Should Christians Keep the Ten Commandments Today???

[RND]

Whatever anyone says to dispute your claim, you will not believe anyway.

Do you know of anyone that has successfully disputed the word of God which is the foundation I build my claim on?

You continue living under the law and I will live in the grace of Christ and resting in Him.

So what you are saying is that no matter what God's word says you are going to do your own thing.

Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near [me] with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

 

[glorydaz]

Whatever anyone says to dispute your claim, you will not believe anyway.

Do you know of anyone that has successfully disputed the word of God which is the foundation I build my claim on?

You continue living under the law and I will live in the grace of Christ and resting in Him.

So what you are saying is that no matter what God's word says you are going to do your own thing.

Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near [me] with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Here you go...deliberately misrepresenting what's been said in order to justify your Sabbath keeping.
In the first place...you aren't keeping it ...you're keeping a form of it.
The article on rest you posted is nothing more than a sham that few believe to begin with.
Rest does not mean we don't obey the Lord...it means we are no longer under the law of the ten commandments (which is the stone law), we aren't under the Mosaic Law with all it's ordinances, but we are under the laws of grace and faith. It's called liberty, and we don't desire to put ourselves under a law that no man can keep. It's a question of legalism or liberty. Liberty never has been a freedom to sin, and your attempts to make it so are just plain wrong.

You may believe you base your claim of Sabbath keeping on the Word of God, but you don't.

Even a Jew that keeps the whole law (unlike you) will not be saved without the sanctification of the Holy Spirit, because without the Holy Spirit, no one can keep the whole law. Jesus came and made the commandments even more difficult to follow, so we'd see exactly how impossible it is to keep them.
The only way we can keep Jesus' commandments...which hold out a much higher standard than the stone law ever did is because we have the indwelling Holy Spirit. We have Jesus lifting us, teaching us, leading us, guiding us through every step of the day. We walk in obedience to His guiding...we don't have a set of rules to follow, we show forth His love to the world. Not by our following rules but following His Holy Spirit's direction.

 

[DarcyLu]

Here you go...deliberately misrepresenting what's been said in order to justify your Sabbath keeping.
In the first place...you aren't keeping it ...you're keeping a form of it.
The article on rest you posted is nothing more than a sham that few believe to begin with.
Rest does not mean we don't obey the Lord...it means we are no longer under the law of the ten commandments (which is the stone law), we aren't under the Mosaic Law with all it's ordinances, but we are under the laws of grace and faith. It's called liberty, and we don't desire to put ourselves under a law that no man can keep. It's a question of legalism or liberty. Liberty never has been a freedom to sin, and your attempts to make it so are just plain wrong.

You may believe you base your claim of Sabbath keeping on the Word of God, but you don't.

Even a Jew that keeps the whole law (unlike you) will not be saved without the sanctification of the Holy Spirit, because without the Holy Spirit, no one can keep the whole law. Jesus came and made the commandments even more difficult to follow, so we'd see exactly how impossible it is to keep them.
The only way we can keep Jesus' commandments...which hold out a much higher standard than the stone law ever did is because we have the indwelling Holy Spirit. We have Jesus lifting us, teaching us, leading us, guiding us through every step of the day. We walk in obedience to His guiding...we don't have a set of rules to follow, we show forth His love to the world. Not by our following rules but following His Holy Spirit's direction.

Ever wonder where RND goes to make all his animal sacrifices? Better not work on your Sabbath RND or you'll have to be put to death. YIKES!

 

[glorydaz]

Here you go...deliberately misrepresenting what's been said in order to justify your Sabbath keeping.
In the first place...you aren't keeping it ...you're keeping a form of it.
The article on rest you posted is nothing more than a sham that few believe to begin with.
Rest does not mean we don't obey the Lord...it means we are no longer under the law of the ten commandments (which is the stone law), we aren't under the Mosaic Law with all it's ordinances, but we are under the laws of grace and faith. It's called liberty, and we don't desire to put ourselves under a law that no man can keep. It's a question of legalism or liberty. Liberty never has been a freedom to sin, and your attempts to make it so are just plain wrong.

