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Should Christians Keep the Ten Commandments Today???

RND said:
glorydaz said:
I'm glad you find it interesting...
It would be the equivalent of going to a Muslim site to learn about being a Christian.

I went to the first site I could find that listed out the law on the Sabbath.
But this isn't the law of the sabbath, it's man's interpretation.

[quote:2bjzuz4p]My point was to show you how silly it is to attempt to keep a law that was meant for the Jews while they were under the law.
So you think it was silly for the Israelites to obey the word of God? Didn't God have there best interests at heart?
I have no interest in studying the law because I'm under the law of faith and grace.
As was Abraham. Tell me, can you name one person ever saved by keeping the law?

I'm not interested in taking on a burden no one can ever carry. If you want to, feel free.
So you have no desire to obey God? God's laws are seen as a burden to you? Jesus promises His yoke is light. So someone that wants to honor God by taking His word seriously is picking up an unnecessary burden?

I know some people do...many Jews still try to follow the stone law, but they'll never find any rest in it.
So you mean someone that decides to honor God and not commit adultery on His wife won't find rest? If a man is tempted to steal and doesn't is he not going to find rest? Strange values people have these days.[/quote:2bjzuz4p]
Stop twisting my words...it's very unbecoming.
 
glorydaz said:
I know some people do...many Jews still try to follow the stone law, but they'll never find any rest in it.
RND said:
So you mean someone that decides to honor God and not commit adultery on His wife won't find rest? If a man is tempted to steal and doesn't is he not going to find rest? Strange values people have these days.
glorydaz said:
Stop twisting my words...it's very unbecoming.
I'm not twisting your words at all glorydaz. You said that someone that tries to follow the "stone law" (whatever that's suppose to mean) will never find any rest in it. You did say that right?

So, I'm just asking. If a man decides not to bow to graven images like so many denominations like to do are you saying he won't find any rest? If a man decides not to covet his neighbors possesions he won't find rest?

This is why I ask questions.
 
glorydaz, if a man were to live his enter life and never once hear of Jesus but managed to keep the basic requirements of the law would that man be lost to you think?
 
RND said:
This is why I ask questions.

I have spent a lot of time, in good faith, answering all your questions.
I see, now, you have an agenda, and I don't appreciate what it is.

No one will find rest unless they are born again.
It's quite simple really, and it sure doesn't take a bunch of off-the-wall questions to get to the heart of the matter. Your comment concerning the stone law shows me you're only interested in bolstering your own ego. If I have to explain the simplest things in order to give you a glow, then I'm not going to play in your sandbox.
 
RND said:
glorydaz, if a man were to live his enter life and never once hear of Jesus but managed to keep the basic requirements of the law would that man be lost to you think?

What do you think, RND?
You've exercised my patience enough for one night.
 
Question(s): Who has the bigger burden to bear regarding the law that prohibits theft? The thief or the person that doesn't steal? Who has the bigger burden to bear regarding the law that prohibits adultery? The one who likes to sleep around or the person that doesn't?

I submit the law is only a burden for those who insist on breaking it. For example, I'm a sabbath keeper and I see no burden to observe the sabbath at all. To me the sabbath is an absolutely wonderful day.
 
glorydaz said:
RND said:
This is why I ask questions.

I have spent a lot of time, in good faith, answering all your questions.
Yes you have.
I see, now, you have an agenda, and I don't appreciate what it is.
No agenda, just asking questions.

No one will find rest unless they are born again.
No one? What about those that keep the spirit of the law but have never heard of Jesus? Are they lost?

It's quite simple really, and it sure doesn't take a bunch of off-the-wall questions to get to the heart of the matter. Your comment concerning the stone law shows me you're only interested in bolstering your own ego. If I have to explain the simplest things in order to give you a glow, then I'm not going to play in your sandbox.
Oh, glorydaz, I understand what you think you mean when you use terms like "stone law" but in all reality God's Kingdom won't be filled with the lawless (without the law) but filled with those that have proven able to obey the word of God.
 
glorydaz said:
RND said:
glorydaz, if a man were to live his enter life and never once hear of Jesus but managed to keep the basic requirements of the law would that man be lost to you think?

