Should Christians Fight In Wars ?

[Drew]

Drew,

2 Peter 1:21
(21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
​

If one is not under the conviction that all of scripture is the word of God, then there is no "proof" from scripture could be convincing.

One could pick and chose any portion of it they wish to be from God or not.

If one takes this approach, then they could just as easily say that Paul (or any other writer) was not moved by the Holy Spirit, but was just giving his opinion.

Sissy, you are avoiding my question from post 116 that speaks to this very issue.

Please answer the question.

 

[jasoncran]

I am not naive. I am prepared to accept being killed before i would kill another person. It's no loss for me. I would get an early mark out of this world. I don't love this world.

If i thought that calling the police would end in my attacker being killed by those police I would not call for them.

Having read Acts 21 with the incident with Paul, he never called for the centurions, they came running because of the uproar and made their intervention. There was no danger of them killing the mob because they grabbed Paul and put him in chains. They where going to scourge Paul.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

thereby enabling the evil to continue unchecked
every have a family member raped, i have, and i myself sexually assaulted in the military by a men. the army calles groping that is unwanted sexual assault.

my sister has had to struggle with the anger and hurt and while she must forgive her assailant. and has had some bad views on men cause of that.

where was here innocence in that picture if one can avoid her going through. does love not protect?

i think so, if any man careth not for his own he is worse then a infidel.


i really dont think you would stand by piously and not help your family when you cant escape and have the means to stop the attacker. lets be real.

 

[jasoncran]

ok then. not all govts are godly but that doenst mean god didnt allow then to rise in power for his purpose.

that said, lewis and drew and myself live in a western country that are democratic, if a war isnt moral one can protest, and that does work. if you doubt, grab a history book and read up on viet nam.

i was raised on the govt schools that the tet offensive was bloody. it was for the enemy. but the books painted as the most uneeded war in recent history, and it was. nam was no threat to us, but that wasnt the case when it came to the presidents of lbj,ike and kennedy. the later two sent us in and lbj really got it going and nixon had to get us out.

why was the pullout done(by the time of nixons effective bombing and the ground troops actually using good tactics and holding taken territory we had the vc near china) this is why they came to us for peace. we bombed then to the peace table.

because of the news reporting the blood bathes and others live casualty reports, the support shifted and the hippies protested and the politicians listened.


so our goveerments last time i checked are still democratic and not under the noahide laws or under the anti-christ.

so we can make a difference on which war we will fight.

 

[peter33]

War's and big battles might be cool to watch in movies (movies like Star Wars and ID4), but in real life its horrifying and noone wants to really be in one. but i do think that God understands the situation our good soldiers are in. battles were fought in the Bible countless times.

 

[Bazz1040]

Should Christians Fight War ?

What did Jesus taught? What did the early Church taught and lived by? If one knows what Jesus taught and lived they would answer No to that question.


Love is what a child of God will show to their enemy


Matthew 5:43-44 (ESV)
<SUP>43 </SUP>"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
<SUP>44 </SUP>But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,


People that use the sword will die by it

Matthew 26:52 (Darby)
<SUP>52 </SUP>Then saith Jesus to him, Return thy sword to its place; for all who take the sword shall perish by the sword.


A child of God leaves it in God's hands to render justice<O:p</O:p

<!--EndFragment-->

Romans 12:19-21 (ESV)
<SUP>19 </SUP>Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord."
<SUP>20 </SUP>To the contrary, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head."
<SUP>21 </SUP>Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.



<!--EndFragment-->
There are many Christians but not all Christians are children of God.


False Christians


Matthew 7:15-16 (GW)
<SUP>15 </SUP>“Beware of false prophets. They come to you disguised as sheep, but in their hearts they are vicious wolves.
<SUP>16 </SUP>You will know them by what they produce. “People don't pick grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles, do they?



<!--EndFragment-->A true child of God
<O:p</O:p
<O:pMatthew 5:9 (KJV)
<SUP>9 </SUP>Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.



<!--EndFragment--></O:p

 

[Strangelove]

i really dont think you would stand by piously and not help your family when you cant escape and have the means to stop the attacker. lets be real.

Many Christians would use physical measures to stop an attacker in our homes. It's a natural human reaction. But that doesnt mean its right. God will judge every case on its own merits however. He will judge the heart.

If someone knowingly joins a system that is invading sovereign states and killing innocent civilians...men, women and children....brutally and without just cause THAT IS CLEARLY WRONG.....and not Christian.