You may believe you base your claim of Sabbath keeping on the Word of God, but you don't.

Even a Jew that keeps the whole law (unlike you) will not be saved without the sanctification of the Holy Spirit, because without the Holy Spirit, no one can keep the whole law. Jesus came and made the commandments even more difficult to follow, so we'd see exactly how impossible it is to keep them.
The only way we can keep Jesus' commandments...which hold out a much higher standard than the stone law ever did is because we have the indwelling Holy Spirit. We have Jesus lifting us, teaching us, leading us, guiding us through every step of the day. We walk in obedience to His guiding...we don't have a set of rules to follow, we show forth His love to the world. Not by our following rules but following His Holy Spirit's direction.

Ever wonder where RND goes to make all his animal sacrifices? Better not work on your Sabbath RND or you'll have to be put to death. YIKES!

If we could actually discuss the Sabbath, the truth could come out, but it's these other points that are brought up to distract that make it impossible for the Word to prove itself. This works-based idea of salvation does nothing but take away from Jesus' work on the cross.

 

[RND]

Here you go...deliberately misrepresenting what's been said in order to justify your Sabbath keeping.

What did I misrepresent?

In the first place...you aren't keeping it ...you're keeping a form of it.

Who made you judge of another man's servant?

The article on rest you posted is nothing more than a sham that few believe to begin with.

What's "a sham" about it? Calling something a sham doesn't make it a sham. Pointing out where the article is wrong would be helpful.

Rest does not mean we don't obey the Lord...it means we are no longer under the law of the ten commandments (which is the stone law), we aren't under the Mosaic Law with all it's ordinances, but we are under the laws of grace and faith.

Has any one ever been saved by keeping the law or has it always been about faith? And how does God know if we are faithful or not?

By obeying Him.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

It's called liberty, and we don't desire to put ourselves under a law that no man can keep.

So your idea of liberty is to do what you want whenever you want?

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

It's a question of legalism or liberty. Liberty never has been a freedom to sin, and your attempts to make it so are just plain wrong.

I see. So if there were no speed limit signs or traffic signals and we were all free from the burdensome restrictions of traffic laws the world would be a better place? You know, less accidents, more curious drivers, etc.

Tell me, why don't we call someone who desires to obey all the laws of this country a "legalist"? Was Joseph a "legalist" because he chose to listen to God and not Potiphar's wife?

You may believe you base your claim of Sabbath keeping on the Word of God, but you don't.

How do you presume to know what I base it on glorydaz?

Even a Jew that keeps the whole law (unlike you) will not be saved without the sanctification of the Holy Spirit, because without the Holy Spirit, no one can keep the whole law.

Again, no one has ever been saved by keeping the law.

Jesus came and made the commandments even more difficult to follow, so we'd see exactly how impossible it is to keep them.

How could He have made the sabbath commandment more difficult to follow by eliminating it?

The only way we can keep Jesus' commandments...which hold out a much higher standard than the stone law ever did is because we have the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Exactly.

We have Jesus lifting us, teaching us, leading us, guiding us through every step of the day.

Great stuff! How is this teaching, leading, and guiding accomplished by removing the law?

We walk in obedience to His guiding...we don't have a set of rules to follow, we show forth His love to the world.

This is confusing. How do we walk in obedience to His guiding if there is no standard to look to?

Not by our following rules but following His Holy Spirit's direction.

Great! I understand. What standard does the Holy Spirit use?

 

[RND]

Ever wonder where RND goes to make all his animal sacrifices?

His knees.

Better not work on your Sabbath RND or you'll have to be put to death. YIKES!

I've already transgressed the law of God so unfortunately I will lose this life. But that's OK because I was promised eternal life by that Jewish carpenter.

Oh, and BTW, I don't work on the Sabbath. I go into prisons on the sabbath. Two of 'em.

 

[DarcyLu]

RND

WHO are we supposed to conform to? The stone tablet OR Jesus. JESUS, our Savior, is whose standard we live up to! God said to conform to His Son. Do you want to manifest a stone table OR Jesus?

