Should Christians take medicine ?

[Cornelius]

The issue is not(for christians) IF God can work through any man. Yes He can. The issue is for christians what Gods will and desire for us is.

Does God desire more that His children should be treated with doctors and scientists and methods of the world, that often cause reactions, side effects, money etc... and that give Him little glory and take no or little faith?

OR

Does God desire more that His children look to His promises and work on the cross and covenants trusting only in Him so that all glory is given to Him and Him alone, to recieve His grace which is free, perfect, with no side effects, no reactions, no lasting damage, where faith in Him is walked in, as the just shall live by faith and where they rely on Him as their faithful Dad in all matters of their lives which really are not even their own but belong to him?

This is a false choice, built on an entirely unscriptural dualism where the material order is deemed fallen and corrupt, which we should seek to relativize in deference to a spiritual order that is pure and undefiled.

This is not what the Bible actually teaches, even though these views are indeed widely held. God created the material order - the plants, and other elements that go into medecines - and He said it was very good. Jesus has inaugurated the healing of the material order.

God does work through people to accomplish His purposes. Therefore a choice to seek conventional medical therapy is not, as you represent, a choice to seek a solution that bypasses God.

Those who promote the view you are promoting routinely misrepresent it as such. It is not.

You realize you are then saying:

God desires more that His children do not look to His promises and work on the cross and covenants. Not trusting only in Him so that all glory is given to Him and Him alone, and not to receive His grace which is free, perfect, with no side effects, no reactions, no lasting damage. As the just shall not live by faith and where they rely on Him as their faithful Dad in all matters of their lives He will fail them.


Are you seriously thinking that your message has anything to do with the gospel?

 

[Drew]

drew do you forget that God made it good and then it got corrupted and was subject to vanity? why do you think we must be born again from heaven

Of course I do not forget it. But, as per the quote I just gave from Colossians 1, God is presently redeeming His created order. There is no scriptural reason to reject medicine and medical technology. They are indications that God is indeed following through on His promises - healing the world "from within", just as He has done in the covenant plan through the very "human" group known as Israel.

I should not have to remind people that, in the covenant, God elected to work through his creation - through a specific people. He did not work "outside" creation, parachuting a "miraculous" solution in like magic. The line some people seem to be taking here assumes that, contrary to what the scriptures tell us, God doesn't actually work through human institutions, such as medecine or the nation of Israel, to heal the world.

What does Paul tell us in Romans about how God works?

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, ....

Yet another example that God works out his purposes through his creation - He renews the human mind.

 

[Drew]

You realize you are then saying:

God desires more that His children do not look to His promises and work on the cross and covenants. Not trusting only in Him so that all glory is given to Him and Him alone, and not to receive His grace which is free, perfect, with no side effects, no reactions, no lasting damage. As the just shall not live by faith and where they rely on Him as their faithful Dad in all matters of their lives He will fail them.

Are you seriously thinking that your message has anything to do with the gospel?

You are completely misrepresenting what I am saying. I never said anything of the sort. It is your way of seeing things that equates a choice of embracing medecine with rejecting God and His promises.

The readers are (hopefully) not idiots - if they are reading my posts they will know that it is precisely this false equality that I am challenging - and challenge is borne out in the scriptures through many many examples of God using human agency to achieve his purposes.

The reason you think I am saying what you say I am saying is that you are projecting your own unscriptural position onto me. God has a track record of working through human beings and their institutions.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

drew do you forget that God made it good and then it got corrupted and was subject to vanity? why do you think we must be born again from heaven

Of course I do not forget it. But, as per the quote I just gave from Colossians 1, God is presently redeeming His created order. There is no scriptural reason to reject medicine and medical technology. They are indications that God is indeed following through on His promises - healing the world "from within", just as He has done in the covenant plan through the very "human" group known as Israel.

I should not have to remind people that, in the covenant, God elected to work through his creation - through a specific people. He did not work "outside" creation, parachuting a "miraculous" solution in like magic. The line some people seem to be taking here assumes that, contrary to what the scriptures tell us, God doesn't actually work through human institutions, such as medecine or the nation of Israel, to heal the world.

What does Paul tell us in Romans about how God works?

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, ....

Yet another example that God works out his purposes through his creation - He renews the human mind.

No one is saying God doesnt work through His creation, we are suggesting that God through His born again c reation brights the kingdom of God to the world through the gospel. Part of bringing th egospel to the lost world is to HEAL THE SICK.We see how Jesus told them to do this and it was not in medicine an dherbs and docs. They commanded it done by faith!God worked THROUGH His born again creation THROUGH the covenant and gospel made in JESUS BLOOD.THROUGH our faith, sometimes THROUGH the laying on of hands, sometimes THROUGH annointing iwth oil and prayer.

you have built up an idea here that you think you are intellectually building up with the word but it is devoid of faith, or the gospel, or the atonement. itis also devoid of scriptural examples of anyone pointing us to use medicine or doctors.

