Should Christians take medicine ?

[Cornelius]

http://lindaikeji.blogspot.com/2007/04/ ... frica.html

Warning the images here might upset some, so do not look if you know you get upset by things like this !

 

[Cornelius]

If this is God's choice of healing; why do we in Africa not have the same access to this wonderful care of God ? Why did God make this only for the rich?

You mean there are no doctors in Africa ?

One in two people survive on less than one dollar a day.
33% of African population suffer from malnutrition.
Less than 50% of Africa's population has access to the hospitals or doctors

Remember,............. I LIVE here.
C

 

[stovebolts]

C,
I have a quick question that hopefully will allow me to articulate my thoughts.

Isn't it true that what we eat as part of our diet will have a direct effect on our short term and long term health? Say a person lives mostly on fast food, the result would be an increase in cholesterol which could lead to heart attack or stroke. Look at it like cause and effect in the same manner as perhaps working around dangerous chemicals, or lets say asbestos will more than likely result in cancer. In the same way, working in a wood or sheet metal shop will increase your chance of having a finger cut off. In other words, there are certain things that are relative in cause and effect to what you ingest and the environment in which your surrounded.

As I have gotten older, I've developed allergies and several years back they were so bad that I couldn't sleep or function and nothing over the counter would slow them down and yes, I prayed fervently that God take my allergies away. Finally, I went to the Dr.'s and he gave me an allergy shot and a prescription and alas, I was able to sleep and function.

A couple years later I'm at a health seminar and they are talking about antioxidants etc, and to make a long story short, I bought this natural isotonic and guess what? Since I've taken this isotonic, my allergies rarely flare up and since I've become more active (I ran 7 miles last night) my allergies are almost non existent with the exception of a short sneezing episode now and again, or perhaps some itchy eyes if I pick up the cat this time of year. But more to the point, I altered my diet and my lifestyle.

So your probably asking yourself, "What's your point Jeff" Well, here it is.

In some cases, the way we live and the things we ingest will have a positive or negative impact on our health. Medicine is no different. However, it has been my experience that often, there are alternatives to conventional medicine, and those medicines would include ones lifestyle. I prayed for healing and I believe that God answered my prayers by bringing the right people into my life at just the right time and because of it, I'm healthier than I've been in many years... without prescription drugs

In summary, if you've just had a stroke, or your at risk of a stroke because you've eaten fast food all your life, perhaps God can heal you through bringing to light a better, healthier way to live, which may just be the medicine one's looking for.... Just some thoughts

 

[Drew]

Now to say that doctors and medicine should not be looked at as second best sort of just shocks me, i really cannot understand that logic unless you have never been really sick and been healed by God and been really sick and went to the doctor.

It shocks you because I am convinced you have bought into an implicit dualism - you see the material order as somehow "evil" and "fallen" and the "better" path to healing to "go directly to God". If you read what I write - I mean really read it carefully - you will know that I am rejecting this view and arguing (scripturally, I would like to think) that God's choice to work through his creation is no "lesser" a choice than any choice to heal someone in a more "spectacular, miraculous" way.

There is much more at stake than the issue of healing. Many, perhaps most, western Christians have, I suggest, fallen into the error of dualism - that the world and all its elements is "evil" and will ultimately been tossed in the garbage can by God, and that "goodness" only lies in a mysterious immaterial domain. So, naturally enough, with such a view, mistaken though I suggest it is, one thinks that the "spiritual" path, versus the "man-made science path" or the "take medecines that nature gives us" path is a lesser path.

This dualism is a big mistake - God created the material world and declared it to be "very good". He is redeeming it and will not throw it away. God clearly shows us in the scriptures that he works through His creation, and through human agency in particular. The point being that it is a big mistake to relativize as "second best" the very methods that God has shown us He uses.

 

[Free]

Well said Drew. I completely agree. The second paragraph says it all.

 

[jasoncran]

If this is God's choice of healing; why do we in Africa not have the same access to this wonderful care of God ? Why did God make this only for the rich?

the gifts that Gods gives each man(talents) are without repentance, and man will answer to the lord for the failure to bless others with it and give God the glory.

jason

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

Now to say that doctors and medicine should not be looked at as second best sort of just shocks me, i really cannot understand that logic unless you have never been really sick and been healed by God and been really sick and went to the doctor.