There is a definate difference Jason. You can't keep playing the self defence card buddy. The thread is Should Christians Fight In Wars ?

 

[Strangelove]

ok then. not all govts are godly but that doenst mean god didnt allow then to rise in power for his purpose.

There ya go. Glad you can admit it. So how do we tell the difference? Fruit maybe? Compare 30's Nazi Germany to Amerika today. Compare the suffocating police state laws. Compare the dictatorial power grab leaderships. Notice anything similar?

Right....everything Satan does is with the ultimate permission of God. Standard. That doesn't effect our discussion.

that said, lewis and drew and myself live in a western country that are democratic,

Lolz. Its supposed to be a constitutional republic, NOT a democracy....but never mind. The brainwashing and the buzzwords are so powerful. "fightin' for democracy!...hooah!"

if a war isnt moral one can protest, and that does work. if you doubt, grab a history book and read up on viet nam.

You have GOT to be kidding me with this one right? Grab a history book? LOL!

“History is written by the victors.†- Winston Churcill

"History is a set of lies agreed upon.†- Napoleon Bonaparte

i was raised on the govt schools that the tet offensive was bloody. it was for the enemy. but the books painted as the most uneeded war in recent history, and it was. nam was no threat to us, but that wasnt the case when it came to the presidents of lbj,ike and kennedy. the later two sent us in and lbj really got it going and nixon had to get us out.

why was the pullout done(by the time of nixons effective bombing and the ground troops actually using good tactics and holding taken territory we had the vc near china) this is why they came to us for peace. we bombed then to the peace table.

because of the news reporting the blood bathes and others live casualty reports, the support shifted and the hippies protested and the politicians listened.

So make up your mind, did Nam end cos of the hippies protesting or cos you bombed the viet cong to the peace table?

Lets face it. There was only one timetable going on. We were in there for 10 YEARS! Perrrrlease. The guys in charge came out when they were good and reeady and not a moment sooner.

so our goverments last time i checked are still democratic

I think I just heard a founding father turn in is grave at that comment.

so we can make a difference on which war we will fight.

Oh boy. How long have we been in Iraq and Afghanistan now? And you already admitted that they are illegal and unjust? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh Brother.

 

[Strangelove]

What did Jesus taught? What did the early Church taught and lived by? If one knows what Jesus taught and lived they would answer No to that question.


Love is what a child of God will show to their enemy<!--EndFragment--></O:p

Hooray! Another Christian against war. Glad to have you on board BazzMeister.

Things are evening up a bit now arn't they eh?

This reminds me of the Mystery, Babylon the Great thread.

Who's next?

Everybody now......1.....2.....3.....JESUS!

 

[jasoncran]

There ya go. Glad you can admit it. So how do we tell the difference? Fruit maybe? Compare 30's Nazi Germany to Amerika today. Compare the suffocating police state laws. Compare the dictatorial power grab leaderships. Notice anything similar?

Right....everything Satan does is with the ultimate permission of God. Standard. That doesn't effect our discussion.



Lolz. Its supposed to be a constitutional republic, NOT a democracy....but never mind. The brainwashing and the buzzwords are so powerful. "fightin' for democracy!...hooah!"



You have GOT to be kidding me with this one right? Grab a history book? LOL!

“History is written by the victors.†- Winston Churcill

"History is a set of lies agreed upon.†- Napoleon Bonaparte



So make up your mind, did Nam end cos of the hippies protesting or cos you bombed the viet cong to the peace table?

Lets face it. There was only one timetable going on. We were in there for 10 YEARS! Perrrrlease. The guys in charge came out when they were good and reeady and not a moment sooner.



I think I just heard a founding father turn in is grave at that comment.



Oh boy. How long have we been in Iraq and Afghanistan now? And you already admitted that they are illegal and unjust? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh Brother.

did i say that they were illegal? nope,. i said that it was a mistake,(iraq) was sadaam hussein a good man? and a blessing to the kurds nope. its called picking your fights. iraq at one time did indeed have those weapons, bush did what he thought was good, and i dont hold that against him if he was wrong. we dont know the intel reports he got.

like i said i will listen to your conspirenicies when you are rich enough to pay me not to depend on ss,nor my pensions from the govt and or i am forced off the system. till then i wont bother. i have a wife who needs medical attention routinely and cant afford to the meds on my own.

practicality dictates my life.

would you also say the clinton was wrong bombing kosovo? we did that unilateraly and it worked and saved lives. the u.n. didnt approve that bombing, nor did congress if i recall correctly.

so jesus tells the apostles to buys swords and scripts and not to use the sword later?

makes no sense if take that verse like you all want me to.

