Should Christians Keep the Ten Commandments Today???

[RND]

It was given to the children of Israel...if anyone thinks we should be keeping it today, they might want to consider the penalty for breaking it.

If the COI were replaced by those who choose to honor and worship God would they not be considered children of God?

Is the man that keeps the sabbath no longer blessed?

Isa 56:2 Blessed [is] the man [that] doeth this, and the son of man [that] layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Is the following prediction made by Isaiah no longer valid?

Isa 56:6 ¶ Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

 

[RND]

I think maybe you're toying with me.

Not at all. Just asking questions.

You said, "The ten are still in there, but they've been expanded." So when I ask if they're still in there they haven't gone anywhere you tell me I'm wrong. So are they still in there or have they gone away?

If I gave my kid a curfew of 9:00, and then later changed it to 11:00, is it still in there?
Does it matter one iota if it is? No, it doesn't, because the curfew is now 11:00.

The curfew didn't change, just the aspects of the curfew changed. So I guess you're saying that the ten commandments are still part of the new covenant.

 

[vja4Him]

A lot of people miss the big picture.

The 10 commandments should act as a mirror on us and convict us of our sins. They reveal God's nature and his standard of moral living.

We are not saved or made right in the eyes of God by keeping the 10 commandments. As obedient children of God, we should want to keep them as a child wants to obey a parent. Because we love Him, we will do it.

That is the key ... We who belong to Christ should want to please God. And our conscience will convict us when we do something wrong.

Those who belong to Christ, have His Spirit in them, guiding, leading, and revealing the truth of the Bible, including right and wrong. We know that we should follow the Ten Commandments, but when we stumble, and sin, we know that Jesus is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.

We don't go out and stone people anymore for breaking the commandments. We go to the Lord for forgiveness:

1 John 1:8-10

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

 

[RND]

Better yet...you point me to a scripture that ever said one word about the Sabbath before it was given to the children of Israel.

I asked first! See Genesis 2.

You won't find it because it isn't there.

Was Adam a man?

Why would anyone feel the need to point out something that was never there? God resting on the seventh day is not the Sabbath law...it is pointing to the Sabbath rest we have in Christ. I'll give this next verse in three different translations so you can get the true meaning...some just skim over this verse, and it's very important. This is one of the few the KJV gets wrong...the say Jesus instead of Joshua.

for if Joshua had given them rest, He would not concerning another day have spoken after these things; there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God, for he who did enter into his rest, he also rested from his works, as God from His own. YLT

For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. NIV

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. KJV

Referring to this...

4And now the LORD your God hath given rest unto your brethren, as he promised them: therefore now return ye, and get you unto your tents, and unto the land of your possession, which Moses the servant of the LORD gave you on the other side Jordan.

Questions: Why didn't Israel enter into the promise land? Do you understand that there are two specific types of "rest" listed here?

What's to explain concerning the strangers?

Why were strangers then required to obey the sabbath?

It has nothing to do with the Sabbath law itself.

What does it have to do with?

 

[glorydaz]

Moses brought down the second set of stones and placed them inside the Ark of the Covenant, signifying the Second or New Testament or Covenant.

Question: Since that's true and the second set also included the 4th commandment, just as the first did, then can we not conclude that the 4th commandment is also part of the "New Testament or Covenant"? Just askin'.

It's in there as the Sabbath rest we have in Jesus.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Here, Jesus is accused of breaking the Sabbath by the pharisees. He was...but He is the Sabbath.
You notice He was under the law until He was resurrected, but He did not follow the Sabbath Law...He became the Sabbath Law.

But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Here's Paul breaking the Sabbath...he understood that Jesus is the Sabbath in whom we have our rest.
No one was allowed to travel on the Sabbath.

And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

 

[glorydaz]

Better yet...you point me to a scripture that ever said one word about the Sabbath before it was given to the children of Israel.

I asked first! See Genesis 2.

You won't find it because it isn't there.

