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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Last time I put God "to the test", He healed me. And the time before as well and the time before. I also "put Him to the test" and asked Him to help me pay off all my debt, because He told me two years ago that the economy was going to crash. He paid off my house and two cars as well. (One is a car for my mother, I only drive one). I also "put Him to the test" every month, because I work for and by myself . I placed my faith in Him and not in the economy and He has been providing work from the strangest places for me. Not just for me, but for my friends who also "put Him to the test" . We all believe He can supply all of our needs, and you know what: He actually does !
A friend of mine needed $1800 before the end of last week. ALL the doors closed and she had no way to get that money to pay an outstanding bill. She "tested God" and told somebody that the Lord WILL supply. That day her phone rang and a woman who owed her money for more than a year, phoned and told her she is paying more that $2000 into her account that day. God paid in more, because He knew she also needed to pay something else, not just the $1800.
Strange how He somehow honors it, when we "put Him to the test" by believing what He said. One would think that He would have struck us dead by now for trusting Him.
A friend of mine needed $1800 before the end of last week. ALL the doors closed and she had no way to get that money to pay an outstanding bill. She "tested God" and told somebody that the Lord WILL supply. That day her phone rang and a woman who owed her money for more than a year, phoned and told her she is paying more that $2000 into her account that day. God paid in more, because He knew she also needed to pay something else, not just the $1800.
Strange how He somehow honors it, when we "put Him to the test" by believing what He said. One would think that He would have struck us dead by now for trusting Him.
GodspromisesRyes
Member
- Aug 26, 2009
- 774
- 1
To say that to have cancer and not go to the doctor is the same as if Jesus would have jumped from a cliff is ludicrious! Now purposely giving yourself cancer and then asking God to heal you would be testing God. Injecting y ourself with ebola and then praying for healing is testing God, but leaning on Gods promises and seeking Him in faith for healing since he already promised it is not testing him it is obeying him and loving him and believing him.
If you are seriously going to say that having an illness and not going to a doctor is testing God, then Jesus should have rebuked every single person who came to him alone for healing except the woman who spent all her money on doctors with no results. You would have to lay fault at the feet of Jesus himself for allowing all these people to come to HIM! You also would need to lay fault at james feet for saying if any is sick amoung you let him to to the ELDERS(not doctors) and they will pray and annoint you and you SHALL be healed.
Now it is clear that alot of people are using their own logic because they do not have any scriptures here to show by example or command that we should do as they say, and they excuse away the tons of scriptures that show all our commands, promises, covenants and examples by holy men and women towards faith and healing by God.
Now as far as this idea that God does what he does through his creation without the miraculous using abraham and israel as examples also is ludicrious. God used abraham because of faith and abraham had miracles! It is because abraham believed God FOR A MIRACLE to FULFILL HIS PROMISE to give abraham a son(by the way, beyond what doctors would have told abraham is physically possible!) that is why after waiting FOR YEARS in FAITH believing for something that was against everything the physical creation showed to be true he finally had isaac the child of promise! THEN God told him to sacrifice him and again abraham knew BY FAIATH God would do a miracle! He would either provide himself a lamb OR RESURRECT ISAAC he knew God was faithful.
God used MOSES by MIRACULOUS means to deliver them out of egypt, He used miracles leading them out, feeing them there providing for them he kept their shoes and clothes etc... then by MIRACLES he helped them to take the promised land NOT BY PHYSICAL MEANS> NOT within the bounds of creation but by miracles that people beleived God for despite how the physical creation says things dont work that way! You try taking a lamp and putting it in a pitcher and going before an army, blowing a trumpet and breaking the pitcher and seeing if your enemies will turn on each other and desstroy themselves so you overcome the war and dont have to fight! Go ask a scientist if that will work!
The patriarchs walked by FAITH not by sight, not by what this creation shows as possible. i just came across this scripture and it reminds me of cornelius's mention of what kinda teachers are teaching some of you this stuff, they will surely answer for it.
Eze 34:2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe [be] to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
Eze 34:3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: [but] ye feed not the flock.
Eze 34:4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up [that which was] broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.
