Should I publicly correct my teacher?

[Dorothy Mae]

He was speaking to the church. He started out by telling them a lie. He did not tell them he is atheist and he did tell them he is a Christian. Both are lies.

Where did he say that? He told me straight away he was an atheist who used to be a christian. I find him unusually honest.

You asked for yourself, is he seeking the truth? Have you received an answer yet?

Give him time. Have some mercy. He will be honest.

I was just agreeing with Jason's observation. Sorry if I hurt the poor guys feelings, but, he.is.a.liar. and frankly, a ridiculous assertion. Hi I'm atheist, can I teach your children?

I doubt you hurt his feelings. You haven’t the kind of relationship where his feelings would be hurt.

What is this, a joke? This isn't the humor forum. So if the shoe fits.




Am I sure of he who seeks will find and he who knocks it shall be opened unto him...?

Yes I am Sister. explanation is very deep and would dominate the thread and take it off topic. So I'll try not to clutter up this thread with rabbit trails.

Fair enough. But cut him some slack. You are not doing the love of Christ in you justice in your posts. After reading some of them I’m convinced you’re a better man than that.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I felt it needed as led by the Lord

You ought to know that as soon as one kicks in “led by the Lord” we are required to judge if this is so. If you give an opinion, no judgement is necessary but claim God sponsored it and we have to make a judgement call. Far from protecting the message, we have to scrutinize it.

 

[jasonc]

You ought to know that as soon as one kicks in “led by the Lord” we are required to judge if this is so. If you give an opinion, no judgement is necessary but claim God sponsored it and we have to make a judgement call. Far from protecting the message, we have to scrutinize it.

I Should be over anylitical?

No one who posts here is as me on that.i can overthink anything .

I didn't do that here .I just acted in response to his statements .I speak of my own experience.i can irritate teachers with my questions and statements.

I don't believe that technique works .ok attack me ,I get slammed real hard.bruised real hard and sore for days.or because the shihan felt I was no open to learned and I wasn't he then attacked me harder and chocked me and submitted me.subtke way of see I do know things .

Or in my younger days,I was a bit aggressive and the sensei said ,oh you like that ,here a good hit back here and I got a busted lip ,busted knose in both instances controlled.none of them hurt me for life but forced me to listen .

Should I go to the local Wesleyan pastor and ask him why he thinks God is impartial them ask and watch him dance around why God ignored all but isreal in the tanakh .
Wesley had no problems with Gid choosing one nation over another as did my brother I forced my brother to pause when I said ,people make nations ,can't refuse God if he doesn't offer himself and once I notice that slight difference I don't get caught up in the five points.

There are deep battles of cynicism from PTSD,unless you don't have it don't get .why evil,it shakes my faith,the church doesn't get the veteran brotherhood. I had a vet ask me before worship,ever wake up and think today is your day to die ?

I wasn't sure if he having tbi and health problems meant that or with PTSD as he has that too.so for me if I allow it .the demon of taking it is always there.

Yet In church we can't mention this battle openly .

So please ,doubt I know .I don't go asking my pastor in the middle of Galatians 5 teaching on joy.
I simply pray to get there .

No one who hasn't been there could answer me on joy when. No matter. How grateful I should be ,some days I can't .

With PTSD we overthink,I was that way before it made it worse
I'm not afraid of questions .but I also know some do come here and In church under false pretense

 

[T. E. Smith]

Phew, step away from the computer for a couple of hours and a whole torrent of posts.

I am not convinced he’s seeking truth. @T. E. Smith, are you seeking truth?

Edward You also want to know if I am seeking truth. I am seeking to know the proper interpretation of the Bible as the Bible says it. At present I am not a "seeker", but an atheist - but I do try to keep an open mind. I sought truth before, and I think I have found much of it, but it is always possible I am wrong.

Doing this makes you a liar whose word can not be trusted.

No, it doesn't. Just because I don't explicitly state my religion to everyone or anyone at church does not make me a liar, just as not telling everyone or anyone my religion at work does not make me a liar. Besides you are just making an ad hominem argument.

Correct. @T.E.Smith, are you
going to ask questions or take over the teaching?

I would say something like, "I disagree with the idea that a believer cannot fall away, and that if a believer falls away they were never truly saved. Here's some passages that I think suggest otherwise." Not really asking questions. Taking over the teaching? I don't think so.

Right. Something he wont do. SO he has made his decision to not believe. And that should restrict his right to correct the teacher, and rightly so. He holds nothing with Christians, he said so.

I have done it in the past and it was unfruitful.