Was Adam a man?
[quote:1ss9jv2w]
Why would anyone feel the need to point out something that was never there? God resting on the seventh day is not the Sabbath law...it is pointing to the Sabbath rest we have in Christ. I'll give this next verse in three different translations so you can get the true meaning...some just skim over this verse, and it's very important. This is one of the few the KJV gets wrong...the say Jesus instead of Joshua.

for if Joshua had given them rest, He would not concerning another day have spoken after these things; there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God, for he who did enter into his rest, he also rested from his works, as God from His own. YLT

For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. NIV

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. KJV

Referring to this...

4And now the LORD your God hath given rest unto your brethren, as he promised them: therefore now return ye, and get you unto your tents, and unto the land of your possession, which Moses the servant of the LORD gave you on the other side Jordan.

Questions: Why didn't Israel enter into the promise land? Do you understand that there are two specific types of "rest" listed here?

[quote:1ss9jv2w]What's to explain concerning the strangers?

Why were strangers then required to obey the sabbath?

It has nothing to do with the Sabbath law itself.

[/quote:1ss9jv2w] What does it have to do with?[/quote:1ss9jv2w]

The Sabbath was given for man...get it?
Jesus is the Sabbath in which we find our rest.
Jesus was sent so we could enter into His rest.

 

[RND]

It's in there as the Sabbath rest we have in Jesus.

The fourth commandment is fairly specific. Where do I find that Jesus is now the "sabbath rest?"

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

That's not a sabbath rest. anapano = from ana - ana 303 and pauw - pauo 3973; (reflexively) to repose (literally or figuratively (be exempt), remain); by implication, to refresh:--take ease, refresh, (give, take) rest.

Here, Jesus is accused of breaking the Sabbath by the pharisees. He was...but He is the Sabbath.
You notice He was under the law until He was resurrected, but He did not follow the Sabbath Law...He became the Sabbath Law.

If Jesus didn't follow the sabbath law He would have been a sinner! Now, do you know who's sabbath law Jesus was accused of breaking? Man's or God's? Talmud or Towrah?

But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Here's Paul breaking the Sabbath...he understood that Jesus is the Sabbath in whom we have our rest.
No one was allowed to travel on the Sabbath.[/quote] No one was allowed to travel on the sabbath? I never heard of that. Can you show me in the Towrah where no one was allowed to travel on the sabbath? I have never been able to find that in the Towrah. Maybe in the Talmud but certainly not the Towrah.

And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

This seems to indicate they were still keeping the sabbath after the death of Jesus.

 

[RND]

The Sabbath was given for man...get it?

The sabbath was given "to" man, not for him. Adam was a man, it was given to him.

Jesus is the Sabbath in which we find our rest.

Where does it say this?

Jesus was sent so we could enter into His rest.

I thought Jesus came to expiate our sin and to die in our place not so we could violate His law.

Question: What day did Jesus spend all day in the tomb?

 

[glorydaz]

And I answered them...what, you don't like my answers?

Well, let's just say I'm not in agreement with them. LOL I don't think you understand them enough to agree or not. I can tell by your questions.

However, I'll answer...no, a person doesn't go in and out of being saved.

So then a person can accept Jesus and continue a life of sin? All men sin....sin doesn't cease when we get saved, it just gets covered by the blood. The advantage we have is Jesus is with us to lead us into righteousness.
[quote:25cahltx]
Do you know what being born again a new creature is all about?

I do! A sinner becomes a non-sinner through obedience (Romans 4). No, that's not it.

Yes, the Law of faith omits the stone law.

How? You said in an earlier post that the ten commandments are still part of the new covenant so you'll have to excuse my confusion. How can the ten commandments be part of the new covenant, yet have been abolished?
All the law was fulfilled by Christ. He gave us new commandments...not a stone law on a stone heart, but laws written on our heart of flesh. 9:00 vs. 11:00, remember?

It was fulfilled, waxed old, and a new law of faith is the order of the day.

So in other words faith does not include being obedient to the word of God? Now that's a weird conclusion to draw. A simple NO will have to suffice.

Christ had to die...the law had nothing to do with whether he had to die or not.