 

[jasoncran]

please, that was what a history major and officer told me on nam.

that is why you look at other sources. not just one. we wanted to get out by the vc saw that as weakness and wanted to win not for us to surrender too soon. so we made them submit.

sl. you dont even live in america.

lol police state, odd i can still talk on the internet and even protest the goverment today.

like i said i will take leave of my obligations when you have the wherewithal to pay me not to serve, and also not to be on govt pensions.

which is easier to control the populous take food away by the pensions or by force. the former will work most effictively if you doubt that see what france is going through. strikes over the idea that age of retirement will be up from 60 to 62.

 

[jasoncran]

Many Christians would use physical measures to stop an attacker in our homes. It's a natural human reaction. But that doesnt mean its right. God will judge every case on its own merits however. He will judge the heart.

If someone knowingly joins a system that is invading sovereign states and killing innocent civilians...men, women and children....brutally and without just cause THAT IS CLEARLY WRONG.....and not Christian.

There is a definate difference Jason. You can't keep playing the self defence card buddy. The thread is Should Christians Fight In Wars ?

well show me the oporder that tells me that we killed civilians at will.

what you cant?
show me the deliberate bombimg of civilians by the u.s as in we AIMED bombs at them.

ok then i will ask you this?

if by a man bloods in sin you benefit , then are you just as not as guilty?

the internet was at first designed by military and others added to it over the years.
use gps, part of that system

wait, it gets better.

cured of malaria
military figured that one out
treated for frostbite and recovered thanks to military
blood transfusions
thanks to the military.


so then please dont see a doc for anything as alot of it comes from lessons learned in war.

 

[Bazz1040]

Hooray! Another Christian against war. Glad to have you on board BazzMeister.

Things are evening up a bit now arn't they eh?

This reminds me of the Mystery, Babylon the Great thread.

Who's next?

Everybody now......1.....2.....3.....JESUS!

I am amazed that some can't see that going to war against one's enemy it’s contrary to what Jesus stood for. But then again, not everyone that claims to be converted is. Even though Jesus was a Jew by birth, He never claimed that the Jewish Nation was His Nation or Country. He said if His kingdom was of this world, His servants would fight. So because some people on this board believes that they are of this world so they have to fight in order to protect what they have…….their kingdom is not Jesus’ kingdom.<O:p</O:p

 

[Bazz1040]

well show me the oporder that tells me that we killed civilians at will.

what you cant?
show me the deliberate bombimg of civilians by the u.s as in we AIMED bombs at them.

ok then i will ask you this?

if by a man bloods in sin you benefit , then are you just as not as guilty?

the internet was at first designed by military and others added to it over the years.
use gps, part of that system

wait, it gets better.

cured of malaria
military figured that one out
treated for frostbite and recovered thanks to military
blood transfusions
thanks to the military.


so then please dont see a doc for anything as alot of it comes from lessons learned in war.

The foot soldiers more often than not are not told the details of their mission. So they could be killing the innocent and have no idea that is what they are doing. But I have seen video of soldiers deliberately targeting civilians, laughing and giggling after they hit the car of driver passing by going about his business. Some soldiers that have done things like that and later on after leaving the military have confessed they did things like that many times. One day all the truth is going to come out and all those that supported the war, and were a part of it are going to hang their head in shame.<O:p</O:p

 

[jasoncran]

mike said it first not all wars are just, but some are necessary.

that said, that is why i brought up the self-defense thing,
if you harm the guy while defending yourself you just broke that command

if a man smite thee on the left cheek give thine right also, so if you take it that way, then when someone is trying to kill you best not fight back let him kill you or loved ones.

what is soo hard about not being consistent. after all that is returning evil for evil.

can anyone show me that the current iraq invasion was done in spite and have actually evidence that states that he lied knowingly.

oh but the news never ever lies, they wouldnt lie to use would they,

the same news that is run by ...
what jews. lol. they wouldnt try to make us think that going to iraq was illegal when they wanted us their in the first place.

or would they..

 

[Strangelove]

did i say that they were illegal? nope,. i said that it was a mistake,(iraq) was sadaam hussein a good man? and a blessing to the kurds nope. its called picking your fights. iraq at one time did indeed have those weapons, bush did what he thought was good, and i dont hold that against him if he was wrong. we dont know the intel reports he got.