We should consider what this mans probable motive is to want to correct the teacher? How can he possibly be trying to edify the Children when He doesn't believe any of it.

Ok, it's for the Children and that sounds good so let's hire him?! But he promised he wouldn't try to convert anyone...

That's today. What about tomorrow? What if he has a good or bad day (take your pick) and feels moved to...enlighten the Children?

He has clearly shown himself to be a liar and admitted it. They think he is a Christian, but he is lying on his first day out. Sorry fellah, but you didin't get the job, now get out. Lol. Not my children. Your Children ok to be taught by him? He's here seeking validation and I don't think it's an edifying thing to do, show up on a Christian forum, I'm an atheist, but I lied about it to the church, should I be allowed to stand up and speak for the Children...???

That is Trollish.

Do you have any damn idea (pardon my French) what my parents would do to me, Edward , if I felt moved to "enlighten the children"? No, of course you don't! Don't speak as if you do!

He who seeks, finds. He who knocks it shall be opened...

Conclusion: He's not seeking or knocking. He is lying and said so.

I am not a liar and have never said so.

He’s not speaking for the church

Yes Edward I am not. Certainly I am not asking to be hired! I would not speak to the students directly, but rather to the teacher, in the hearing of students.

Right there, Sister.

I never said I was a liar. Actually, earlier I said "I don't consider this dishonest." I have not told anyone at church "I'm a Christian" because it doesn't matter. It has not come up. Now, at home? I admit that for my personal safety, I claim to be what I am not. And yet this is necessary for my safety and I will speak the truth about myself once I am independent.

Hi I'm atheist, can I teach your children?

I would not claim I am an atheist NOR would I ask to teach children.

I doubt you hurt his feelings. You haven’t the kind of relationship where his feelings would be hurt.

Yes, Edward , only your ignorance has offended me.

 

[T. E. Smith]

So Edward Here is some base for why I don't tell my parents I'm an atheist. My dad has openly stated that he thinks atheists should be EXECUTED. Does that mean that he'd take things into his own hands? Would he change his mind if he learned I'm an atheist? I don't know. And that's exactly why I can't say anything.

 

[jasonc]

Are you forced to go to church?
Are you a Minor?

 

[T. E. Smith]

Are you forced to go to church?
Are you a Minor?

Yes

 

[jasonc]

Yes

No wonder why .

Are you gonna hide that once you move out ?

 

[jasonc]

Yes

It flipping helps if you preface this with a better way .
I don't believe
I am made to go to church but I don't want to.

I have doubts on your dad wanting to kill atheist.

My dad was a turd in my youth ,we didn't see eye to eye and later on I learned I was a jack ass and saw my dad as flawed I forgave him and he repented.my dad died last year.he changed .it wasn't where I wanted it but God did. That .

My dad loved us in his flawed way his bark was worse then his bite .

 

[Edward]

He’s not speaking for the church. And many many offspring of Christians become atheists. Perhaps a reason is they’re not allowed to question because the adults don’t bother to seek truth.

I admire your compassionate heart and it's pretty apparent that you are very empathetic to his situation. I want that kind of heart!

But the Lord did teach me very clearly a few days, to not extend my trust to my inner circle without His direct approval of them. That is my witness. Believe it or don't believe it, that is your choice.

Inasmuch as the church and Children are not my own, it doesn't matter because a spiritual principle is involved here that to me certainly holds true in this situation.

I did not make the precepts of God. I have learned some of them. Ans something smells fishy about, can I take over the teaching position after I have renounced Christ?

No sir, you can not. That's not how it works. First you believe and repent ask forgiveness and get saved. Then the sanctification and learning period begins, then a direction is given and one serves the Lord.

But you can't keep your standing with the Lord after you have confessed to renouncing your faith in God and saying, I don't believe in God.

So he goes to the church and lies. I am a Christian (he's not). He doesn't tell them he is an atheist now, a lie. Oh and by the way, can I teach the Children?!

I'm sorry, no offense. But that's just a teeny red flag. Like about 80 ft X 140 feet.

Sister, the condition of your heart is wonderful and admirable. No prudent Christian would give that man a chance. None.

Now if the Brother shook of that nonsense of God's not real and repented of it and turned back to the Lord...that could change. Nothing is too hard for God.

 

[Edward]

Yes @Edward I am not. Certainly I am not asking to be hired! I would not speak to the students directly, but rather to the teacher, in the hearing of students.

Bud, it doesn't matter which color you whitewash it. It's teaching the Children.
...in the hearing of students

Good that you made that point clear. in the hearing of students, will teach the students. So please don't pee down my back and tell me it's raining.