Christ died in your place and mind so I would suspect the law had a tremendous amount to do with His death. In fact Jesus "became" sin. The law did nothing more than reveal sin. So, no, it was sin that caused Jesus to come and die.
Were the Ten Commandments nailed to the cross? Is the very sin that started with Adam and Eve and nailed our loving Saviour to the cross something God no longer cares about? Did Jesus die so we could continue living in lawlessness? Is this what the Bible really says about the Ten Commandments, or are these just lies from our adversary who is determined to keep and steal everyone he can from God's kingdom, especially as we draw closer to this Earths final days?[/quote:25cahltx]
Jesus died so we could have access to God. He reconciled men to God...mankind was always under the bondage of sin, and now can freely enter into the Holy of Holies if we accept the free gift of God.

 

[glorydaz]

It was given to the children of Israel...if anyone thinks we should be keeping it today, they might want to consider the penalty for breaking it.

If the COI were replaced by those who choose to honor and worship God would they not be considered children of God?

I guess if you want to keep it...but you know that if you fail in one point you face the penalty.

Requirements
4. Sabbath is for rest and Sacred Assembly.

No work is to be done on the Sabbath. The words used in the Bible which are translated into English as "work" are the Hebrew words kol–m'law·khaw meaning "all and any kind of creative 'generative' endeavor, changes to the environment or any object."

Lev. 23:3
There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to HaShem.

Exodus 34:21
Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.

5. Preparation and cooking of food prohibited.

These are prime examples of work which is "generative" - i.e., changing something's character. Boiling includes not only bringing a liquid to a boil with food in it, but changing food by pouring boiling water over it. It is also considered cooking to boil the water itself. Baking means not just warming something to make it better to eat, but includes bringing something to a high temperature - high enough to change it. This includes toasting bread, even in an already heated oven or surface.

Ex 16:21-30
Each morning everyone gathered as much [manna] as he needed, and when the sun grew hot, it melted away. On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much-- two omers for each person-- and the leaders of the community came and reported this to Moses. He said to them, "This is what HaShem commanded: `Tomorrow is to be a day of rest, a holy Sabbath to HaShem. So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.'" So they saved it until morning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it. "Eat it today," Moses said, "because today is a Sabbath to HaShem. You will not find any of it on the ground today. Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any." Nevertheless, some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none. Then HaShem said to Moshe, "How long will you refuse to keep my commands and my instructions? Bear in mind that HaShem has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where he is on the seventh day; no one is to go out." So the people rested on the seventh day.

6. Carrying anything out of a "domain" is prohibited.

"Domain" means your home/property, building/campus, etc. A walled city is considered a single domain. It should be noted that many Jewish communities have established an "eruv," which is a fence which legally establishes the community as a single domain.

Jer. 17: 21
This is what HaShem says: Be careful not to carry a load on the Sabbath day or bring it through the gates of Jerusalem. Do not bring a load out of your houses or do any work on the Sabbath, but keep the Sabbath day holy, as I commanded your forefathers.

7. Do Not Make (or allow) Others Work.

Besides your not being allowed to work, you are prohibited from doing anything that will make the following people work. You are not to allow any of these to work:

Your children
Any employee or person who would serve you (this includes any stranger who would serve you).
Any animal you own.
Any non-Jewish person in your home.
Ex 20:8-10
Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to HaShem your G-d. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.

Exodus 23:12
Six days do your work, but on the seventh day do not work, so that your ox and your donkey may rest and the slave born in your household, and the alien as well, may be refreshed.

Deut 5:12
Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as HaShem your G-d has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to HaShem your G-d. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that HaShem your G-d brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. ThereforeHaShem your G-d has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

8. Lighting a fire on the Sabbath is not permitted.

This is understood to mean doing anything on Sabbath which directly or indirectly lights a fire, such as striking a match, lighting a gas stove, adding wood to a fire, changing a thermostat so as to start a gas or oil furnace, etc. Using (turning on and off) electricity or anything electronic is included in this rule.

Exodus 35:3
Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.

Penalty

9. Penalty for desecrating the Sabbath is death.

It is not totally clear what the modern response should be to requirements of the death penalty for desecrating the Sabbath. Since the Theocracy of Yisrael does not currently exist, the death penalty for desecrating the Sabbath is not possible. However, throughout history the importance of the Sabbath for keeping the Jewish people alive is evident. It is clear that the person can and should be considered as having strayed from the Jewish community. This parallels "must be cut off from his people" as in verse 14.