Eze 34:5 And they were scattered, because [there is] no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
Eze 34:6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek [after them].
Eze 34:7 ¶ Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
Eze 34:8 [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because [there was] no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
Eze 34:9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
Eze 34:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.
If you are seriously going to say that having an illness and not going to a doctor is testing God, then Jesus should have rebuked every single person who came to him alone for healing except the woman who spent all her money on doctors with no results. You would have to lay fault at the feet of Jesus himself for allowing all these people to come to HIM! You also would need to lay fault at james feet for saying if any is sick amoung you let him to to the ELDERS(not doctors) and they will pray and annoint you and you SHALL be healed.
Now it is clear that alot of people are using their own logic because they do not have any scriptures here to show by example or command that we should do as they say, and they excuse away the tons of scriptures that show all our commands, promises, covenants and examples by holy men and women towards faith and healing by God.
Now as far as this idea that God does what he does through his creation without the miraculous using abraham and israel as examples also is ludicrious. God used abraham because of faith and abraham had miracles! It is because abraham believed God FOR A MIRACLE to FULFILL HIS PROMISE to give abraham a son(by the way, beyond what doctors would have told abraham is physically possible!) that is why after waiting FOR YEARS in FAITH believing for something that was against everything the physical creation showed to be true he finally had isaac the child of promise! THEN God told him to sacrifice him and again abraham knew BY FAIATH God would do a miracle! He would either provide himself a lamb OR RESURRECT ISAAC he knew God was faithful.
God used MOSES by MIRACULOUS means to deliver them out of egypt, He used miracles leading them out, feeing them there providing for them he kept their shoes and clothes etc... then by MIRACLES he helped them to take the promised land NOT BY PHYSICAL MEANS> NOT within the bounds of creation but by miracles that people beleived God for despite how the physical creation says things dont work that way! You try taking a lamp and putting it in a pitcher and going before an army, blowing a trumpet and breaking the pitcher and seeing if your enemies will turn on each other and desstroy themselves so you overcome the war and dont have to fight! Go ask a scientist if that will work!
The patriarchs walked by FAITH not by sight, not by what this creation shows as possible. i just came across this scripture and it reminds me of cornelius's mention of what kinda teachers are teaching some of you this stuff, they will surely answer for it.
Eze 34:2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe [be] to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
Eze 34:3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: [but] ye feed not the flock.
Eze 34:4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up [that which was] broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.
Eze 34:5 And they were scattered, because [there is] no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
Eze 34:6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek [after them].
Eze 34:7 ¶ Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
Eze 34:8 [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because [there was] no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
Eze 34:9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
Eze 34:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.
Tina
Member
- Jun 28, 2009
- 2,165
- 6
^
I strongly believe in healing and miracles directly from the Lord because I've witnessed too many of it not to believe.
The Bible says in Matthew 13:58 - "And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith."
God rewards according to our FAITH. However while I believe in miracles, I don't entirely neglect medicine either. Even in the Bible, Luke was a physician, and there are many doctors today who are also Christians. In my church recently, a doctor gave a testimony of how his sister was raised from the dead ! ... God did what even the doctor could not do to save his own sister .... Now that's what I call a real miracle of God proving Himself superior to human doctors !
In last Sunday's church sermon, my Pastor shared with us that 70% of all sicknesses are caused by bad food, chemicals and preservatives that are added in food today. Without a doubt, we DO need God to heal us because doctors and medicine will not always heal, and medicine has side effects anyway. The sinus pill that I take every morning, while it works wonders in clearing my nose, it also leads to bad dehydration and thirst. Every medicine has side effects, and while we are healed of one condition, we end up with another that needs more prayers and healing !
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.............. :naughty ............... :biglol
I strongly believe in healing and miracles directly from the Lord because I've witnessed too many of it not to believe.
The Bible says in Matthew 13:58 - "And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith."
God rewards according to our FAITH. However while I believe in miracles, I don't entirely neglect medicine either. Even in the Bible, Luke was a physician, and there are many doctors today who are also Christians. In my church recently, a doctor gave a testimony of how his sister was raised from the dead ! ... God did what even the doctor could not do to save his own sister .... Now that's what I call a real miracle of God proving Himself superior to human doctors !
