a literal interpretation.

 

[bibleberean]

No man can see all the kingdoms of the earth and the glory of them in an instant.

Jesus has already been taken to the top of a mountain and transported to a temple after He fasted forty days and forty nights.

I don't have to prove anything to a skeptic.

No matter what evidence, common sense or logic is given it will be dismissed.

If I don't respond to your all comments anymore it isn't personal or that I want to ignore you it is just because I don't want to waste my time.

The questions and issues you are bringing up I have already answered.

It is your prerogative to reject my answers and that is fine with me...

No problemo...:D

 

[Asimov]

No man can see all the kingdoms of the earth and the glory of them in an instant.

Jesus has already been taken to the top of a mountain and transported to a temple after He fasted forty days and forty nights.

That doesn't matter, there is nothing that says "And Satan magically showed Jesus the kingdoms of the earth." It states very simplistically that Satan showed him the kingdoms of the earth on a huge mountain.

The fact that Satan had to bring Jesus up to a massive mountain to show him all the kingdoms of the earth alludes to it's literal context.

I don't have to prove anything to a skeptic.

No matter what evidence, common sense or logic is given it will be dismissed.

You haven't provided evidence, common sense, or logic.

Satan wants to show Jesus all the kingdoms of the earth. If he did this supernaturally, logically he could do it anywhere. But if one takes into account the belief that the Earth was a circle, taking him to a huge mountain to show the kingdoms of the earth is the logical course to take.

It's common sense from the reference of a Hebrew person who thinks the earth is a disk. It lacks common sense if one looks at it with the knowledge we have now, so you interpret it figuratively to fit this idea.

If I don't respond to your all comments anymore it isn't personal or that I want to ignore you it is just because I don't want to waste my time.

The questions and issues you are bringing up I have already answered.

It is your prerogative to reject my answers and that is fine with me...

No problemo...:D

Good way to backpedal and then concede; accuse me of being close-minded.

 

[Guest]

:D Asimov,bibleberean has explained it to you.
The bible is literal and it is spiritual. Jesus can view the
whole world and he could then too.
There is nothing that isn't literal about this.
You have your mind made up so how can you expect any
christian to debate with you as long as you won't listen to
them about anything?

 

[Asimov]

Asimov,bibleberean has explained it to you.
The bible is literal and it is spiritual. Jesus can view the
whole world and he could then too.
There is nothing that isn't literal about this.
You have your mind made up so how can you expect any
christian to debate with you as long as you won't listen to
them about anything?

But he needs to go up to the highest mountains to see the whole world, alluding the a flat earth belief.

 

[Guest]

Asimov,bibleberean has explained it to you.
The bible is literal and it is spiritual. Jesus can view the
whole world and he could then too.
There is nothing that isn't literal about this.
You have your mind made up so how can you expect any
christian to debate with you as long as you won't listen to
them about anything?

But he needs to go up to the highest mountains to see the whole world, alluding the a flat earth belief.

:wink: Thats not true asimov. First of all,you are treating Jesus Christ
as if he was just a man. Jesus was and is Man and God.
Jesus could do these things,but you are not allowing yourself to accept this.
Also,how many Kingdoms were around then?
Would you be so kind as to show us where the christians claim that the
earth is flat and who they are? Jesus can do things that we cannot.