Exodus 31:13-15
Say to the Israelites, "You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am HaShem, who makes you holy. Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to HaShem. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death."

Num. 15:32-36
While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. Then HaShem said to Moshe, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as HaShem commanded Moshe.

 

[DarcyLu]

The Sabbath was given for man...get it?
Jesus is the Sabbath in which we find our rest.
Jesus was sent so we could enter into His rest.

Yes, Jesus is our Sabbath, read Hebrews 4, it tells us not to be like the Israelities who were not able to enter their "rest" - promised land- because of their unbelief, it exhorts us not to be like them in their unbelief so we can enter into our Sabbath rest which is Jesus.
Likewise, the Sabbath was a foreshadow of Jesus.

The Sabbath Day was never given to us who are under the New Covenant.

 

[RND]

LOL I don't think you understand them enough to agree or not. I can tell by your questions.

I think I understand more than you know. I ask questions to get answers and many of your answers seem contradictory. Now please, I think we have had an enjoyable exchange up until now. Please don't belittle and make assumptions about not understanding, etc.

All men sin....sin doesn't cease when we get saved, it just gets covered by the blood. The advantage we have is Jesus is with us to lead us into righteousness.

So in other words we don't really become new men?

No, that's not it.

So we don't have to obey?

All the law was fulfilled by Christ.

Fulfilled = filled full, not abolished.

He gave us new commandments...not a stone law on a stone heart, but laws written on our heart of flesh. 9:00 vs. 11:00, remember?

Yes, I remember. So he relaxed the curfew or did away with it all together? If He came to write the law on our hearts did He only write 9 or 10?

Now that's a weird conclusion to draw. A simple NO will have to suffice.

OK, so we still have to obey the word of God right?

Jesus said "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Now did God nor speak His ten commandments first before writing them down?

Christ had to die...the law had nothing to do with whether he had to die or not.

Well the Bible says that sin id the transgression of the law and that the wages of sin is death so I would say the law had quite a bit to do with the death of Christ.

The law did nothing more than reveal sin. So, no, it was sin that caused Jesus to come and die.

But Christ was sinless so the law couldn't have pointed out His sin.

Jesus died so we could have access to God.

That's right. Jesus didn't die so we could continue in sin.

He reconciled men to God...

Actually God reconciled man back to himself through the death of Christ. Man can be reconciled back to God through the blood of Christ.

mankind was always under the bondage of sin, and now can freely enter into the Holy of Holies if we accept the free gift of God.

Can a man enter into the Holy of Holies with sin?

 

[glorydaz]

If Jesus didn't follow the sabbath law He would have been a sinner! Now, do you know who's sabbath law Jesus was accused of breaking? Man's or God's? Talmud or Towrah?

There was only one Sabbath Law. He didn't sin..he didn't break it, He became it.
The Pharisees knew exactly what Jesus was doing....they were convinced He'd broken it.
They simply didn't understand. Lots of people still don't.

He fulfilled it at His birth...He kept the rest of the law until He was crucified and resurrected. When the Holy Spirit came, the New Covenant took effect.

And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

This seems to indicate they were still keeping the sabbath after the death of Jesus.

Lots of Jews continued out of tradition. Look how hard it was for them to give up circumcision.
Traveling was not allowed on the Sabbath....I posted it...see for yourself.

For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Jesus blotted out the law which was contrary to us..taking it out of the way, nailing it to the cross.
Therefore no one is to judge us concerning any holy day...even the Sabbath.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

 

[glorydaz]

The Sabbath was given for man...get it?
Jesus is the Sabbath in which we find our rest.
Jesus was sent so we could enter into His rest.

Yes, Jesus is our Sabbath, read Hebrews 4, it tells us not to be like the Israelities who were not able to enter their "rest" - promised land- because of their unbelief, it exhorts us not to be like them in their unbelief so we can enter into our Sabbath rest which is Jesus.
Likewise, the Sabbath was a foreshadow of Jesus.

The Sabbath Day was never given to us who are under the New Covenant.

 

[RND]

I guess if you want to keep it...but you know that if you fail in one point you face the penalty.

Goes for anyone right?

