Scriptural fundamentalism & literal interpretation

[OzSpen]

Pirates massacre Dodgers....

I'm going to read that figuratively

ISIS beheads Christian..... gonna read that literally

Context is everything.

John,

To the contrary, 'Pirates massacre Dodgers', is an example of metaphor, that is included in any literal interpretation of a text. I think you are referring to letterism or literalism instead of literal interpretation.

What is letterism? 'It is a wooden, thin interpretation that fails to go beyond the standard meanings of words and expressions ... or to discern the manner in which an author attends to these meanings.... Hence literalism [like letterism] short-circuits the literal sense insofar as it fails to appreciate the author's intention to give his or her utterance a certain kind of force' (Vanhoozer1998:311).

Oz

Works consulted
Vanhoozer, K J 1998. Is There a Meaning in This Text? Leicester, England: Apollos (an imprint of Inter-Varsity Press).

 

[Edward]

If we were supposed to read most or all of the Bible metaphorically, wouldn't it tell us to in scripture?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Literal or metaphor?
"4Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." (Deuteronomy 25:4 NASB)

 

[for_his_glory]

FHG,

Fictional and non-fictional are types of literature. That is not a way of describing hermeneutics - interpretation. Let's pursue the meaning of literal interpretation:

Encyclopaedia Britannica provides this definition of 'Literal interpretation' (online): 'Literal interpretation asserts that a biblical text is to be interpreted according to the “plain meaning” conveyed by its grammatical construction and historical context. The literal meaning is held to correspond to the intention of the authors'.

Dr Vern Poythress in his article, 'What is literal interpretation?' states that there are 'at least three plausible ways of talking about literal meaning'. These three ways are:

1. 'The literal meaning of a word is the meaning that native speakers are most likely to think of when they are asked about the word in isolation (that is, apart from any context in a particular sentence or discourse)'. This is what he calls the 'first thought' meaning.
2. 'We could imagine reading passages as organic wholes, but reading them in the most prosaic way possible. We would allow ourselves to recognize obvious figures of speech, but nothing beyond the most obvious'.
3. 'One reads passages as organic wholes and tries to understand what each passage expresses against the background of the original human author and the original situation. One asks what understanding and inferences would be justified or warranted at the time the passage was written. This interpretation aims to express the meanings that human authors express'.

A leading seminary text on hermeneutics, A Berkeley Mickelsen (this is the one I used in seminary for my MA) concludes that:

He provided an exposition that led him to that conclusion.

I have attempted to address this further in my articles:

• What is the meaning of the literal interpretation of the Bible?

• Isn’t it obvious what a literal interpretation of Scripture means?

The end result is that literal interpretation means that a person reads any text (not just the Bible), taking into consideration the meaning of the words, grammar, figures of speech, and context. All of that is included in literal interpretation. It seems to me that some Christians get hung up on letterism vs literal interpretation.

I do hope you read this post by means of literal interpretation to gain the meaning of what I'm trying to communicate.

Oz

Works consulted

Mickelsen, A B 1963. Interpreting the Bible. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.

Yet many spiritual things in scripture are likened unto literal things and literal likened unto spiritual things, especially in the parables and also in Revelations. God could have made it easy for us, but the carnal can only understand that which is literal, but can not understand that of the Spiritual. John 3:12; 16:12,13 are a good example.

 

[Butch5]

The problem with everything but a literal understanding is that it is subjective and open to interpretation.

 

[Edward]

John,

To the contrary, 'Pirates massacre Dodgers', is an example of metaphor, that is included in any literal interpretation of a text. I think you are referring to letterism or literalism instead of literal interpretation.

What is letterism? 'It is a wooden, thin interpretation that fails to go beyond the standard meanings of words and expressions ... or to discern the manner in which an author attends to these meanings.... Hence literalism [like letterism] short-circuits the literal sense insofar as it fails to appreciate the author's intention to give his or her utterance a certain kind of force' (Vanhoozer1998:311).

