Should Christians Fight In Wars ?

[Strangelove]

no, i dont buy your arguments that on the evil american govt, thats why.

I'm having a sale on my arguments if your interested Jas. 70% off.

and well last time i checked money works, not blogging

Rightousness works even better.

and who would pay for my wifes care..you,lol
nope. and who would pay for my house or retirement.
i am not inclined nor convicted to get out of the military at this point

Can't you get another job? You can come out here to thailand and learn to be a scuba instructer in 4 months. Medical bills are really cheap too and good doctors

we attacked kosovo for the mini-holocaust. should we then just let them kill each other?

The same people who caused the holocaust ordered the invasion.

It's called the Hegelian Dialect. Problem - Reaction - Solution. Works every time.

uh, obama, has kept one of his promises , get us out of iraq and iraq is no longer declared a war. the combat troops are gone.

This is news to me. Documentation please. The Iraq war is over.

you cant just mess up a country and expect it to get better when you pull out. ever heard of saving face and or exit stragety. we are actually trying to teach the iraquis how to govern them selves and assist them in that effort.

Oh beautiful. Spoken like a true White House spokesman. Textbook!

now then on that sword.

ever heard of bandits? quite common then to be robbed. so then that sword could be used to butcher animals but then again i think a bow would be more effective in killing the critter first and then a knife to cut them open.

so if that sword is used to stop the bandits from harming you and you must slay the guy since he may want to kidnap you and sell you as a slave. does that not mean you would violate that command?

Can you quote the scripture your talking about please.

And by the way when you say "ever heard of....?" it comes over extremely condiscending. Just sayin'.

 

[jasoncran]

let me give you a clue of what i deal with daily. my wife has at times struck me physically in anger when i have made mistakes, and has extreme mood swings. i have had to use my bjj on her and i did it without hurting her at all. just stopped her from hurting me and calmed her down.this doesnt happen alot.

that is from not taking meds, i have to convice to take them as she is a bi-polar and cant work. so she collects disablity and i have to take up the slack. i work alot to do that.

there are no jobs here, wonderful recession. at least none that would pay me over 8 bucks an hour.
i make double that already.


lets see what does the war powers act say? that the president has to ask congress to declare war if after thirty days we have combat troops in a country, and we pulled them out of afghanistan

truckers, and support units and to include mps arent combat troops

these are
calvary units
armor units
infantry
artillery
aviation units that have rotary or fixed wing war birds.

those are gone and pulled out.

 

[jasoncran]

the jews killing themselves that make sense. not.

 

[Elijah674]

No. Things cannot be as simple as this. The author of Ecclesiastes makes numerous statements about the vanity of life. This is not the voice of the Holy Spirit! This is the voice of a man who does not have the entire picture.

Sissy, a direct question for you: If things are as you say - that the Holy Spirit is behind everything in Ecclesiastes, are you saying that God is saying this:

That which has been is that which will be,
And that which has been done is that which will be done.
So there is nothing new under the sun

If this is to be understood as the expression of divinely inspired truth, then please explain how, if "that which has been" is indeed "that which will be", then how do you explain this:

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away,

Which writer is correct, sissy? They certainly both can't be right. The author of Ecceliastes believes that things never change - that the future will be the same as the past. The author of Revelation sees that there will be a radical transformation to the world in the future.

I think the author of Revelation has the truth here and that the author of Ecclesiastes has only a partial understading of the big picture of what God is doing.

But I will be interested to see how you defend the view that, since the Holy Spirit is the author of both books - that, one the one hand, nothing ever changes, but on the other, that there will be a new heaven and a new earth.

:fightNo fighting in your war! (just kidding with the pic)
Yet the [[post]] is the FLAW & needs to be straightened out for us. First off all of Eccl. IS FROM INSPIRATION! 1 Peter 1:20-21 'KNOWING THIS [FIRST]'! And then about explaining the verses??
Compare Eccl. 1:9-10 with Eccl. 3:15 and then you say what?? What you ARE SAYING, truely is NOTHING NEW. But think of the OT & then the repeat of the NT ENDING? Think about the Earth before creation & then after Christ comes back the Second Time? (Jer. 4:22-27) Think about old Israel & then New Israel on Rev. 3:17 also being Spewed OUT. And Christ crucifixion & then Heb. 6?