Requirements
4. Sabbath is for rest and Sacred Assembly.

Still is.

No work is to be done on the Sabbath. The words used in the Bible which are translated into English as "work" are the Hebrew words kol–m'law·khaw meaning "all and any kind of creative 'generative' endeavor, changes to the environment or any object."

Lev. 23:3
There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to HaShem.

Exodus 34:21
Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.

That's right. Physical labor was prohibited on the sabbath.

5. Preparation and cooking of food prohibited.

These are prime examples of work which is "generative" - i.e., changing something's character. Boiling includes not only bringing a liquid to a boil with food in it, but changing food by pouring boiling water over it. It is also considered cooking to boil the water itself. Baking means not just warming something to make it better to eat, but includes bringing something to a high temperature - high enough to change it. This includes toasting bread, even in an already heated oven or surface.

Ex 16:21-30
Each morning everyone gathered as much [manna] as he needed, and when the sun grew hot, it melted away. On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much-- two omers for each person-- and the leaders of the community came and reported this to Moses. He said to them, "This is what HaShem commanded: `Tomorrow is to be a day of rest, a holy Sabbath to HaShem. So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.'" So they saved it until morning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it. "Eat it today," Moses said, "because today is a Sabbath to HaShem. You will not find any of it on the ground today. Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any." Nevertheless, some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none. Then HaShem said to Moshe, "How long will you refuse to keep my commands and my instructions? Bear in mind that HaShem has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where he is on the seventh day; no one is to go out." So the people rested on the seventh day.

When the COI weren't in the wilderness to such prohibition against cooking or lighting fires existed. There are examples of cooking and starting fires on the sabbath.

6. Carrying anything out of a "domain" is prohibited.

"Domain" means your home/property, building/campus, etc. A walled city is considered a single domain. It should be noted that many Jewish communities have established an "eruv," which is a fence which legally establishes the community as a single domain.

Jer. 17: 21
This is what HaShem says: Be careful not to carry a load on the Sabbath day or bring it through the gates of Jerusalem. Do not bring a load out of your houses or do any work on the Sabbath, but keep the Sabbath day holy, as I commanded your forefathers.

This is a provision that still stands to this day.

Jer 17:27 But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.

7. Do Not Make (or allow) Others Work.

Besides your not being allowed to work, you are prohibited from doing anything that will make the following people work. You are not to allow any of these to work:

Your children
Any employee or person who would serve you (this includes any stranger who would serve you).
Any animal you own.
Any non-Jewish person in your home.
Ex 20:8-10
Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to HaShem your G-d. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.

Exodus 23:12
Six days do your work, but on the seventh day do not work, so that your ox and your donkey may rest and the slave born in your household, and the alien as well, may be refreshed.

Deut 5:12
Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as HaShem your G-d has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to HaShem your G-d. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that HaShem your G-d brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. ThereforeHaShem your G-d has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

I think it's interesting glorydaz how you used information from a Jewish site that has rejected the Messsiah to make your point.

Necessary work and healing work is always to be done on the sabbath.

8. Lighting a fire on the Sabbath is not permitted.

This is understood to mean doing anything on Sabbath which directly or indirectly lights a fire, such as striking a match, lighting a gas stove, adding wood to a fire, changing a thermostat so as to start a gas or oil furnace, etc. Using (turning on and off) electricity or anything electronic is included in this rule.

Exodus 35:3
Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.

This was a provision in the wilderness, not a provision in Canaan. This provision isn't in the second reading of the law.

Penalty

9. Penalty for desecrating the Sabbath is death.

It is not totally clear what the modern response should be to requirements of the death penalty for desecrating the Sabbath. Since the Theocracy of Yisrael does not currently exist, the death penalty for desecrating the Sabbath is not possible. However, throughout history the importance of the Sabbath for keeping the Jewish people alive is evident. It is clear that the person can and should be considered as having strayed from the Jewish community. This parallels "must be cut off from his people" as in verse 14.

All sin against the word of God eventually leads to death!

Exodus 31:13-15
Say to the Israelites, "You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am HaShem, who makes you holy. Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to HaShem. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death."

Still the case today.

Num. 15:32-36
While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. Then HaShem said to Moshe, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as HaShem commanded Moshe.