 

[Drew]

They commanded it done by faith!

Again, you simply assume that faith that God is actually working through His created order is not "real faith". And yet the scriptures are clear - God does work through His created order. The Old Testament is full of this.

So you assume the very thing that we are talking about. And what's worse, you do so in light of Biblical evidence to the contrary.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

They commanded it done by faith!

Again, you simply assume that faith that God is actually working through His created order is not "real faith". And yet the scriptures are clear - God does work through His created order. The Old Testament is full of this.

So you assume the very thing that we are talking about. And what's worse, you do so in light of Biblical evidence to the contrary.

give the biblical evidence in regards to healing directly please thank you

 

[Cornelius]

He did not work "outside" creation, parachuting a "miraculous" solution in like magic.

So you must have a huge problem with Jesus healing the sick.
Also a huge problem with the Apostles healing the sick.
A huge problem with the 70 as they went our healing the sick and casting out demons and raising the dead.
Moses splitting the Red Sea.
God just dropping Manna from heaven.
Birds dropping out of the sky for food
Water from a rock
Axe floating on water
Jesus walking on water
Phillip disappearing and appearing somewhere else (you would have told him to use a donkey like God intended and to forget about all this miraculous nonsense )
You would have told Enoch to wait for death like all the rest and not use faith to be translated.
You would have told the woman who were suffering from bleeding, not to bother touching Jesus, just to go to endless doctors she has been seeing all the time.
You would tell Jesus its silly to look for your tax money in a fish, because God gave us banks to save up for such an event.
You would tell Him to buy bread like anybody else, because God gave us bakers so we can feed the multitude.
Paul you would have told that he should not take a chance after the snake bit him, he must see a doctor with no delay.

I do not see the gospel you preach anywhere in the Bible.

 

[Drew]

give the biblical evidence in regards to healing directly please thank you

I am not sure exactly what you are asking here. I think that your argument is that I will find no texts that suggest that we should "go to the scientists" to seek healing.

If so, you are fundamentally begging the question. You seem to be arguing like this:

1. There are texts where we are told to lay on hands, or otherwise appeal to God in a manner that leaves out medical technology, and that healing will result;

2. There are no texts where are told to "go the doctor and get medicine" if you want to be healed.

3. Therefore, the Christians should never use medical technology.

Do I really need to explain what is wrong with this?

 

[Drew]

So you must have a huge problem with Jesus healing the sick.

My job is much harder since I continually have to set you straight on your misrepresentations of what I have posted. By contrast, you are not faced with a similar burden.

I have never, directly or otherwise, implied that "directly miraculous" things do not happen. I merely pointed out that God has a proven track record of working through his creation in way that would not normally be seen as "miraculous".

 

[Cornelius]

So you are saying because there are no texts telling me not to smoke, I can smoke.

 

[Cornelius]

I can safely say, that miracles as the solution, is definitely the emphasis in the Bible. Not only the preferred way, but something that God links to our walk as Christians. It goes with the territory.Its what happens when Christians believe God and rest from their own works.

 

[Drew]

So you are saying because there are no texts telling me not to smoke, I can smoke.

Of course not, Please go back and read what I wrote again. You think that I am endorsing a certain line of thinking. Not so - I am critiquing those who would say "since there are no texts telling us to use medical technology, we should not use medical technology.

 

[Drew]

I can safely say, that miracles as the solution, is definitely the emphasis in the Bible. Not only the preferred way, but something that God links to our walk as Christians.

Perhaps you can give some evidence for this - that God "prefers" to heal miraculously.

 

[Cornelius]

I can safely say, that miracles as the solution, is definitely the emphasis in the Bible. Not only the preferred way, but something that God links to our walk as Christians.

Perhaps you can give some evidence for this - that God "prefers" to heal miraculously.

Well if I posted all the gospels together, you might notice the overwhelming times that Jesus healed miraculously and the sad lack of the mention of any other method , from Jesus. If God "preferred" the other method, Jesus would have pushed it , because He came to do the will of the Father.

Seeing that He came to do the will of the Father, I must logically conclude that in the face of the lack of Jesus showing the will of the Father to be anything else, that miraculous healing is thus the ultimate and preferred method of healing as shown clearly by Jesus, who also told us to follow Him in all His ways.