In last Sunday's church sermon, my Pastor shared with us that 70% of all sicknesses are caused by bad food, chemicals and preservatives that are added in food today. Without a doubt, we DO need God to heal us because doctors and medicine will not always heal, and medicine has side effects anyway. The sinus pill that I take every morning, while it works wonders in clearing my nose, it also leads to bad dehydration and thirst. Every medicine has side effects, and while we are healed of one condition, we end up with another that needs more prayers and healing !
.......
......... .............. :naughty ............... :biglolTina said:
Amen, here is a link to many miraculous healings and deliverances that is very faith building to read. I like the way how many say exactly HOW they believed the Lord and how He then acted on their faith. We learn so much through the trials that others have gone through !
http://www.unleavenedbreadministries.or ... estimonies
D
Duckybill
Guest
- Thread starter
- #89
Doctors Are the Third Leading Cause of Death in the U.S.
http://www.naturodoc.com/library/public ... _death.htm
"Accidental death from prescription drugs, even when they are correctly given, is now the fourth leading cause of death in the U.S."
http://www.burtongoldberg.com/health-ar ... events.htm
http://www.naturodoc.com/library/public ... _death.htm
"Accidental death from prescription drugs, even when they are correctly given, is now the fourth leading cause of death in the U.S."
http://www.burtongoldberg.com/health-ar ... events.htm
Drew
Member
- Jan 24, 2005
- 14,249
- 81
No. You are selectively choosing scenarios to avoid the problem that the testing of Jesus presents you with in respect to your position on healing. There is indeed a distinction in the scenarios - Jesus would need to wilfully toss himself off the temple to test God, while the person with cancer has not intentionally given themselves cancer.GodspromisesRyes said:
However, this distinction is not relevant in respect to the matter of testing God. We know, for a fact, that chemotherapy (for example), does improve outcomes in many cancers. So to be presented with the option of chemotherapy, and to reject it, is to test God - you are effectively saying to God "By my refusal to take chemotherapy, I am "forcing you" to heal me miraculoulsy, if I am to be healed at all".
By any reasonable standard, this is putting God to the test.
No she is not, she is merely believing God. He is the One who said that we WERE healed. Nothing wrong to believe Him.Huge difference between believing God and testing Him.Drew said:
Jesus had no reason to jump off the wall, so He would be testing God if He did. But if He indeed were thrown off the wall, He had every right to believe God for His safety.
If cancer came, we have every right to stand on the Word of God. He is the One who gave us the promises. How else do people get healed who trust Him on a daily basis. If God hated this, why does He continually heal them ?
1Pe 2:24 who his own self bare our sins in his body upon the tree, that we, having died unto sins, might live unto righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed.
Does your Bible also say "were" ?
Drew
Member
- Jan 24, 2005
- 14,249
- 81
No. You are doing what others are doing here - ascribing to me a belief that I do not hold and then critiquing that belief. You implicitly attribute to me the belief that there is “either-or†choice involved – that either one seeks miraculous healing or one takes the conventional route. But I am not saying this at all. If I were one of those sick people, I would go to Jesus. And I would also have gone to the doctor before Jesus came to town. It is you (and Cornelius) who are framing this as an “either-or†scenario, committing the “faulty premise†error that is behind the famous “have you stopped beating your wife?†question.GodspromisesRyes said:
By the way, when you insert the phrase “not doctorsâ€Â, you add to the scriptures. James never told anyone to not go to a doctor, so it is deeply misleading to make this “not doctors†qualifier.
There is another matter that needs to be addressed. Jesus did not heal people simply to “prove He was Godâ€Â. And certainly not to suggest that we should bypass conventional medical treatments. He was doing something much deeper. The Jews of the time were living in expectation of coming deliverance by their God, quite possibly through Messianic agency. The scriptures, as per this text from Isaiah, correlated the delivery from exile with healings.
The wilderness and the desert will be glad,
And the Arabah will rejoice and blossom;
Like the crocus
2It will blossom profusely
And rejoice with rejoicing and shout of joy
The glory of Lebanon will be given to it,
The majesty of Carmel and Sharon
They will see the glory of the LORD,
The majesty of our God.