Oz

Works consulted
Vanhoozer, K J 1998. Is There a Meaning in This Text? Leicester, England: Apollos (an imprint of Inter-Varsity Press).

That's a good example of a metaphor. It's not hard to comprehend it as a metaphor either. It's obviously a metaphor.

The literal history is the same way. Take Genesis for instance (there's a lot of debate about Genesis)... It seems, from how it reads to be obviously literal history...

But the Genesis metaphor crowd are um, adamant about it being allegory or metaphor...vociferous even. Yet can't seem to come up with the metaphor for it. They can't tell me what it "really means", only that, I'm wrong it's not literal.

One would think a metaphor which made me go doh! Would be put forth, because it was so obvious. Like the Pirates massacring the Dodgers and beating them bad.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So you use:

• Literal interpretation, and
• Some other method of interpretation.

Both, if there is a metaphorical interpretation to be gleaned from the passage.

What do you understand by 'literal interpretation'?

What the words literally mean.

Which other method(s) of interpretation do you use with any literature, including the Bible?

I look for figures and types, analogies, etc.
As far as the Bible goes, you'll prolly just end up being a hard nosed Pharisee if you don't plug into the spiritual truths that exist beyond just the literal words of the Bible (no, I'm not talking about Edward ). I've found most strict, to the letter, non-spiritual readers of the Bible to be angry, insensitive, and judgmental. I have found in my own life that it is spiritual revelation contained in the literal words of the Bible that solicits the calming presence and character changing power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The problem with everything but a literal understanding is that it is subjective and open to interpretation.

Not entirely.
Legitimate spiritual insights into literal words is always supported by the Bible and never contradicts it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But the Genesis metaphor crowd are um, adamant about it being allegory or metaphor...vociferous even. Yet can't seem to come up with the metaphor for it. They can't tell me what it "really means", only that, I'm wrong it's not literal.

It's BOTH, literal and spiritual metaphor.
This subject is no different than many others among us Christians. We seem to be only able to think in terms of 'either, or'. But the Bible is both literal and metaphor. The literal does not suddenly become not literal just because the literal points to a metaphorical, spiritual truth.

 

[Butch5]

Not entirely.
Legitimate spiritual insights into literal words is always supported by the Bible and never contradicts it.

What are spiritual insights?

 

[OzSpen]

Oh, you're one of those weirdos too I see, lol.

Back on topic, admittedly, a lot of scripture that is literal, is...weird, scary, and things that we don't want to believe is true. (for the most part at least).

But when read literally, it brings clarity to oh so many other scriptures... then we are compelled to believe the literal account. That's a biggie.

What I've written at #18 demonstrates that literal interpretation includes understanding figures of speech.

• If a metaphor is in the writing, 'I am the door', literal interpretation requires its being treated as a metaphor.
• If a simile is included, 'He is like a dead man walking', that is part of literal interpretation.
• The pillar of cloud and fire is a symbol of guidance (Ex 13:21). All this is included in literal interpretation.
• Then we have parable after parable in Matt 13 (ESV). These are figures of speech that are part of literal interpretation.

The problems arise when we want literal interpretation to be synonymous with literalism. Literalism means: 'adherence to the explicit substance of an idea or expression' (Merriam-Webster dictionary 2016. s v literalism).

Dr George Caird was a British theologian and biblical scholar who stated that 'whenever Christians have attempted to give to the scriptures a sense other than the plain sense intended by those who wrote them, Christianity has been in danger of running out into the sands of Gnosticism' (Caird 1994:422).

Umberto Eco rightly stated that 'every discourse on the freedom of interpretation must start from a defense of the literal sense' (Eco 1990:58).

So, Edward, I have attempted to provide evidence of the meaning of literal interpretation for any document. If we don't start with clarifying this definition, it will get us into all sorts of bother with the text and making it fit our preconceived ways. Bother that may lead to Gnosticism or postomodern distortion.