So it was a mistake. We shouldn't be there. But we still are. 8 years later. But you said the american public and make a chioce. So why havn't they?

like i said i will listen to your conspirenicies when you are rich enough to pay me not to depend on ss,nor my pensions from the govt and or i am forced off the system. till then i wont bother. i have a wife who needs medical attention routinely and cant afford to the meds on my own.

So is it just my information you will reject until I give you money or does that count for anyone. Is money the only thing you care about......?

practicality dictates my life.

.....theres our answer. Rightousness should dictate your life Brother.

would you also say the clinton was wrong bombing kosovo? we did that unilateraly and it worked and saved lives. the u.n. didnt approve that bombing, nor did congress if i recall correctly.

Lolz...so not only do the American public have no say on whether you go to war or not, neither does YOUR CONGRESS!

so jesus tells the apostles to buys swords and scripts and not to use the sword later?

makes no sense if take that verse like you all want me to.

Just cos you have sword doesn't mean you have to use it to kill people.

Deterrent in matters of self defence?
Butchering animals?

He wasn't telling them to go off and invade.

 

[Strangelove]

please, that was what a history major and officer told me on nam.

So now instead of picking up a history book I need to trust you and your buddy?

that is why you look at other sources. not just one. we wanted to get out by the vc saw that as weakness and wanted to win not for us to surrender too soon. so we made them submit.

Is it the same in Iraq? This is warped. It's called a QUAGMIRE. And the government WANTED it.

sl. you dont even live in america.

lol police state, odd i can still talk on the internet and even protest the goverment today.

I wouldn't expect you to recognise it. Obama can change everything in a blink of an eye. You even acknowledge his power grab... and yet you still dont see a police state?

like i said i will take leave of my obligations when you have the wherewithal to pay me not to serve, and also not to be on govt pensions.

Does Jesus need to pay you money before you will obey his commandments?

 

[jasoncran]

no, i dont buy your arguments that on the evil american govt, thats why.

and well last time i checked money works, not blogging

and who would pay for my wifes care..you,lol
nope. and who would pay for my house or retirement.
i am not inclined nor convicted to get out of the military at this point

we attacked kosovo for the mini-holocaust. should we then just let them kill each other?


uh, obama, has kept one of his promises , get us out of iraq and iraq is no longer declared a war. the combat troops are gone.

you cant just mess up a country and expect it to get better when you pull out. ever heard of saving face and or exit stragety. we are actually trying to teach the iraquis how to govern them selves and assist them in that effort.

now then on that sword.

ever heard of bandits? quite common then to be robbed. so then that sword could be used to butcher animals but then again i think a bow would be more effective in killing the critter first and then a knife to cut them open.

so if that sword is used to stop the bandits from harming you and you must slay the guy since he may want to kidnap you and sell you as a slave. does that not mean you would violate that command?

 

[Strangelove]

can anyone show me that the current iraq invasion was done in spite and have actually evidence that states that he lied knowingly.

Whats the point. Even if we gave you the info you wouldn't accept it before you recieved a monetary payment from us.

 

[Strangelove]

I am amazed that some can't see that going to war against one's enemy it’s contrary to what Jesus stood for. But then again, not everyone that claims to be converted is. Even though Jesus was a Jew by birth, He never claimed that the Jewish Nation was His Nation or Country. He said if His kingdom was of this world, His servants would fight. So because some people on this board believes that they are of this world so they have to fight in order to protect what they have…….their kingdom is not Jesus’ kingdom.<O:p</O:p

So true.

It's staggering isn't it Bazzmeister?

 

[jasoncran]

not really.

i dont buy your sources as they arent reall impressive, just a bunch of new sensalisism.

you nor i dont have acesss to those nsa meetings. its called trust, we have to trust and rely on faitht that our leaders didnt act in malice.

having been there and carry out orders that the chain of command has given to me. we arent in iraq nor afghanistan to kill civilians nor dominate them.

last time i checked both countries had elections and the people choose. i was in afghanistan for thier first election. for the first time in thier history women voted and girls were being educated.

but that is evil to you. compareing what the russians did,(slaughter afghanis en masse, and i have seen the graves.) to what we are trying to do hunt osama and also rebuild then is a false dichotomy.

when the russians left they poisoned water supplies and also destroyed irrigations systems. we havent done that nor will we.

if we cant trust our govt to some level of fidel then how can the u.s christians then in good faith accept money for food from the govt if we take your grand conspiracy theory?

after all were the food is people will eat.