3Encourage the exhausted, and strengthen the feeble.
4Say to those with anxious heart,
"Take courage, fear not
Behold, your God will come with vengeance;
The recompense of God will come,
But He will save you."
5Then the eyes of the blind will be opened
And the ears of the deaf will be unstopped.
6Then the lame will leap like a deer,
And the tongue of the mute will shout for joy
Jesus was very intentionally healing people to symbolically tell the people that in His own life and ministry, the promised deliverance was being brought about.
When you lose sight of the big picture, it is easy to fall into the error of thinking that Jesus, or any other writer of the Scriptures, is endorsing the bypassing of medical technology. Jesus healed people miraculously all right, but certain not to endorse the idea we should not go to the doctor – His purpose in healing was rather to tell Israel that, as per this Isaianic prophecy and others, the time of national deliverance has come.
Drew said:
Strange how Jesus seem to still heal people symbolically these days when I pray for them.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall accompany them that believe: in my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Drew
Member
- Jan 24, 2005
- 14,249
- 81
This, of course, is not at all what is going on. Quite the reverse, actually. Scriptural arguments have been made about Abraham and Israel - how God worked through human agency. Not to mention the example of hardened Israel - again clear example of God achieving His purposes through the agencies of "mere humans". So please do not misrepresent the situation. Scriptural arguments have been presented against your position.GodspromisesRyes said:
It also needs to be stated that this logic is demonstrably false:
1. There are scriptural commands to seek "miraculous" healings;
2. There are no scriptural command to go to the doctor;
3. Therefore we should not go to the doctor.
This is like making this argument:
1. There are scriptural examples of God using a miracle to get people across a body of water - the Red Sea;
2. There are no scriptural examples of God telling engineers to build tunnels and bridges;
3. Therefore, we should not build bridges and tunnels - we should pray for the waters to be parted.
Drew
Member
- Jan 24, 2005
- 14,249
- 81
First of all, I suggest that you are simply mistaken if you are telling us that Jesus has appeared bodily and healed people since His ascension. The fact that healings of a miraculous nature still occure does not do any damage to my argument at all. When Jesus was here in person - if a form where His activitly was publically visible to all - He did indeed heal, I suggest, primarily to announce that the Messianic expectation of deliverance was being worked out in His own life and mission.Cornelius said:
This is the message that the healings were intended to convey, certainly not that we are to reject medical technology.
Drew
Member
- Jan 24, 2005
- 14,249
- 81
What an absurd and outrageous statement.Cornelius said:
It is exceedingly hard to engage in a serious discussion when Biblical arguments that I provide are met with "you are not a believer" - no attempt to engage the argument, just simple dismissal of me. I thought that the TOS encouraged us to engage issues, not people.
The reader will know the history here. I provided a Biblical argument - building on the point by Sinthesis - about how rejection of medecine was effectively putting God to the test. Do you dispute my argument, do you engage its contents? No. You dismiss me as lacking belief and understanding.
And, of course, in doing so, you conveniently avoid the challenge that my argument poses to your position.
Drew said:
We are to know no man after the flesh anymore. Christ now lives in the believer. Gal 2:20 says that its no longer I that live, but Christ living in me.I have been crucified with Christ. So Jesus is now in my body and all the bodies , that make up the .......Body of Christ. So He is actually still walking this earth in His people, still healing the sick, raising the dead as when He was here in His first body.
The Bible says you are suppose to see Him in the mirror , not yourself.
Drew
Member
- Jan 24, 2005
- 14,249
- 81
You are indeed mistaken. You ascribe this belief to me because you think that this is an either-or choice - that either we get healed through medecine or we get healed by God.Cornelius said:
The Bible tells us that God feeds the little birds. Do you believe this? Is God not feeding the little birds simply because He uses the agency of the parent bird? I suggest that we all know the answer to this. And that answer undermines your presumption of an "either-or" choice, because, to maintain your position, you would deny that God could use "plain old birds" to "heal" the baby birds of their need for food. And yet He clearly does.
God generally works through His creation, not around it.