Should I publicly correct my teacher?

[Edward]

1) Are you blameless? The passage obviously is referring to general conduct.
2) I do not desire to be an elder. I know of no church that allows children elders.
3) Obviously I don't rule my own house, I am a minor It would be the same way if I was a Christian...

Oh, no wonder it's like talking to a brick wall with you. You're at that age where you know everything!

Well, let me give you a an older guys experience and revelation, lol. It takes 50 years on this earth to even get a clue to what's going on and what is truth.

And you a minor? No wonder you have no work ethic showing, you have none yet! Well everything has a system of procedures and protocols (look those words up) on this earth. You want to do...(whatever), then there is way to do it correctly. You want to drive, you need to get a license first. I'm not saying your not able to drive already, but you gotta take the prescribed manner of approval and issuance or you wont be legal. You can't just say, I'm driving and you can
t make me do it the right way or you are attacking me!!
Oh grow up. Define honor for me.
Define integrity. Define respect. Define to me what is a work ethic and why you should learn to have one?

You better be scared of God, young man. You would do better to humble yourself and take on a students role for your own life, than trying to put the cart before the horse too soon.

And I apologize for speaking somewhat harshly to you because I didn't realize how young you are. So I mistook your ignorance for arrogance. (Look it up, that's no attack!!)

 

[Edward]

My three Sunday school teachers all subscribe to the doctrine of eternal security and thus argue that if someone falls away, they were never saved. They often speak of this to my classmates, some of whom as young as 10. I consider the idea very wrong, and I don't want the kids to be indoctrinated into it. Should I speak up publicly and correct the teachers? I could speak to them in private, but I'm certain that their views would not change at all, and it would still leave the children believing this false doctrine.

I understand how you feel. But it would not be an appropriate thing for you to do. Even if you are right,, ok? If you spoke up and publically corrected the Teacher, or attempted to, there would be a wrongness in that. They have a name for doing that. It is called being a Heckler.

Hold your place young man, and have total respect for all when you are in that church. There's nothing wrong with slightly differeing beliefs between members of a church. You just can't come into class and slide into the Teachers seat. You must take a students chair first. And you don't go from student chair to Teacher chair either. There are steps to be taken.

There is learning afoot young man! Avail yourself of it. I tell you with all due respect, young man....you need to set down your pride just a wee bit and understand that correcting the Teacher is not your responsibility. That is the Holy Spirit's job! Have respect for the Holy Spirit and stand down. Even if she is wrong on one point that you don't like, they can still teach you many other truths that you need to learn.

Don't heckle the Teacher! A more appropriate response from you, if you really want to help the children, is to pray for the Holy Spirit to help the teacher. The Holy Spirit will correct her.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Edward I have my age publicly available on my profile. That is... not hard to check. You bizzarely bash me for my age as if it somehow my fault I am young, but it's painfully obvious that if I were a Christian and exactly the same age as I am now, you would have no problem with me. Your bigotry is not mainly ageist, it is religious.

No wonder you have no work ethic showing, you have none yet!

Once AGAIN you make an assumption! This one ageist. Because I'm a minor, I don't work? Wrong! I do work, I have been working in retail for about a year now. I have no unexcused absences, and only two absences at all (both excused). I regularly take on shifts I am not scheduled, when requested. The managers have repeatedly told me I do a good job and am very helpful.

Once again you have given an answer before hearing and are put to shame. Pathetic. So how about you sit down.

Say goodbye to this discussion, and hello to my ignore list.

EDIT: And don't tell me you can't have known whether I work or not. You ought to have asked, before speaking as you have.

 

[jasonc]

I'm triple your age .I was in Afghanistan when you were born .

Age and experience.often we learn the hard way.i crashed with my dad as he failed me.my brother seeing I did that also did it and mentioned it at dads funeral if you got the story .I was there .I knew .my dad changed.God rebuked me on this,yes your dad is wrong but I command you to honor him.
As I got older I see my dad flaws in me and I have to pity him.i can't change my past.my dad wasn't all that bad he stayed married to my mom.my mom visits his grave often and sets flowers,I thought my father in my youth was a poor father and husband .turns out I was proven wrong .yes in his marriage as in any there were failures and the
ebbs and tides.as I have in mine.