 

[lovely]

Has anyone considered the verses I alluded to that indicate that medicine is good, and a provision? Another thought, when someone is healed with the help of medicines, did God heal them? Shall we thank God, or shall we simply say that satan healed them through witchcraft...which seems like it would be a house divided against itself. Did the Good Samaritan use witchcraft when he bound the wounds, cleaned them with wine, and applied a healing oil?

Like Job, I will be restored one day too. I will have a body that has been redeemed forever. God's promises are no doubt true, but my instant desires and wishes are not God's commands, my time frame is not His...He will work His plan in His time. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things unseen. I believe God has done it, before the foundations of the world, but it is up to Him to work His plan and redeem me, my body...I believe it as it is already done.

I quoted the scripture about Paul to show that God does tell us no at times for His purpose. He allowed satan's messenger to remain a thorn for His purpose, even though He says that in the name of Jesus they will flee. God delays, denies, or does based on His will. 'Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven'. That is why Paul rejoiced in his sufferings, trials, infirmities, etc. The idea is that we seek His Kingdom first, not our own personal healing, riches, etc. we lay our lives down, and do not seek to keep them but to do His will...always rejoicing.

I still would like a response on those places in the Word where medicine is considered something good. In the interest of not having a vain dispute, I will scale back a bit. I keep feeling like I have to clear up my points. Anyway, the post is on page 3, I belive. If someone would like the specific verses, I will take the time to look them up if they are willing to respond. For now, I have the phrases and the books in my earlier post.

 

[Sinthesis]

I can safely say, that miracles as the solution, is definitely the emphasis in the Bible. Not only the preferred way, but something that God links to our walk as Christians. It goes with the territory.Its what happens when Christians believe God and rest from their own works.

Matthew 4:5-7 directly contradicts your viewpoint.

The false teaching of faith healers compels people to be led by Satan to reject the provision of others in an effort to test God.

http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2009/02/08/when-parents-call-god-instead-of-the-doctor/

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Should Christians take medicine ?

I many ways we already do.....If you eat what God wants you to eat,,,and obey,,, many of the foods and things we take in are for restoration (medicine )to the body.....

 

[Cornelius]

Times are upon the world that soon will make it impossible for Christians to buy medical help if you do not have the mark. In those days, you too will have to be ready in your faith to survive or perish. During biological warfare, it will be faith that carries you through. God reacts on faith alone.

When the money fails (and it will) we all have to be ready to believe God for His miraculous provision. So do not wait for that day before you all start practicing faith. Do not wait for a life threatening incurable something before you start practicing faith. You first need to overcome the common flue.

When the Medical Insurance fails (and it will) then it might be too late to start wondering how faith works. In my country we are there now. Also in Zimbabwe, the medical system has collapsed. When Cholera broke out, there were no doctors and nurses, there was no meds and no help. The Christians with faith lived and those without died. 'Coming soon to a country you call your own!" When the toxin in the vaccine gets injected by law into your children, its going to be your faith that must keep them from harm.

Without faith we cannot please God. Read your Bibles, its written to you personally. Leave powerless doctrines of man and walk with the Lord. Chuck religion out the door and go for God with all you have. You will be persecuted for sure, but carry on, because its worth it. Its your life that we are talking about.

C

 

[Cornelius]

I can safely say, that miracles as the solution, is definitely the emphasis in the Bible. Not only the preferred way, but something that God links to our walk as Christians. It goes with the territory.Its what happens when Christians believe God and rest from their own works.

Matthew 4:5-7 directly contradicts your viewpoint.

The false teaching of faith healers compels people to be led by Satan to reject the provision of others in an effort to test God.

http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2009/02/08/when-parents-call-god-instead-of-the-doctor/

That is nonsense. We are busy talking about healing and you are talking about jumping off buildings to prove that God can catch you. You are using the scriptures that speak about not testing God, as if they are a warning for us not to trust God.

So you cannot not trust God with anything , because you will be "testing" Him. Do you know how ludicrous that is ?

 

[Drew]

That is nonsense. We are busy talking about healing and you are talking about jumping off buildings to prove that God can catch you. You are using the scriptures that speak about not testing God, as if they are a warning for us not to trust God.

So you cannot not trust God with anything , because you will be "testing" Him. Do you know how ludicrous that is ?

It is not nonsense. The text speaks precisely to the issue. What is going on in Matthew 4:5-7? Satan is basically asking Jesus "Since the Scriptures say that God will miraculously rescue you, why not throw yourself down?". And Jesus responds "Do not test God".

This is directly analogous. A person with cancer is in the same position as Jesus would be if He leaped - both are in a situation that only God could rescue them from and only by clear miraculous intervention.

If Jesus chooses not to "put God to the test" re the promised intervention, neither should we put God to the test by rejecting medical treatment, thereby effectively "forcing God's hand" in respect to promised healing.