What do you think, RND?
I think that God knows who is safe to grant eternal life to and who isn't safe to grant eternal life to. And since sin won't raise it's ugly head again there will be a bunch of level 6 thinkers in heaven.
You've exercised my patience enough for one night.
Sorry you feel that way. I thought we were having a fairly decent exchange. Guess it depends on perception.
 
I know some people do...many Jews still try to follow the stone law, but they'll never find any rest in it.

Imagine Joseph.

What a terrible burden it must have been for him to turn down the advances of Potiphar's wife. No doubt he temporarily would have experienced much more liberty and freedom had he relented and caved in to her lust for him and abandoned the word of the Lord. But at what price would that liberty and freedom have cost?

Instead the man stood firm and was determined not to sin against his Heavenly Father. And look what his integrity cost him. It cost his freedom for he was imprisoned for not violating the law of God! He lost all freedom because he stood firm amidst the false accusations of another man's wife. And yet, even though Potiphar's wife meant to do harm to Joseph, because he spurned her advances and accepted the burden of remaining true to the law of the Lord our Heavenly Father turned the tables and was able to bless Joseph in a mighty way. The burden he accepted because of his fidelity was rewarded with riches, power and freedom unmatched!

It is true that initially Joseph chose to obey the commandments of the Lord. Because he did he had no rest. The burden was great. Falsely accused and imprisoned for remaining faithful to the Lord he temporarily lost his freedom and was burdened with time in a jail cell.

Yet eventually Joseph did find rest and comfort in obeying the precepts of God over the precept of man. And the lesson for us is this. Obeying the commandments of God may at times might not be the most convenient or expedient thing to do. It may even lead to pain, anguish and frustration. But in reality there is promised rest and freedom in obeying the precepts of our Heavenly Father.

Isa 51:4 Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people. Isa 51:5 My righteousness [is] near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust. Isa 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
 
Here is just a piece that I am working on at home, you can figure in between the lines? --Elijah

Deut.8
[1] All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.
[2] And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

(and you surely can hear satan & his crew cry out with reams & reams of works & with what Keith states as [only] 'believism' to PROVE thee! What is in your heart, and how are you proved?? ONLY upon one 7th Day Sabbath Commandment.. starting with Remember! And it is located in Exod. 16:4-8, 27-28, and see verse 35
Let's just give the reason that Abram & his seed were called of God to be leader's in Israel's organization long before he was called Abraham. In Gen. 12 we see that he was a Gentile soul winner. And one must remember that God talked with His Own from Gen. on up to Mount Sinai to when the people FEARED GOD/CHRIST (not Son/Christ/Yet) and asked for God not to speak to them personally anymore. And the reason God called Abram is clearly seen in Gen. 26

[3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
[4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; (in part!)

PS: 'i' forget verse 5, huh :yes
[5] Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. (and there is NO FALSE ONLY 'WORKLESS BELIEVISM' in Christ/God's Word ever seen! And I pen Christ/God?? Long before Israel were organized! Abe even was a tithe payer to the LORDS PRIEST. I will give the Word of Christ/God on that momentarily!))
 
RND said:
I know some people do...many Jews still try to follow the stone law, but they'll never find any rest in it.

Imagine Joseph.

What a terrible burden it must have been for him to turn down the advances of Potiphar's wife. No doubt he temporarily would have experienced much more liberty and freedom had he relented and caved in to her lust for him and abandoned the word of the Lord. But at what price would that liberty and freedom have cost?

Instead the man stood firm and was determined not to sin against his Heavenly Father. And look what his integrity cost him. It cost his freedom for he was imprisoned for not violating the law of God! He lost all freedom because he stood firm amidst the false accusations of another man's wife. And yet, even though Potiphar's wife meant to do harm to Joseph, because he spurned her advances and accepted the burden of remaining true to the law of the Lord our Heavenly Father turned the tables and was able to bless Joseph in a mighty way. The burden he accepted because of his fidelity was rewarded with riches, power and freedom unmatched!