You are very confused!

 

[RND]

If we could actually discuss the Sabbath, the truth could come out,

I would love to discuss the beauty of the sabbath.

but it's these other points that are brought up to distract that make it impossible for the Word to prove itself.

You mean the distraction that Jesus is our sabbath and therefore we don't have to obey the word of God?

This works-based idea of salvation does nothing but take away from Jesus' work on the cross.

You tell me of your faith with words, I tell you of my faith by my actions.

Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only

 

[RND]

RND

WHO are we supposed to conform to? The stone tablet OR Jesus.

Well in that Jesus wrote the law, after He spoke it of course, then I would say Jesus. Jesus did keep the sabbath right?

JESUS, our Savior, is whose standard we live up to!

Exactly and He kept the sabbath. I look at it this way: If it was good enough for Him then it's good enough for me.

God said to conform to His Son.

Who spoke and then wrote the Ten Commandments?

Do you want to manifest a stone table OR Jesus?

Jesus of course.

You are very confused!

Not really, just honest with the word.

 

[glorydaz]

RND

WHO are we supposed to conform to? The stone tablet OR Jesus.

Well in that Jesus wrote the law, after He spoke it of course, then I would say Jesus. Jesus did keep the sabbath right?

JESUS, our Savior, is whose standard we live up to!

Exactly and He kept the sabbath. I look at it this way: If it was good enough for Him then it's good enough for me.

[quote:3g8q2qwk]God said to conform to His Son.

Who spoke and then wrote the Ten Commandments?

Do you want to manifest a stone table OR Jesus?

Jesus of course.

You are very confused!

Not really, just honest with the word.[/quote:3g8q2qwk]

No, Jesus did not keep the Sabbath....He became our Sabbath rest.

Whosoever doeth work on the Sabbath would be put to death according to the law.

Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people

Bring no more vain oblations...including the sabbath...it is iniquity. This is all pointing to the work of the cross.

Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah. 10Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. 11To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. 12When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts? 13Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. 14Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. 15And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. 16Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Jesus did work on the Sabbath...therefore, He did not keep the Sabbath law.

16And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

 

[glorydaz]

If we could actually discuss the Sabbath, the truth could come out,

I would love to discuss the beauty of the sabbath.

but it's these other points that are brought up to distract that make it impossible for the Word to prove itself.

You mean the distraction that Jesus is our sabbath and therefore we don't have to obey the word of God?

[quote:29wu7jr7]This works-based idea of salvation does nothing but take away from Jesus' work on the cross.

You tell me of your faith with words, I tell you of my faith by my actions.

Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only[/quote:29wu7jr7]

Don't make false accusations. I have NEVER said we don't obey the word of God.
Our "work" is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. When we believe we are justified unto God.
Our "works" justify us before men. By faith are we saved through grace.
Our "works" do not justify us before God....you've simply misunderstood what James is saying.
By our fruit man can see our faith...whether it be true faith or false faith.

 

[RND]

Don't make false accusations. I have NEVER said we don't obey the word of God.

Just asking questions.

But really isn't saying we aren't under the law suggesting one doesn't have to obey the word of God?

Our "work" is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. When we believe we are justified unto God.

So once we believe in Jesus we have nothing to do? No shut-ins to help? No hungry to feed? No sick to visit? No prisoners to assist?

Our "works" justify us before men. By faith are we saved through grace.

So if we say we believe but have no woks are we really believers?

Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Our "works" do not justify us before God....you've simply misunderstood what James is saying.

No misunderstanding on my part.

Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me. Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

By our fruit man can see our faith..

Which is our works.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

whether it be true faith or false faith.

Exactly. We can say we believe all day long but without works our faith is in vain.

Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[glorydaz]

In the first place...you aren't keeping it ...you're keeping a form of it.

Who made you judge of another man's servant? You did say you didn't know you couldn't travel on the Sabbath. Your own words convict you of breaking the Sabbath law.


[quote:1z48azeg]Rest does not mean we don't obey the Lord...it means we are no longer under the law of the ten commandments (which is the stone law), we aren't under the Mosaic Law with all it's ordinances, but we are under the laws of grace and faith.