Works consulted
Caird, G B 1994. New Testament Theology, ed & completed by L D Hurst. Oxford: Clarendon.
Eco, U 1990. The Limits of Interpretation. Bloomington: Indiana University Press.

 

[OzSpen]

It's BOTH, literal and spiritual metaphor.
This subject is no different than many others among us Christians. We seem to be only able to think in terms of 'either, or'. But the Bible is both literal and metaphor. The literal does not suddenly become not literal just because the literal points to a metaphorical, spiritual truth.

That is not so for those who have pursued this topic in depth. Literal interpretation includes metaphor and all other figures of speech. We must get this right. If we don't understand the meaning literal interpretation, we will make statements like you have made of a document being 'both literal and spiritual metaphor'.

No, a document must be given literal interpretation (as I have defined) and there will be spiritual APPLICATIONS and insight. But these applications and insight do not refer to fundamental hermeneutics.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I read everything literally unless there is a reason to believe it is figurative. Isn't that how we read everything?

How do you define 'literally'? What is your understanding of 'figurative'? I need some basic definitions before I can agree or disagree with your statement.

 

[OzSpen]

I am just trying to figure out what you are saying. Many of your posts are way over my head...

I'm sorry Reba for that and I appreciate your drawing that to my attention. I'll do my best to make some changes.

My fundamental questions are:

1. What is scriptural fundamentalism?
   
2. Do you support literal interpretation of any text, whether that be the Bible or the local newspaper? If so, what is your understanding of the meaning of literal interpretation?

Blessings,
Oz

 

[OzSpen]

If we were supposed to read most or all of the Bible metaphorically, wouldn't it tell us to in scripture?

Is the Bible a book on hermeneutics (biblical interpretation)? Or, is it a book to be read like any other document with the same interpretive principles that we use for a text book at school?

There are times when the Bible does tell us that a certain figure of speech is being used. Matt 13 (ESV) contains a number of parables and they are called parables, but he does not give us the definition of a parable. We are left to determine that from (1) the content of the parable, or (2) from those who have studied the nature of parables.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Yet many spiritual things in scripture are likened unto literal things and literal likened unto spiritual things, especially in the parables and also in Revelations. God could have made it easy for us, but the carnal can only understand that which is literal, but can not understand that of the Spiritual. John 3:12; 16:12,13 are a good example.

Why didn't you deal with the content of what I wrote about literal interpretation. Seems as though I could be wasting my time in preparing extended explanations of the meaning of literal interpretation.

Your explanation about spiritual things likened to literal things and vice versa sounds awfully like contemporary Gnosticism in action. See 'Gnosticism & the Gnostic Jesus' by Douglas Groothuis.

Oz

 

[Edward]

Literal or metaphor?
"4Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." (Deuteronomy 25:4 NASB)

Literal.
It's only fair.

 

[Butch5]

How do you define 'literally'? What is your understanding of 'figurative'? I need some basic definitions before I can agree or disagree with your statement.

Literally means at face value. The normal everyday meaning of the word. Figurative is using words a metaphors, similes or other such figures.

 

[OzSpen]

That's a good example of a metaphor. It's not hard to comprehend it as a metaphor either. It's obviously a metaphor.

The literal history is the same way. Take Genesis for instance (there's a lot of debate about Genesis)... It seems, from how it reads to be obviously literal history...

But the Genesis metaphor crowd are um, adamant about it being allegory or metaphor...vociferous even. Yet can't seem to come up with the metaphor for it. They can't tell me what it "really means", only that, I'm wrong it's not literal.

One would think a metaphor which made me go doh! Would be put forth, because it was so obvious. Like the Pirates massacring the Dodgers and beating them bad.

I think the discussion of Genesis 1-2 is a specialised area that should go to another thread as there are too many issues and it would get this discussion off track.

 

[OzSpen]

Literally means at face value. The normal everyday meaning of the word. Figurative is using words a metaphors, similes or other such figures.

That is not what those who are experts in that field of interpretation indicate and I've given references to some of them. Literal interpretation means that all figures of speech are included in literal interpretation.