It is true that initially Joseph chose to obey the commandments of the Lord. Because he did he had no rest. The burden was great. Falsely accused and imprisoned for remaining faithful to the Lord he temporarily lost his freedom and was burdened with time in a jail cell.

Yet eventually Joseph did find rest and comfort in obeying the precepts of God over the precept of man. And the lesson for us is this. Obeying the commandments of God may at times might not be the most convenient or expedient thing to do. It may even lead to pain, anguish and frustration. But in reality there is promised rest and freedom in obeying the precepts of our Heavenly Father.

Isa 51:4 Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people. Isa 51:5 My righteousness [is] near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust. Isa 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
Love the Lord with all your heart mind and soul and love others as yourself - if you follow those 2 commandments, you will not go against the 10 commandments, our Sabbath is in Jesus. We do NOT live under the law anymore.
 
"Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

1) "Abraham obeyed my voice"

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

God's covenant of hope and promise was originally spoken from the mouth of God to the tribe of Israel at the base of the mount.

Exd 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine: Exd 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Exd 20:1 ¶ And God spake all these words, saying,

2) "kept my charge"

Watch, duty, or observance.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.

3) my commandments

mitsvah = a command, whether human or divine

Deu 4:40 Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong [thy] days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.

4) my statutes

chuqqah = appointed, custom, manner, ordinance, site, statute.

Ps 119:16 I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.

5) my laws

towrah = a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch

Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

So there we have it. If we are like Abraham and obey the voice of the Lord and the words that proceed from His mouth, if we keep our charge and duty to Him, hear His commands, delight in His statutes then certainly The Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ will keep Their promise to love us, come into us, and abide with us.
 
DarcyLu said:
Love the Lord with all your heart mind and soul and love others as yourself - if you follow those 2 commandments, you will not go against the 10 commandments,
These two commandments were part of the "Old Covenant."
our Sabbath is in Jesus.
I've heard that but I've never found the commandment that says, "Forget the sabbath day, it's no longer holy." Have you?
We do NOT live under the law anymore.
Sure we do, and if you don't think you do go out and break it. Hate your neighbor or enemy? You've just broken the law.

But this is interesting to examine because we have to determine what "law" Paul was talking about here. Are we under the law that says if you sin you must kill a female lamb, have the High Priest take it's blood into the sanctuary and sprinkle it before the curtain shielding the throne of God?

Nope.

Does that mean we can break any one of the ten commandments whenever we like?

Nope.
 
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Question: If there is no law against love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, or temperance is there a law against doing the opposite of these things? Yes or no.
 
RND said:
These two commandments were part of the "Old Covenant."
Did I say that? NO!
RND said:
I've heard that but I've never found the commandment that says, "Forget the sabbath day, it's no longer holy." Have you?
Read and PRAY about about Hebrews 4
RND said:
Sure we do, and if you don't think you do go out and break it. Hate your neighbor or enemy? You've just broken the law.
No, because Jesus gave us those 2 commandments, now if I broke the one which says love your neighbor - then I would hate him wouldn't I. I would not be in obedience to "love your neighbor".
Jesus fulfilled the law!
Are you Jewish?
 
DarcyLu said:
Did I say that? NO!
No, you're right, I did. I was pointing out that the commandment to love our neighbor as ourselves and to love God with all our heart, mind, and soul (Shema prayer) are both found in the Torah. Lev. 19:18 and Deu. 6:4-6

Read and PRAY about about Hebrews 4
I have read it and prayed about it many times. Tell me, do you know what "sabbatismos" means.

No, because Jesus gave us those 2 commandments, now if I broke the one which says love your neighbor - then I would hate him wouldn't I. I would not be in obedience to "love your neighbor".
Yes, and then you'd be a lawbreaker.

Jesus fulfilled the law!
So because Jesus kept the law perfectly you don't have to?

Are you Jewish?
Sure, are you?