Has any one ever been saved by keeping the law or has it always been about faith? And how does God know if we are faithful or not? God looks at our hearts, remember?
By obeying Him.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Ah, read the verse again. Abraham "believed" and it was counted for righteousness.
[quote:1z48azeg] It's called liberty, and we don't desire to put ourselves under a law that no man can keep.

So your idea of liberty is to do what you want whenever you want? [/quote:1z48azeg][/quote:1z48azeg]

Oops, we can go no further with this post because you are, once again, making false accusations based on what I've said. If you keep doing that, this converstion will not go very far.

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus came and made the commandments even more difficult to follow, so we'd see exactly how impossible it is to keep them.

How could He have made the sabbath commandment more difficult to follow by eliminating it?
Because it's always easier for man to claim he is justified by his keeping of the law than it is to obey the leading of the Holy Spirit. Instead of setting aside one day to perform our oblations to God, we are to worship Him every minute of every day.
[quote:26unk0l5]We have Jesus lifting us, teaching us, leading us, guiding us through every step of the day.

Great stuff! How is this teaching, leading, and guiding accomplished by removing the law?
Because the law is bondage. Let's say a man determines he is to set aside one day to keep the Sabbath law, and the Lord wants him to do something else that day. That man then binds himself to the law instead of freeing himself from that bondage to follow the leading of the Spirit.
[quote:26unk0l5]We walk in obedience to His guiding...we don't have a set of rules to follow, we show forth His love to the world.

This is confusing. How do we walk in obedience to His guiding if there is no standard to look to? The standard is love...the royal law, and as we allow the Spirit to work through us it becomes His fruit.

Not by our following rules but following His Holy Spirit's direction.

Great! I understand. What standard does the Holy Spirit use?[/quote:26unk0l5][/quote:26unk0l5]

You ask what standard the Holy Spirit uses as if you hope to trip me up. :biglaugh

The standard of God is always love. It's neither complicated nor mysterious.

 

[glorydaz]

Ever wonder where RND goes to make all his animal sacrifices?

His knees.

Better not work on your Sabbath RND or you'll have to be put to death. YIKES!

I've already transgressed the law of God so unfortunately I will lose this life. But that's OK because I was promised eternal life by that Jewish carpenter.

Oh, and BTW, I don't work on the Sabbath. I go into prisons on the sabbath. Two of 'em.

Then you aren't keeping the Sabbath law, I'm glad you admit it.
You travel on the Sabbath...that's breaking the Sabbath Law.

I'm certainly not condemning you for setting aside any day you want to do good.
We're not to esteem one day above another, because we are no longer under the law.

We're now free to worship Him in Spirit and in truth as we each see fit.
Just be careful not to suggest that anyone else should do as you do because we're supposed to.

 

[RND]

How could He have made the sabbath commandment more difficult to follow by eliminating it?

Because it's always easier for man to claim he is justified by his keeping of the law than it is to obey the leading of the Holy Spirit. Instead of setting aside one day to perform our oblations to God, we are to worship Him every minute of every day.

What if a man believes he is drawn to keep it by the Holy Spirit? Oh, and BTW, the sabbath has less to do with worship than obedience.

Because the law is bondage.

So back to Joseph. Was Joseph in bondage because He obeyed God or was Joseph in bondage because of those that refused to obey God?

Let's say a man determines he is to set aside one day to keep the Sabbath law, and the Lord wants him to do something else that day.

Then he should be prepare to heed the Lord's calling.

That man then binds himself to the law instead of freeing himself from that bondage to follow the leading of the Spirit.

Ah, the story of the Good Samaritan. We have all been called to do good on the sabbath day.

The standard is love...

Even the publicans love each other.

the royal law, and as we allow the Spirit to work through us it becomes His fruit.

The royal law includes loving God. How do we love God by disobeying His Ten Commandments?

You ask what standard the Holy Spirit uses as if you hope to trip me up. :biglaugh

No I've asked this several times and have yet to get a reasoned response.