It shocks you because I am convinced you have bought into an implicit dualism - you see the material order as somehow "evil" and "fallen" and the "better" path to healing to "go directly to God". If you read what I write - I mean really read it carefully - you will know that I am rejecting this view and arguing (scripturally, I would like to think) that God's choice to work through his creation is no "lesser" a choice than any choice to heal someone in a more "spectacular, miraculous" way.

There is much more at stake than the issue of healing. Many, perhaps most, western Christians have, I suggest, fallen into the error of dualism - that the world and all its elements is "evil" and will ultimately been tossed in the garbage can by God, and that "goodness" only lies in a mysterious immaterial domain. So, naturally enough, with such a view, mistaken though I suggest it is, one thinks that the "spiritual" path, versus the "man-made science path" or the "take medecines that nature gives us" path is a lesser path.

This dualism is a big mistake - God created the material world and declared it to be "very good". He is redeeming it and will not throw it away. God clearly shows us in the scriptures that he works through His creation, and through human agency in particular. The point being that it is a big mistake to relativize as "second best" the very methods that God has shown us He uses.

Are you seriously telling me it is better or as good for a person to go to a doctor and have them cut you open and remove an organ God gave you instead of God just making that organ whole again?
Are you saying that it is as good to loose your house your car all your savings to pay for medicle bills and maybe choose between foods and the price of meds as it would be if God healed it and got it over with for free and for good?

Are you really telling me that it is as good to go to a clinic and sit for 8 hours while a tube pushes tons of literal poison into your body which can make you sick make you weak so that you can purposely kill the immune system God made you with to keep you healthy as it would be for God to just heal you without all this harm to your body?

I am sorry, you have really convinced me that either you have never really been sick enough to know how terrible it is to be under such bondages of doctors and medicines or you just have no faith in God to heal you by His actual covental promises so you feel you must hold this view.

 

[Free]

The point is that God uses both. Going to a doctor is not an indication of a weak faith. That is a false teaching.

I don't suppose that you would agree that God allows sickness for a reason, at times anyway?

Besides, don't you have faith that God could regrow an organ or heal an immune system?

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

The point is that God uses both. Going to a doctor is not an indication of a weak faith. That is a false teaching.

I don't suppose that you would agree that God allows sickness for a reason, at times anyway?

Besides, don't you have faith that God could regrow an organ or heal an immune system?

God absolutly uses sickeness, sickness is a curse that HE MADE. And yes even in the life of a beleiver He can cause or allow sickness, either to chasten and bring repentance or to bring a person to walk in faith of Him for healing and His glory. But never does he give it or allow it so that a person will have to remain under it where he would deny them healing if they believe and are not double minded.

 

[Free]

But never does he give it or allow it so that a person will have to remain under it where he would deny them healing if they believe and are not double minded.

And on what biblical basis can you make that assertion?

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

But never does he give it or allow it so that a person will have to remain under it where he would deny them healing if they believe and are not double minded.

And on what biblical basis can you make that assertion?

2Cr 1:20 For all the promises of God in him [are] yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Isa 53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jam 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Jam 1:8 A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways.

Jhn 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Jhn 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it].

Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Jhn 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give [it] you.
Jhn 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them].

 

[Cornelius]

C,
I have a quick question that hopefully will allow me to articulate my thoughts.

Isn't it true that what we eat as part of our diet will have a direct effect on our short term and long term health? Say a person lives mostly on fast food, the result would be an increase in cholesterol which could lead to heart attack or stroke. Look at it like cause and effect in the same manner as perhaps working around dangerous chemicals, or lets say asbestos will more than likely result in cancer. In the same way, working in a wood or sheet metal shop will increase your chance of having a finger cut off. In other words, there are certain things that are relative in cause and effect to what you ingest and the environment in which your surrounded.

As I have gotten older, I've developed allergies and several years back they were so bad that I couldn't sleep or function and nothing over the counter would slow them down and yes, I prayed fervently that God take my allergies away. Finally, I went to the Dr.'s and he gave me an allergy shot and a prescription and alas, I was able to sleep and function.

A couple years later I'm at a health seminar and they are talking about antioxidants etc, and to make a long story short, I bought this natural isotonic and guess what? Since I've taken this isotonic, my allergies rarely flare up and since I've become more active (I ran 7 miles last night) my allergies are almost non existent with the exception of a short sneezing episode now and again, or perhaps some itchy eyes if I pick up the cat this time of year. But more to the point, I altered my diet and my lifestyle.

So your probably asking yourself, "What's your point Jeff" Well, here it is.