I have step kids I warned the younger of your son will clash with you and challenge you on life .don't over protect him.i warned him about that and said when you are old and I am dead you will fully get these things.

1.your parents will fail .see them for who they are .avoid there mistakes ,honor them
2. You will make mistakes ,you if you have kids will face that as well.
3. See your dad as he is ,not for what he did to your mother .you know I don't like your dad .I am not your dad .you choose to live with him.let him be your dad if he wants .

My wife has clashed with your youngest and she also said mom I get it now until I had kids and especially jaci .I understand .


There is much a teen thinks he knows ,but doesn't

 

[T. E. Smith]

There is much a teen thinks he knows ,but doesn't

Ad hominem fallacy:

A makes a claim x, B asserts that A holds a property that is unwelcome, and hence B concludes that argument x is wrong.

I make my claim, you and Edward assert that I hold the unwelcome property of being 17 (and Edward also asserts I hold the unwelcome property of being an atheist), and hence you and Edward conclude that my claim is wrong.

 

[T. E. Smith]

I'm triple your age .I was in Afghanistan when you were born .

Age and experience.often we learn the hard way.i crashed with my dad as he failed me.my brother seeing I did that also did it and mentioned it at dads funeral if you got the story .I was there .I knew .my dad changed.God rebuked me on this,yes your dad is wrong but I command you to honor him.
As I got older I see my dad flaws in me and I have to pity him.i can't change my past.my dad wasn't all that bad he stayed married to my mom.my mom visits his grave often and sets flowers,I thought my father in my youth was a poor father and husband .turns out I was proven wrong .yes in his marriage as in any there were failures and the
ebbs and tides.as I have in mine.

I have step kids I warned the younger of your son will clash with you and challenge you on life .don't over protect him.i warned him about that and said when you are old and I am dead you will fully get these things.

1.your parents will fail .see them for who they are .avoid there mistakes ,honor them
2. You will make mistakes ,you if you have kids will face that as well.
3. See your dad as he is ,not for what he did to your mother .you know I don't like your dad .I am not your dad .you choose to live with him.let him be your dad if he wants .

My wife has clashed with your youngest and she also said mom I get it now until I had kids and especially jaci .I understand .

Thank you for your personal testimony.

 

[Edward]

Edward I have my age publicly available on my profile. That is... not hard to check. You bizzarely bash me for my age as if it somehow my fault I am young, but it's painfully obvious that if I were a Christian and exactly the same age as I am now, you would have no problem with me. Your bigotry is not mainly ageist, it is religious.

Once AGAIN you make an assumption! This one ageist. Because I'm a minor, I don't work? Wrong! I do work, I have been working in retail for about a year now. I have no unexcused absences, and only two absences at all (both excused). I regularly take on shifts I am not scheduled, when requested. The managers have repeatedly told me I do a good job and am very helpful.

Once again you have given an answer before hearing and are put to shame. Pathetic. So how about you sit down.

Say goodbye to this discussion, and hello to my ignore list.

EDIT: And don't tell me you can't have known whether I work or not. You ought to have asked, before speaking as you have.

I asked you to be transparent. You wont hardly answer any questions.

So you are developing a work ethic. That's good! Keep it up. Now add honor to that. Add integrity, add respect. Have some class little brother. Your age is not a bad thing, it is an explanatory thing. Now I understand why you think the way you do!

Did I hurt your feelings? Do you feel victimized now? Oh my gosh little brother, grow up some more. If you can't handle your end of an adult conversation here, what makes you think you could teach kids?!

Woe is me, I'm hit! I didn;t like that guys answer! Lol. Sorry little brother, no sale.

Those who would be Teachers must be themselves teachable first.

 

[jasonc]

Ad hominem fallacy:

A makes a claim x, B asserts that A holds a property that is unwelcome, and hence B concludes that argument x is wrong.