The standard of God is always love. It's neither complicated nor mysterious.

Again, how is love manifested by disobeying the law of God?

 

[elijah23]

Yes, I believe we should obey the Ten Commandments. The Lord told the Israelites to obey them—what’s changed?

 

[RND]

Ever wonder where RND goes to make all his animal sacrifices?

His knees.

Better not work on your Sabbath RND or you'll have to be put to death. YIKES!

I've already transgressed the law of God so unfortunately I will lose this life. But that's OK because I was promised eternal life by that Jewish carpenter.

Oh, and BTW, I don't work on the Sabbath. I go into prisons on the sabbath. Two of 'em.

Then you aren't keeping the Sabbath law, I'm glad you admit it.

I observe the sabbath every Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunset.

You travel on the Sabbath...that's breaking the Sabbath Law.

You sound like a Pharisee, the "do as I say, not as I do" crowd! You presume to tell another man's servant how to do his master's will but you don't know that servants' master's will! Incredible hubris!

There is nothing in the Torah that prevents travel on the sabbath.

I'm certainly not condemning you for setting aside any day you want to do good.

Well that's good because if you did condemn me you would be placing yourself in God's shoes. That's a violation of the 3rd commandment and something I'm certain the HS would not allow you to do.

We're not to esteem one day above another, because we are no longer under the law.

Is the word "sabbath" found anywhere in Romans 14?

We're now free to worship Him in Spirit and in truth as we each see fit.

Everyday and every minute of the day. Does this include disobeying His law?

Just be careful not to suggest that anyone else should do as you do because we're supposed to.

I would never presume to tell another man's servant how he thinks his master has told him to do his job.

 

[RND]

You did say you didn't know you couldn't travel on the Sabbath. Your own words convict you of breaking the Sabbath law.

There is no provision that a man can't travel on the sabbath anywhere in the Torah.

God looks at our hearts, remember?

Exactly. He's looking for those who would obey Him.

Ah, read the verse again. Abraham "believed" and it was counted for righteousness.

Right Abraham "believed" God. What did he believe? Was it the word that God spoke to him?

Oops, we can go no further with this post because you are, once again, making false accusations based on what I've said.

Just asking questions. Is your idea of liberty to do what you want apart from God's commandments?

If you keep doing that, this converstion will not go very far.

You make statements that require clarification and understanding. You tell me all ten are still in the enhanced new covenant so I would assume you mean the sabbath is in the new covenant.

 

[glorydaz]

But really isn't saying we aren't under the law suggesting one doesn't have to obey the word of God? No, because the law does nothing but reveal sin. The law reveals sin to the unrighteous, but the Spirit reveals sin to the just.

Our "work" is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. When we believe we are justified unto God.

So once we believe in Jesus we have nothing to do? No shut-ins to help? No hungry to feed? No sick to visit? No prisoners to assist?
When we go about doing works to secure our salvation, they are works that will be burned up in the last day. When we walk in the Spirit, and allow God to work through us, they then become His fruits...not our own. Those are a result of our work of faith...which is believing in Jesus Christ.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

[quote:236gn4ih]Our "works" justify us before men. By faith are we saved through grace.

So if we say we believe but have no woks are we really believers? If we see no fruit ...by their fruits you will know them, then they may not be. Jesus is the only one who knows that. Maybe the man's "work" is prayer alone...others may not see the results, but that certainly doesn't mean the results aren't there.

By our fruit man can see our faith..

Which is our works. No, they aren't "our works". Our works will be burned up....only those which come from our following the Spirit's direction will remain, and they are not ours...they are His.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

whether it be true faith or false faith.

Exactly. We can say we believe all day long but without works our faith is in vain.

Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?[/quote:236gn4ih]

I praise the Lord we won't be judged by the works man sees, but by our work of faith in believing on our Savior....the results of which is the fruit of the Spirit within us. All glory is the Lord's...as it should be.

This is why Jesus is our rest...we no longer have to strive, in our own efforts, to perform to do good works. We simply obey His leading and allow Him to perform His work through us.