This man was guilty of the sin of presumption. He was given instruction and decided to "test" and challnge God.

Num 15:30 ¶ But the soul that doeth [ought] presumptuously, [whether he be] born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity [shall be] upon him.

Still do this day the sin of presumption is looked at very harshly by God.

2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous [are they], selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

 

[glorydaz]

LOL I don't think you understand them enough to agree or not. I can tell by your questions.

I think I understand more than you know. I ask questions to get answers and many of your answers seem contradictory. Now please, I think we have had an enjoyable exchange up until now. Please don't belittle and make assumptions about not understanding, etc.

All men sin....sin doesn't cease when we get saved, it just gets covered by the blood. The advantage we have is Jesus is with us to lead us into righteousness.

So in other words we don't really become new men?

[quote:24ks23gr]No, that's not it.

So we don't have to obey?

All the law was fulfilled by Christ.

Fulfilled = filled full, not abolished.

He gave us new commandments...not a stone law on a stone heart, but laws written on our heart of flesh. 9:00 vs. 11:00, remember?

Yes, I remember. So he relaxed the curfew or did away with it all together? If He came to write the law on our hearts did He only write 9 or 10?

Now that's a weird conclusion to draw. A simple NO will have to suffice.

OK, so we still have to obey the word of God right?

Jesus said "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Now did God nor speak His ten commandments first before writing them down?

Christ had to die...the law had nothing to do with whether he had to die or not.

Well the Bible says that sin id the transgression of the law and that the wages of sin is death so I would say the law had quite a bit to do with the death of Christ.

The law did nothing more than reveal sin. So, no, it was sin that caused Jesus to come and die.

But Christ was sinless so the law couldn't have pointed out His sin.

Jesus died so we could have access to God.

That's right. Jesus didn't die so we could continue in sin.

He reconciled men to God...

Actually God reconciled man back to himself through the death of Christ. Man can be reconciled back to God through the blood of Christ.

mankind was always under the bondage of sin, and now can freely enter into the Holy of Holies if we accept the free gift of God.

Can a man enter into the Holy of Holies with sin?[/quote:24ks23gr]
Please don't get defensive. You must admit from the questions you put to me that you didn't sound like you understood anything I've been saying. You say again..my answers seem contradictory. I submit it's because you aren't understanding what I've said. My answers aren't contradictory at all. I understand quite well...I may not be adept at getting my point across. Your questions come rapid fire, and I can barely keep up at it is.

We do indeed become new men. We're now eternal. I call that new.
We're also filled the Holy Spirit to guide us. We didn't have that before.
We don't earn our salvation by obeying, but of course we obey...if we don't we're chastened until we return to obedience.
Fulfilled means accomplished. Done. Now on to the next Covenant.
Nine or ten? Try over 180...
We obey Christ's commandments, yes.
They can be summed up in two...Love God and love your neighbor. The Royal Law of Love.
The stone law was given to reveal sin. The eternal law of God, which was with us from the beginning, still just pointed out man's sin. So, no...Christ came to defeat the power of sin. The law was just a revealer of that sin.
Of course Christ was sinless.
I think you're nit-picking a bit about reconciliation.
Christ by His death on the cross (shedding of blood)...He tore the curtain that separated men from God...reconciliation. The perfect sacrifice for sinful man. Now we have access...some don't go in.

We enter into the Holy of Holies by our new birth.

 

[RND]

There was only one Sabbath Law. He didn't sin..he didn't break it, He became it.

I believe He honored and kept it.

The Pharisees knew exactly what Jesus was doing....they were convinced He'd broken it.
They simply didn't understand. Lots of people still don't.

They accused Jesus of breaking the provisions of the Talmud.

He fulfilled it at His birth...He kept the rest of the law until He was crucified and resurrected. When the Holy Spirit came, the New Covenant took effect.

I don't see any scriptures that say Jesus fulfilled the law at His birth.

Lots of Jews continued out of tradition. Look how hard it was for them to give up circumcision.

I don't think the Jews gave up circumcision.

Traveling was not allowed on the Sabbath....I posted it...see for yourself.

I saw it and traveling wasn't prohibited on the sabbath.