In some cases, the way we live and the things we ingest will have a positive or negative impact on our health. Medicine is no different. However, it has been my experience that often, there are alternatives to conventional medicine, and those medicines would include ones lifestyle. I prayed for healing and I believe that God answered my prayers by bringing the right people into my life at just the right time and because of it, I'm healthier than I've been in many years... without prescription drugs

In summary, if you've just had a stroke, or your at risk of a stroke because you've eaten fast food all your life, perhaps God can heal you through bringing to light a better, healthier way to live, which may just be the medicine one's looking for.... Just some thoughts

First, I must just point out again, that GPR and myself are not preaching AGAINST doctors, but we are saying that trusting God is the higher way, that God Himself would prefer as well.

I use to get a very fast heartbeat when I consumed milk products.I love yogurt and cheese and milk, but I was allergic to it. About two years ago, I started realizing that Jesus in fact took the curse away and I prayed and trusted that the Lord's Word and promises are indeed true about we having been healed . I just prayed and believed that I was healed. Then I started eating yogurt and cheese again , plus I have a neighbor with cows so I buy raw milk from him My heart still raced and sometimes I developed sinus from it. But then I would shake my head and say: " Lord that is impossible, because its against your Word" and I would carry on as normal. Today, I am not allergic to milk at all. God manifested that healing totally.Since then, He healed me of high blood pressure, He fixed my eyes (I am 53) so that I still do not need glasses to read. He fixed my leg which was in constant pain ( I have been standing for 20 years , that is the only way I can paint , is standing at the easel , not sitting down ) A few months ago He removed a painful wart from my foot , that normally needs medical attention to remove. He took some cancerous spots off my face too. He has been keeping me free from "old age pains and aches" LOL and I do not suffer from anything chronic. He healed my liver recently from a chronic condition . He healed my teeth too. Last week He healed me of the flu (It came for two days, by the third it was gone.....this He has done many times). Three weeks ago God healed a new Christian in our fellowship from an arm condition that she has had for a long time, she could not lift it, but now she can. Another friend was healed in the beginning of the year from a cancerous tumor the size of a large grapefruit, that melted away after prayer. There are just too many healings to mention.

So I cannot see the logic anymore in going to the doctor , when God is doing it all the time !

I will tell you that we GROW in faith. I am not walking in this ALL THE TIME 100% , I gave up sometimes, and became double minded and took the meds. First time I left my hipertentions meds (three years ago), I walked into the walls and got scared and started taking them again. Six months later, I felt that I had more faith and this time, I walked into the walls again but this time, there was not fear of death, only faith of healing. So today I am healed and do not walk into the walls anymore.

The other night I had something like an anxiety attack while I was in bed. Normally this would have been really scary, because all of a sudden the rhythm of my heart changed and it started beating way over 160 beats a minute . I do not even have it so high in the gym. But I was in total peace, just thanking the Lord that He had already healed me from this at the cross, whatever this was. It carried on for a while, but I had this strange peace and detachment in me. Not once did I actually go into fear of anything bad. I think if I had added fear, it would have added to whatever was happening. Then it just went away and I slept.

This is a walk, open to any Christian who are willing to believe God. You might fail in the beginning, but that is because His promises are conditional and we have to study the Word to see when we are not meeting the conditions.
C

 

[Cornelius]

If this is God's choice of healing; why do we in Africa not have the same access to this wonderful care of God ? Why did God make this only for the rich?

the gifts that Gods gives each man(talents) are without repentance, and man will answer to the lord for the failure to bless others with it and give God the glory.

jason

Brother, not to argue, but to point out , that those gifts spoken of are the spiritual gifts, like prophecy, healing, tongues , word of knowledge, faith etc.

In Africa, there are simply too many people, and they live so far apart. Some can really only be reached via plane if there is a true emergency and IF they can afford it and IF there is communication.

Africa has its "Flying Doctors" that try to cover the vast areas for free as well. Clinics move around for free to try and treat some things, but its just something humanly impossible. There is no money for this, and not enough people that can help. We still have people here that has never seen a white person, never seen a car, not know what electricity is. Most cannot read in many African countries.Most cannot speak English. Food is problem and so is water.In the link I gave, you can see a boy drinking the urine straight from a cow, because there is no water to drink.

 

[Drew]

Are you seriously telling me it is better or as good for a person to go to a doctor and have them cut you open and remove an organ God gave you instead of God just making that organ whole again?