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
 
RND said:
Read and PRAY about about Hebrews 4
I have read it and prayed about it many times. Tell me, do you know what "sabbatismos" means.

the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians
Jesus is the "sabbatismos"

RND said:
Yes, and then you'd be a lawbreaker.
It's not a law, it's a manifestation of having Jesus IN us, it is an attribute of the Fruit of the Spirit.
RND said:
So because Jesus kept the law perfectly you don't have to?
It's very simple RND and you are making it difficult, He who did not sin, lives IN you. The Bible tells me I have been crucified with Christ, it is I who no longer lives but He in me. Now if we are obedient to Love the Lord and Love your neighbors, then we are abiding in Him, who had no sin.
RND said:
Sure, are you?

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
What I was trying to find out is if you believed the NT.
 
DarcyLu said:
the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians
Jesus is the "sabbatismos"
Great! Does that eliminate keeping His sabbath that he made and keeping another day?
It's not a law, it's a manifestation of having Jesus IN us, it is an attribute of the Fruit of the Spirit.
Sure it's law. It's His commandment.

Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

It's very simple RND and you are making it difficult, He who did not sin, lives IN you.
That's right. So should I sin more so His grace abounds?
The Bible tells me I have been crucified with Christ, it is I who no longer lives but He in me.
Did Jesus keep the sabbath? Aren't we instructed to walk as He walked?

Now if we are obedient to Love the Lord and Love your neighbors, then we are abiding in Him, who had no sin.
Wouldn't that mean honoring God's sabbath day instead of the pagan Sunday? In other words where does God word forget my sabbath day, it's no longer Holy. You tell me to read Hebrews 4 but that indicates to me that there is still a keeping of the sabbath and says nothing about the sabbath no longer being a set apart and sanctified day.

Tell me, how did God "de" sanctify His sabbath when he says He doesn't change the thing that goes out of His mouth?

What I was trying to find out is if you believed the NT.
Every word. Why didn't you just come right out and ask me? What would you have said if I said, "Why yes as a matter of fact I am Jewish."?
 
"Many ministers and theologians have applied the opposite meaning to Hebrews 4:9. They have completely misinterpreted the King James Version of this verse, which reads, “There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.†They teach that Christians are no longer required to observe the Sabbath because Jesus Christ has given them “rest†by releasing them from commandment keeping and thereby He “fulfilled the law†for them. As a result, they are told that he or she has entered into a spiritual “rest†from sin and does not have to keep the commandments of God. Such reasoning is completely false. Jesus Himself said that He did not come to abolish or “do away with†the laws and commandments of God, but to fulfill them. Neither did Jesus Christ fulfill any commandment for anyone in order to release him or her from the obligation to keep them. He set the example for us—not to force us but to free us from committing sin (I Pet. 2:21-22, I John 3:4).

When we understand the meaning of the Greek text, there is no question that the New Testament upholds the authority of the Fourth Commandment for Christians today. The Greek word that is used in Hebrews 4:9, sabbatismoV, pronounced sabbatismos, which means “Sabbath rest, Sabbath observance†(Arndt and Gingrich, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament).

This definition of the Greek word sabbatismoV sabbatismos is confirmed by other historical works: “The words ‘sabbath rest’ is translated from the GK noun sabbatismos, [and is] a unique word in the NT. This term appears also in Plutarch (Superset. 3 [Moralia 166a]) for sabbath observance, and in four post-canonical Christian writings which are not dependent on Heb. 4:9†(The Anchor Bible Dictionary, Vol. 5, p. 856).

The Greek word, sabbatismoV sabbatismos, is a noun. The verb form of the word is sabbatizw sabbatizo, which means “to keep the Sabbath†(Arndt and Gingrich, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament).

This definition of sabbatizw Sabbatizo is confirmed by its use in the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament which dates from third century BC. It is called the Septuagint, meaning “Seventy†because the first five books were translated by seventy scholars who were Greek-speaking Jews in Alexandria, Egypt. Jews used the Septuagint in synagogues throughout the Roman empire, and by the Greek-speaking Jewish and Gentile coverts in the early New Testament church. The apostle Paul, quotes extensively from the Septuagint in his epistle to the Hebrews. When Paul used the Greek word sabbatismoV sabbatismos in Hebrews 4:9, he knew that the meaning of this word was well known to the Greek-speaking believers of that day. The verb form sabbatizw, sabbatizo was used in the Septuagint which was as familiar to the Greek-speaking Jews and Gentiles of New Testament times as the King James Bible is to Christians today.