Your posted material, OK? Sure,there are a few times that God explains the opposite of His Eccl. Inspired documentations. Such as a world flood not happening again, + Hosea 4:6 being what the Eternal Gospel is [ALL ABOUT] that [SIN WILL NOT ARISE A SECOND TIME!] But there is so very few times that there is NO SECOND REPEAT (Nothing New, or what was before will be again, or what was behind will repeat) that God gave us these rather than the other way around! Even take a peek at Gen. 41:30-32 'double DOCUMENTATION' (REPEAT) 'TWICE' as the Eccl. verses have done! (both chapters) Do not be afraid to take God at HIS INSPIRED WORD
thinking that He might be wrong! Even think what was BEFORE Adam's first born son that fell from Grace? Go into Eze. 28 for that one! First born?? First of the Lord's Creation? (sure!)

OK: WAR? What is confusing for all seems to be OT & then NT Theorcracy. God was His own Government in the OT called His Therocracy. He was with His OWN while satan hads won over Adam domain. + humanity from Cain on. And sin was dealt with even with Cain in Gen. 4:7 & Joshua 7's Achan sin. Both times they were given several oppurtunities to repent knowing what would be their 'final' fate.

And in the NT we see God seperating His Theocracy with giving His Powers to what Christ had won back as in Rom. 13. And this seperated the Church from Caesar as Christ had documented. Also we see that the Church was to be their own Christian Government with the whole Covenant Ten as in Matt. 18:17-18.

And Rom. 13 has Caesar govering ONLY the second Commandment from the sixth one on as our duty to mankind. And sure, these were conditional Governments as LAMBLIKE! (at the start) And the Church also was CONDITIONAL as well in authority to the Eternal Requirements of the Godheads Eternal Covenant Royal TEN?? See Rev. 2:5

So WAR is what?? See Acts 5:27-2*9! God is ALWAYS TO BE OBEYED BEFORE MAN! Note that they ALLsaid this in the verse. And what could our duty to Caesar still be?? We could be drafted by Caesar & go into even the war zone as conscientious objector which many have done. And that would be my required of God duty as 'i' see it.

I hope that this helps?

--Elijah

 

[Strangelove]

I hope that this helps?

--Elijah

LOLZ!

?

Gimme 6 months with that post while I get my decryption team on it and I'll let you know dude.

 

[Strangelove]

lets see what does the war powers act say? that the president has to ask congress to declare war if after thirty days we have combat troops in a country, and we pulled them out of afghanistan

truckers, and support units and to include mps arent combat troops

these are
calvary units
armor units
infantry
artillery
aviation units that have rotary or fixed wing war birds.

those are gone and pulled out.

Of course. We've hammered them into the stone age. All we need now is the occupation forces. Security. Supplies etc.

Hmmmm.....pull em out then send em back in under a different name. Truckers? Support units? Can we read MERCENARIES and Private Security companys like Blackwater or whatever name they've morphed into now?

The war in Iraq continues. Occupation continues. Afghanistan war continues. The heroin trade continues and gets bigger. You know its wrong but you cant stop it. Becaue you have NO say.

You are towing the company line. America is not what you think it is.

Do you know what the Fasci is?

 

[Strangelove]

the jews killing themselves that make sense. not.

Are the Synagogue of Satan Jews?

 

[Adstar]

No, the evil won't have eternal life.
No one is guaranteed to have a long lifetime.
All the more to stress the importance of the good news to folks NOW.
Which is what John the Baptist continually stressed. The time to repent is NOW.
And the parable of the wealthy man and Lazarus expresses the same thought. No one should be under the delusion that they will have more time to repent.

Doesn't sound strange to me. A Christian has eternal life. The second death has no power over them.

Should we send all the children and Christians to the front lines to be killed first, so the evil ones can have more time?

There is always two sides to consider,
We shouldn't pick one and say, "This is the way it should always be, PERIOD".
I believe that is the reason the Holy Spirit gave us such passages as Ecclesiastes 3 (there is a time for everything).
You have to look at all the options and count the cost.
And the Lord tells us that war is one of the times when the cost must be counted.

Yes there is a time for war and that is When God orders us to war. Not when we think its a good time to go to war. The past 2000 years has been a age of grace and this has not been a time to go to War. The next time we will be going to war is upon the retun of the Messiah Jesus when we shall come with Him and destroy the army of the beast. Before then No waring by orders of our Commander and Chief the Messiah Jesus.

• Luke 14

(28) For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
(29) Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
(30) Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
(31) Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
​

Nice scripture. A parable. Nothing what so ever to do with what the message the Messiah Jesus gave us about loving our enemies and not resisting an evil person.

• 
  There are two sides of this coin to consider.
  They are also a threat to the faithful, as witnessed throughout scripture.
  The allure and deception of evil is strong and will turn the hearts of many.
  
  So, the flip side question is ..... do we allow evil to live and risk turning the hearts of our children, causing more to be damned?