Ok so he doesn't want the teaching job, just to be able to correct the teacher and enlighten the students at the same time...Umm, okaaayy.

And you can not see how ludicrous this sounds? Really? Brother, on my best day this is highly suspicious. It is not raining and you know it!

I'll pray for you if you wish?

 

[D-D-W]

If you are certain that I will know (you put in bold), the only way you can know for certain that I will know, is if I die. Since many people do not know God before death, you cannot say for sure that I will know, unless you are talking about death.

But if you did not mean that, that's good. It's just that saying to a nonbeliever "You will find out one day" usually refers to on death, and then saying "the sooner the better"... could be easily taken that way.

Certain of you learning in this life - of course not.

But it has happened; and I hope it happens to you. God will sometimes make a supernatural revelation that passes all understanding and logic. I have seen it happen.

 

[jasonc]

As one who planted seeds of doubt that way I was ranked in several arts .I have one who left aikido to go into jujitsu based on my own words .I said don't be afraid to explore other arts .I expressed doubt in the aikido style I ranked In as I had good reason and said .this art may work but the hombu dojo of it is Texas .there is another one locally who is valid and it's master is into softness you can learn that way or burn out.the sensei didn't listen and got burned out. I told him my opinions in private and never said that I was gonna undermine them.i had openly doubted something's and others asked after class .this art was too passive and others had doubts and looked to me when I did say that might better taught this way or I added a caveat when they taught a strike

 

[T. E. Smith]

I admire your compassionate heart and it's pretty apparent that you are very empathetic to his situation. I want that kind of heart!

But the Lord did teach me very clearly a few days, to not extend my trust to my inner circle without His direct approval of them. That is my witness. Believe it or don't believe it, that is your choice.

Inasmuch as the church and Children are not my own, it doesn't matter because a spiritual principle is involved here that to me certainly holds true in this situation.

I did not make the precepts of God. I have learned some of them. Ans something smells fishy about, can I take over the teaching position after I have renounced Christ?

No sir, you can not. That's not how it works. First you believe and repent ask forgiveness and get saved. Then the sanctification and learning period begins, then a direction is given and one serves the Lord.

But you can't keep your standing with the Lord after you have confessed to renouncing your faith in God and saying, I don't believe in God.

So he goes to the church and lies. I am a Christian (he's not). He doesn't tell them he is an atheist now, a lie. Oh and by the way, can I teach the Children?!

I'm sorry, no offense. But that's just a teeny red flag. Like about 80 ft X 140 feet.

Sister, the condition of your heart is wonderful and admirable. No prudent Christian would give that man a chance. None.

Now if the Brother shook of that nonsense of God's not real and repented of it and turned back to the Lord...that could change. Nothing is too hard for God.

You think I want to be in your inner circle? Don't make me laugh. No prudent Christian would give me a chance? Your rudeness and close-mindedness is remarkable.
You are not listening to me. I don't spread my atheism around the place. That's not lying.

Bud, it doesn't matter which color you whitewash it. It's teaching the Children.
...in the hearing of students

Good that you made that point clear. in the hearing of students, will teach the students. So please don't pee down my back and tell me it's raining.

Ok so he doesn't want the teaching job, just to be able to correct the teacher and enlighten the students at the same time...Umm, okaaayy.

And you can not see how ludicrous this sounds? Really? Brother, on my best day this is highly suspicious. It is not raining and you know it!

I'll pray for you if you wish?

Yes, I wish to be able to correct the teacher and show the students what the Bible says because the teacher ignores the biblical evidence against eternal security. Please clarify how that is ridiculous.

It flipping helps if you preface this with a better way .
I don't believe
I am made to go to church but I don't want to.

I have doubts on your dad wanting to kill atheist.

My dad was a turd in my youth ,we didn't see eye to eye and later on I learned I was a jack ass and saw my dad as flawed I forgave him and he repented.my dad died last year.he changed .it wasn't where I wanted it but God did. That .

My dad loved us in his flawed way his bark was worse then his bite .

He said these exact words: "Well, I think that atheists should be..." [short pause and shrug] "executed. That's what the Bible tells me to believe." Doubt that if you wish but it is true. Now I do plan on telling him once I am independent. As they say on the internet, "The best place to come out is in your home, over a dinner you paid for." I am not lying at church. At home yes but only because I have to.

 

[jasonc]

You think I want to be in your inner circle? Don't make me laugh. No prudent Christian would give me a chance? Your rudeness and close-mindedness is remarkable.
You are not listening to me. I don't spread my atheism around the place. That's not lying.