Act 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Jesus blotted out the law which was contrary to us..taking it out of the way, nailing it to the cross.
Therefore no one is to judge us concerning any holy day...even the Sabbath.

The Mosaic law, not the ten commandments.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Were the Ten Commandments "hand written"?

 

[glorydaz]

I think it's interesting glorydaz how you used information from a Jewish site that has rejected the Messsiah to make your point.

I'm glad you find it interesting...I went to the first site I could find that listed out the law on the Sabbath. My point was to show you how silly it is to attempt to keep a law that was meant for the Jews while they were under the law. I have no interest in studying the law because I'm under the law of faith and grace. I'm not interested in taking on a burden no one can ever carry. If you want to, feel free.
I know some people do...many Jews still try to follow the stone law, but they'll never find any rest in it.

 

[RND]

Please don't get defensive.

I'm not, I just think suggesting people don't understand when they do is unnecessary.

You must admit from the questions you put to me that you didn't sound like you understood anything I've been saying.

I've understood everything you've said and my questions were put forward to get answers that's all.

You say again..my answers seem contradictory.

That's right, the do. You have suggested several times that the law has been abolished. You have suggested that we're held to a higher standard but that the ten commandments are "still there." Seems all very odd to me.

I submit it's because you aren't understanding what I've said.

Sumit as you'd like. I understand everything you've said. I have seen these same arguments consistently.

My answers aren't contradictory at all. I understand quite well...I may not be adept at getting my point across. Your questions come rapid fire, and I can barely keep up at it is.

Sorry about that. You give answers that lead to asking a lot of questions.

We do indeed become new men. We're now eternal. I call that new.

So is a man that believes in Jesus an eternal man while he is committing sin?

We're also filled the Holy Spirit to guide us. We didn't have that before.

David had the Holy Spirit. What standard does the Holy Spirit use?

We don't earn our salvation by obeying, but of course we obey...if we don't we're chastened until we return to obedience.

If there is no law then there's nothing to obey right?

Fulfilled means accomplished. Done. Now on to the next Covenant.

No, fulfilled does not mean that at all. The Greek word is pleroo = from plhrhV - pleres 4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:--accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

Nine or ten? Try over 180...

Or two.

We obey Christ's commandments, yes.

Exactly.

They can be summed up in two...Love God and love your neighbor. The Royal Law of Love.

Old covenant. Lev 19"18, Deu 6:4-6

The stone law was given to reveal sin.

Still does.

The eternal law of God, which was with us from the beginning, still just pointed out man's sin. So, no...Christ came to defeat the power of sin. The law was just a revealer of that sin.

Still is.

Of course Christ was sinless.

So He never broke the law.

I think you're nit-picking a bit about reconciliation.

No, because some men aren't looking to reconcile with God.

Christ by His death on the cross (shedding of blood)...He tore the curtain that separated men from God...reconciliation. The perfect sacrifice for sinful man. Now we have access...some don't go in.

Some don't go in meaning some aren't or don't want reconciliation.

We enter into the Holy of Holies by our new birth.

Can someone that has accepted Christ and yet continues in sin enter there?

 

[RND]

I'm glad you find it interesting...

It would be the equivalent of going to a Muslim site to learn about being a Christian.

I went to the first site I could find that listed out the law on the Sabbath.

But this isn't the law of the sabbath, it's man's interpretation.

My point was to show you how silly it is to attempt to keep a law that was meant for the Jews while they were under the law.

So you think it was silly for the Israelites to obey the word of God? Didn't God have there best interests at heart?

I have no interest in studying the law because I'm under the law of faith and grace.

As was Abraham. Tell me, can you name one person ever saved by keeping the law?

I'm not interested in taking on a burden no one can ever carry. If you want to, feel free.

So you have no desire to obey God? God's laws are seen as a burden to you? Jesus promises His yoke is light. So someone that wants to honor God by taking His word seriously is picking up an unnecessary burden?

I know some people do...many Jews still try to follow the stone law, but they'll never find any rest in it.

So you mean someone that decides to honor God and not commit adultery on His wife won't find rest? If a man is tempted to steal and doesn't is he not going to find rest? Strange values people have these days.