• 
  
  And what do you think happens when you teach your children wilful rebellion against the will of Jesus? Teaching them the catholic doctrine of justifiable war? Now the crunch comes. Who is the Jesus one believes? The One who said Love your brothers and do not resist and evil person, or the balaam jesus fabricated by the catholic church, put into service for the needs of the prince of this world and his kings?
  
  
  
  We don't know that.
  As pointed out already, there was at least one Roman centurion who was faithful while still having the occupation of a soldier.
  How many more there were, we do not know.
  
  There where no Christian gentiles until Paul began his ministry to them. So some gentiles saw the signs of Jesus and trusted in Him as a great doer of miracles. That does not make them Christian. to them he could have been a manifestation of any god. Many of the Jews saw the miracles of Jesus and believed he was a prophet. But that did not make them Christians.
  
  
  
  

  • 
    Not entirely accurate.
    Very early in Jesus' ministry, He witnesses to the Samaritan woman at the well.

  • 
    
    Then the question must be asked where the Samaritan people looked upon by Jesus as gentiles? If the words of Jesus is true and he said He had come only for the Jewish people, then maybe the belief of the Jewish people that the Samaritans where not part of them was wrong. Jesus knows best.
    
    
    
    All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

thereby enabling the evil to continue unchecked
every have a family member raped, i have, and i myself sexually assaulted in the military by a men. the army calles groping that is unwanted sexual assault.

my sister has had to struggle with the anger and hurt and while she must forgive her assailant. and has had some bad views on men cause of that.

where was here innocence in that picture if one can avoid her going through. does love not protect?

i think so, if any man careth not for his own he is worse then a infidel.

I was wondering when the "if any man careth not for his own he is worse then a infidel" quotes would come out. Par for the course if one believes in non-resistance.

Evil has existed in this world since the day we obtained the knowledge of good and evil. No battle or war or killing not even on the recent epic scale of the last 100 years has brought evil to an end. So to be provoked into fighting evil with carnal weapons only gives evil a victory over you.

What did the OT prophet Balaam advise the king Balak to do when he was confronted by the multitudes of the Israelites on his border? He told Him that the only way to defeat such a people was to cause them to break their relationship with God and he went about inviting them to His pagan adulterous feasts and to fornicate with his young women so that he could bring the wrath of God down upon their heads. And his tactic worked for a time for a great plague came upon the people and thousands of the Israelites died.

What do you think happens when the deceiving doctrines of this world like justifiable war that sound right to the human perspective but are against the will of the Messiah Jesus are accepted and practiced by followers of Jesus in this world today?

i really dont think you would stand by piously and not help your family when you cant escape and have the means to stop the attacker. lets be real.

My intention would be to try to intervene in any way that would not cause the death of the attacker. I would try to wrestle the man away in order to give my family a change to flee.

But even if i lose my head and go out and kill that attacker i would repent of it to God. i would not go about trying to justify my act of rebellion against his will.



All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[Adstar]

I see a lot of talk about the current world situation. About Iraq about Afghanistan. Discussing this is always a hot topic even in times of peace. But since war now seem to be the normal background state of affairs ( and i suspect will be until the anti-christ comes and establishes the false peace) It's a topic that is even more passionate. But it cannot be avoided nor should it be, it is very important. More important than the war/wars and talk of wars going on now.

Everyone has to finally come to listen to the message of Jesus on this issue and trust in Him and be a follower. Because all the fighting and all the vain struggles of the flesh going on now is vanity and a waste of time. We all know how things will go in these end times. We got to stop marching to the agents of satans tune and truly place our trust in Jesus. We are all going to die. (or be ruptured) so what is the point of fighting and killing to protect this pathetic flesh life in this imperfect world. Why do people kill to protect something that falls so far short of what God has promised us through the Messiah Jesus in eternity.

Stop loving the world. Stop fighting over the rancid bones they throw contemptuously down for you.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Drew]

thereby enabling the evil to continue unchecked

While I empathize greatly with your position here, we need to remember that one could have used that same line of reasoning with the crucifixion. One could have said something like this to the disciples: "Why are you sitting back and letting this great man get killed, you are enabling the evil to continue unchecked".

The point is this: On the cross, Jesus actually defeated evil through his passive act of non-resistance. Lest we all think that this was a special case, I believe a case can be made that either Jesus and / or Paul teach that the cross is actually an appropriate model for the way we are to deal with the world. For example,

and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

 

[Drew]

I hope that this helps?

Sorry, could not understand the content of your post.

 

[Strangelove]

I see a lot of talk about the current world situation. About Iraq about Afghanistan. Discussing this is always a hot topic even in times of peace. But since war now seem to be the normal background state of affairs ( and i suspect will be until the anti-christ comes and establishes the false peace) It's a topic that is even more passionate. But it cannot be avoided nor should it be, it is very important. More important than the war/wars and talk of wars going on now.