The use of the verb sabbatizw sabbatizo in Leviticus 23:32 in the Septuagint leaves no room to mistake its meaning. The Greek English Lexicon of the Septuagint defines sabbatizw sabbatizo as “to keep sabbath, to rest†(Lust, Eynikel, Hauspie). The English translation of this verse in the Septuagint reads: “It [the Day of Atonement] shall be a holy sabbath [literally, ‘a Sabbath of Sabbaths’] to you; and ye shall humble your souls, from the ninth day of the month: from evening to evening shall ye keep your sabbaths†(The Septuagint With the Apocrypha, Brenton).

The phrase “shall ye keep your sabbaths†is translated from the Greek phrase sabbatieite ta sabbata sabbatieite ta sabbata, which literally means, “You shall sabbathize the Sabbaths.†The form of the Greek verb sabbatizw sabbatizo is the second person plural sabbatieite sabbatieite, which means, “ye shall keep.†Since the verb sabbathize, means “to keep the Sabbath,†this verb is a special verb that also relates to and defines “Sabbath-keeping,†for God’s command for the land Sabbath every seven years. In the entire Septuagint, the verb sabbatizw sabbatizo is never used to define the “keeping†of anything else. Rather, it is always used in relation to “Sabbath-keeping†and “Sabbath-keeping†only. In keeping with this definition, the KJV translates sabbatieite sabbatieite, this way: “shall ye celebrate your sabbath.â€

There is no question that the Greek verb sabbatizw sabbatizo in Leviticus 23:32 is specifically referring to Sabbath observance. This meaning applies equally to the noun form sabbatismoV sabbatismos, which we find in Paul’s epistle to Hebrews. The fact that Paul used the Septuagint translation in this epistle confirms that the meaning word sabbatismoV sabbatismos, in Hebrews 4:9, is in complete accord with the meaning of sabbatieite ta sabbata sabbatieite ta sabbata, in Leviticus 23:32. Clearly Paul is upholding the observance of the Sabbath, the seventh day of the week.

The use of the Greek word sabbatismoV sabbatismos in Hebrews 4:9 contradicts the teachings that the Fourth Commandment has been abolished. As the context of this verse shows, the observance of the seventh day as a day of rest and worship is as binding for the people of God today, as it was for Israel of old. In addition to the weekly Sabbath, the annual holy days that God commanded, which are also called Sabbaths, are included in the Fourth Commandment. In the same manner as true believers are commanded to keep the seventh-day Sabbath, they are also commanded to observe the annual holy days of God. The early New Testament church kept the holy days of God, as determined by the calculated Hebrew Calendar. The apostle Paul kept the holy days and commanded Gentile converts to keep them (I Cor. 5:7-8). None of the apostles or the early converts to Christianity observed the pagan holidays that are now called Christmas or Easter. These holidays, which originated in sun worship, were later adopted into Christianity, through the influence of the Roman church. They became false substitutes for the annual holy days that are commanded by God, just as Sunday has become a false substitute for the weekly Sabbath.

Paul carries his instruction even further, showing that we have to keep the Sabbath or lose salvation. "For he that is entered into His rest [keeping the Sabbath], He also has ceased from his own works, as God did from His [when He created the Sabbath day]â€

"We should be diligent therefore to enter into that rest [Sabbath-keeping, as well as striving to enter into the Kingdom of God], lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience. For the Word of God is living, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is able to judge the thoughts and intents of the heart" (Heb. 4:10-12, AT).

What could be more clear? God's Holy Word reveals that if we want to be true Christians, we must be loving God the Father and Jesus Christ. We must be living by every word of God, keeping His commandments. This is how we are to follow Jesus Christ and the teachings of the Bible. There is no question that we should be observing the seventh-day weekly Sabbath as the day of worship and fellowship."

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Whatever anyone says to dispute your claim, you will not believe anyway. You continue living under the law and I will live in the grace of Christ and resting in Him.
 
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