Yes, I wish to be able to correct the teacher and show the students what the Bible says because the teacher ignores the biblical evidence against eternal security. Please clarify how that is ridiculous.

He said these exact words: "Well, I think that atheists should be..." [short pause and shrug] "executed. That's what the Bible tells me to believe." Doubt that if you wish but it is true. Now I do plan on telling him once I am independent. As they say on the internet, "The best place to come out is in your home, over a dinner you paid for." I am not lying at church. At home yes but only because I have to.

So he would kill you unlawfully ?
Has he tried it in the workplace ?

That's a difference.

I believe pedophiles and rapists upon conviction in a court of law should be executed .
My sister was raped twice ,once by a man in his late 30s.

Do you really think I would go out and kill him,her other rapist ?

If he is that violent waiting for adulthood wouldnt save you at all

 

[T. E. Smith]

So he would kill you unlawfully ?
Has he tried it in the workplace ?

That's a difference.

I believe pedophiles and rapists upon conviction in a court of law should be executed .
My sister was raped twice ,once by a man in his late 30s.

Do you really think I would go out and kill him,her other rapist ?

If he is that violent waiting for adulthood wouldnt save you at all

1) He works from home.
2) I am not saying I think he'd kill me. Harm me in some way, yes.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So Edward Here is some base for why I don't tell my parents I'm an atheist. My dad has openly stated that he thinks atheists should be EXECUTED. Does that mean that he'd take things into his own hands? Would he change his mind if he learned I'm an atheist? I don't know. And that's exactly why I can't say anything.

This is the fruit of Calvinism. It is what I’ve encountered when opposing them. Like I said before, with time their theology either forces them to commit intellectual suicide by shutting down the brain or they become like Calvin himself and desire to execute the opposition (they lack the power, he didn’t.) TE, your Dad is no unusual although not often so openly expressed.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I admire your compassionate heart and it's pretty apparent that you are very empathetic to his situation. I want that kind of heart!

But the Lord did teach me very clearly a few days, to not extend my trust to my inner circle without His direct approval of them. That is my witness. Believe it or don't believe it, that is your choice.

Thanks for the compliment. I don’t see the connection between having compassion or not having compassion and trust. Now don’t get me wrong, I think your following his advise absolutely great. Do so your whole life.

The Bible says some interesting things regarding compassion and trust. It says Jesus had compassion on the crowd. It also says that “he didn’t trust Himself to man because He knew what was in man.” God has compassion on people but that doesn’t mean He trusts us.
Edward “I did not make the precepts of God. I have learned some of them. Ans something smells fishy about, can I take over the teaching position after I have renounced Christ?”

Edward, I already said he doesn’t want to teach. Aren’t atheists allowed to ask questions? I will tell you that A LOT of young people raised in deeply Christian homes become atheists and those who’ve researched it found one reason is that they were not allowed to ask questions.

No sir, you can not. That's not how it works. First you believe and repent ask forgiveness and get saved. Then the sanctification and learning period begins, then a direction is given and one serves the Lord.

Jesus didn’t require that of people who asked him questions.

But you can't keep your standing with the Lord after you have confessed to renouncing your faith in God and saying, I don't believe in God.

I don’t think God is threatened. I think He has compassion on TE. The person is tired, likely, of pretending he agrees with everything taught when he doesn’t. We live in a government that allows for difference of opinion and discussion (at least on certain restricted topics.)

I'm sorry, no offense. But that's just a teeny red flag. Like about 80 ft X 140 feet.

No offense taken. But I will tell you that the god he doesn’t believe is there, isn’t there. There is a real God, He is different than the one TE has rejected.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes

T.E. Smith, many Christians don’t think about what they believe and why and what they don’t believe and why (except the brainless „someone told me.”)

So when they are challenged there is the tendency is to insult/attack the one asking the questions. Jesus wasn’t like that but some of his followers are. Please forgive them for they know not what they do.

 

[Edward]

Yes, I wish to be able to correct the teacher and show the students what the Bible says because the teacher ignores the biblical evidence against eternal security. Please clarify how that is ridiculous.

I told you twice already. Maybe you are right about the eternal security issue, but you can't correct the teacher or teach the kids when you do not believe in God.

Who does that? It's ridiculous that an thesist wants to teach Christian children about the God that he don't believe in...

You're all mixed up in your head. The position has been filled. Please come reapply if you ever get right with God. Try trusting God for once.

If you get so angry over a Christian man asking you good questions, could you even handle it if a young one stamped their foot at you and said no! ??

Well, I lied...no wait, I didn't lie but I plan to stop lying in the future....??? What is that? You should get a handle on your anger and lying. Pray about it.