The very fact that you ask this question shows that you either ignore what I am writing or do not understand what I am writing.

This question that you ask rests on a premise that I have repeatedly challenged, yet without response. There comes a point when a person has to cut his losses and realize that others are not going to engage in proper debate. When you simply ignore my challenges to the presumption of an "either-or" choice between God and science - as if the two are necessarily distinct choices - you are not engaging in proper debate. You cannot simply ignore material that you do not like - you need to engage it.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

Are you seriously telling me it is better or as good for a person to go to a doctor and have them cut you open and remove an organ God gave you instead of God just making that organ whole again?

The very fact that you ask this question shows that you either ignore what I am writing or do not understand what I am writing.

This question that you ask rests on a premise that I have repeatedly challenged, yet without response. There comes a point when a person has to cut his losses and realize that others are not going to engage in proper debate. When you simply ignore my challenges to the presumption of an "either-or" choice between God and science - as if the two are necessarily distinct choices - you are not engaging in proper debate. You cannot simply ignore material that you do not like - you need to engage it.

i believe it was you who said it was not proper to look at doctors and meds as second best to Gods divine healing. So my questions to you were appropriate Either it is equally as good to get cut open as to not be cut open and be divinely healed or one is better than the other. my responses to you are directly about everything you have said to me and i am asking you questions for you to consider and answer back.

 

[jasoncran]

If this is God's choice of healing; why do we in Africa not have the same access to this wonderful care of God ? Why did God make this only for the rich?

the gifts that Gods gives each man(talents) are without repentance, and man will answer to the lord for the failure to bless others with it and give God the glory.

jason

Brother, not to argue, but to point out , that those gifts spoken of are the spiritual gifts, like prophecy, healing, tongues , word of knowledge, faith etc.

In Africa, there are simply too many people, and they live so far apart. Some can really only be reached via plane if there is a true emergency and IF they can afford it and IF there is communication.

Africa has its "Flying Doctors" that try to cover the vast areas for free as well. Clinics move around for free to try and treat some things, but its just something humanly impossible. There is no money for this, and not enough people that can help. We still have people here that has never seen a white person, never seen a car, not know what electricity is. Most cannot read in many African countries.Most cannot speak English. Food is problem and so is water.In the link I gave, you can see a boy drinking the urine straight from a cow, because there is no water to drink.

so they very alphabet you use is mans idea? or the lords, or both ?Who created the modern english language and adds words daily? The modern english alphabet comes from a king named charlemagne in the 800's. yes, i have been to places just a s bad a south africa, afganistan, If i have a gift and calling to be a missionary should i not go and use my vocational talents to help? What if i'm a doctor and use that to help the sick. Humans means have limits i know that. my healing for my back i shouldnt be doing what i'm doing, my back has no curve in the neck from whiplash, yet i have some pain not much, compared to how it used to be.

 

[Cornelius]

so they very alphabet you use is mans idea? or the lords, or both ?

Rev 1:8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God,......... :yes

 

[jasoncran]

so they very alphabet you use is mans idea? or the lords, or both ?

Rev 1:8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God,......... :yes

that would be the greek, but my point is one can ask the lord for a job and a vocational talent, and use that to give the Lord glory, i did and have from time to time used it to bless others in the name of the Lord.

The very first language for the computers was called binary and was desingned in the 1500's as a code if i remember correctly. why that person thought that is strange, but a use was found, i dont get overly analzyling with the bible, but God gave us a mind to think and nowhere does it say to not use it(only that it cant understand things of god, but that doesnt mean anti-intelectaullity) Paul was an intellectual so was solomon, he had wisdom and did study the world around him.

 

[Cornelius]

but God gave us a mind to think and nowhere does it say to not use it

I am not out for an argument as many think, but if you make statements, then somehow scriptures jump into my mind and this time , this one came to me the instant I read what you wrote here:

Pro 3:5 Trust in Jehovah with all thy heart, And lean not upon thine own understanding:
Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, And he will direct thy paths.
Pro 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes; Fear Jehovah, and depart from evil:
Pro 3:8 It will be health to thy navel, And marrow to thy bones.

............but I did not know, (before I looked it up) that God had linked "health" to this scripture. The only bit I heard, was .............."lean not upon thine own understanding"

 

[jasoncran]

all those scriptures are i'm not saying that they arent at all. I learned a long time ago we have common sense and a brain, use them. Would you in right mind drink poison or let a snake bite you to see if a certian scripture is true, there are churches that do that.

jason