Everyone has to finally come to listen to the message of Jesus on this issue and trust in Him and be a follower. Because all the fighting and all the vain struggles of the flesh going on now is vanity and a waste of time. We all know how things will go in these end times. We got to stop marching to the agents of satans tune and truly place our trust in Jesus. We are all going to die. (or be ruptured) so what is the point of fighting and killing to protect this pathetic flesh life in this imperfect world. Why do people kill to protect something that falls so far short of what God has promised us through the Messiah Jesus in eternity.

Stop loving the world. Stop fighting over the rancid bones they throw contemptuously down for you.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Brilliant.....again Adstar. amen and bless you in everything you do Brother.


Lolz......ruptured. Christians will be ruptured on the battlefield for sure.

 

[Sissy]

Yes there is a time for war and that is When God orders us to war.

When the armies attacked Sodom and took Lot captive, Abram mustered together his own trained army and pursued and slayed them (without any mention of God ordering him to do so).

And it is when Melchizedek (priest of the most high God) blessed him.

Nice scripture. A parable. Nothing what so ever to do with what the message the Messiah Jesus gave us about loving our enemies and not resisting an evil person.

The context is counting the cost before you do something.

• Luke 14

(28) For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
(29) Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
(30) Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
​

Don't build a tower without first counting the cost.
Don't be foolish. First, count the cost.

(31) Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
​

Don't make war without first counting the cost.
Don't be foolish. First, count the cost.

Christ did not say it was wrong to build a tower.
Nor did Christ say it was wrong to make war.

He says one should count the cost first.

And what do you think happens when you teach your children wilful rebellion against the will of Jesus? Teaching them the catholic doctrine of justifiable war?

I do not teach anyone to rebel against the will of Jesus.
Nor do I teach Catholic doctrine.

Now the crunch comes. Who is the Jesus one believes? The One who said Love your brothers and do not resist and evil person, or the balaam jesus fabricated by the catholic church, put into service for the needs of the prince of this world and his kings?

The Christ everyone should believe in is the Christ of the entirety of scripture, from beginning to end.
The Christ who is involved with both war and peace from beginning to end.

There where no Christian gentiles until Paul began his ministry to them. So some gentiles saw the signs of Jesus and trusted in Him as a great doer of miracles. That does not make them Christian. to them he could have been a manifestation of any god. Many of the Jews saw the miracles of Jesus and believed he was a prophet. But that did not make them Christians.

This was the same mindset that many have when they do not take scripture as a whole.

Again, Hebrew 11 (the chapter we call the Hall of Faith) included a Gentile -- Rahab (who is an ancestor of Christ).


To assert that Jesus would commend a centurion of his pagan faith is absurd.

Then the question must be asked where the Samaritan people looked upon by Jesus as gentiles?

Matthew 15
(24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.



Matthew 10
(5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
(6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

[Sissy]

First off all of Eccl. IS FROM INSPIRATION!

Exactly.

Thank you for recognizing that all of scripture is God breathed.

 

[Drew]

Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Don't make war without first counting the cost.
Don't be foolish. First, count the cost.

Christ did not say it was wrong to build a tower.
Nor did Christ say it was wrong to make war.

He says one should count the cost first.

OK, let's see where this logic leads. Here is something that Jesus said:

"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.

Jesus did not say it was wrong to enter another man's house, and steal his stuff....

He just said to be sure that you tie the guy up first

I trust the point is clear......

 

[Drew]

Exactly.

Thank you for recognizing that all of scripture is God breathed.

Please answer the question in post 116. It appears that you are avoiding a question that challenges your position.

Is that why you have not answered the question (there has already been one reminder)? Or is there another reason?

 

[Free]

Perhaps the original question should be: Should Christians fight in just wars?

For the most part, I am against Christians using violence. However, with Remembrance Day coming up, I can't help but be thankful for those who fought for our freedom.

I'm on the fence.

 

[Sissy]

[/COLOR]
OK, let's see where this logic leads. Here is something that Jesus said:

"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.

Jesus did not say it was wrong to enter another man's house, and steal his stuff....

He just said to be sure that you tie the guy up first

I trust the point is clear......

Scripture (you know, the word of God) specifically says theft is wrong.
Scripture does not say being a soldier is wrong.

 

[Strangelove]

Please answer the question in post 116. It appears that you are avoiding a question that challenges your position.

Is that why you have not answered the question (there has already been one reminder)? Or is there another reason?

And I'll ask you this one for the 3rd time Sissy:

Were Christians right to submit to and fight for the Third Reich Nazi army which by your reckoning was God ordained.

No pressure>>>


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