I make my claim, you and Edward assert that I hold the unwelcome property of being 17 (and Edward also asserts I hold the unwelcome property of being an atheist), and hence you and Edward conclude that my claim is wrong.

Ad hominem fallacy:

A makes a claim x, B asserts that A holds a property that is unwelcome, and hence B concludes that argument x is wrong.

I make my claim, you and Edward assert that I hold the unwelcome property of being 17 (and Edward also asserts I hold the unwelcome property of being an atheist), and hence you and Edward conclude that my claim is wrong.

No experience.

Do you think your dad just lets you post here.

You internet using isn't simply unknown to him?

My granddaughter can't use her phone without her mother knowing witch site she goes to .who she texts


I'm too old for this .I have kids live with me and had to secure phones .internet use . Your dad works from home and let's you just sit on a computer going where you want ,post your disdain openly and you claim he is a fundamentalists.
Look I have been into a cult . Sure a kid can sneak around .but a parent will not easily let it .
I did it ,but yeah if he uses his Internet at home.he can see if you are online or knows it because you post here.

As a dad I would check.whetr does he go.what does he do.

Do you correct your teachers ,your dad in public ?
No.why because they wouldn't let it .

I learned from experience.i didn't say you didn't know anything but a teen teaching others by himself won't be allowed .my church has a few teens that do help but never as elders or teachers,too young .

I am opinionated .I have that from my dad .I have openly corrected ncos,and teachers.it didn't always go well. I learned a better way after a few bumps .

Stupidly I had to . You are wanting to openly correct a teacher .i wouldn't do that to local history buffs who talk about my wife's family . I would wait until finished then state a correction with a caveat of who I am and how I know .

 

[Vinny37]

My three Sunday school teachers all subscribe to the doctrine of eternal security and thus argue that if someone falls away, they were never saved. They often speak of this to my classmates, some of whom as young as 10. I consider the idea very wrong, and I don't want the kids to be indoctrinated into it. Should I speak up publicly and correct the teachers? I could speak to them in private, but I'm certain that their views would not change at all, and it would still leave the children believing this false doctrine.

A reply to my post is that Calvinism denies that we can accept "Jesus in mortal years". I don't think that this substantially modifies my post. Rather, Calvinism urges us to accept Christ, but also says that any urging and any acceptance are based on God pushing the buttons to urge (the evangelist) and to accept (the sinner). The poster, perhaps, simply meant that, per Calvinism, our acceptance (or nonacceptance) was not in fact free freewill, even if subprograms, operated by God's will, seem to be autonomous processes within us. I hold that sovereignty has delegated sovereignty to humanity, those who alone - on this planet at least - are in his image (Imago Dei), that as C S Lewis said, we can be successful rebels against Love himself.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Do you think your dad just lets you post here.

You internet using isn't simply unknown to him?

My granddaughter can't use her phone without her mother knowing witch site she goes to .who she texts

He sees I visit christianforums.net. He does not see what I actually do there. He does not have a problem with Christian websites.

I have kids live with me and had to secure phones .internet use . Your dad works from home and let's you just sit on a computer going where you want ,post your disdain openly and you claim he is a fundamentalists.
Look I have been into a cult . Sure a kid can sneak around .but a parent will not easily let it .
I did it ,but yeah if he uses his Internet at home.he can see if you are online or knows it because you post here.

Yes I get around. He uses Disney Circle the most sophisticated parental controls available. That blog I have in my signature? That would definitely not look great on my browsing history. So I have ways to hide that.

As a dad I would check.whetr does he go.what does he do.

I don't doubt it. My Dad does not look, because he thinks he sees it all via his parental controls. I don't like this situation in the least. I write to preserve my sanity.

Do you correct your teachers ,your dad in public ?
No.why because they wouldn't let it .

I learned from experience.i didn't say you didn't know anything but a teen teaching others by himself won't be allowed .my church has a few teens that do help but never as elders or teachers,too young .

No, because they won't listen. That's the only reason. If I knew they would listen and change, I would correct.

 

[Edward]

Ad hominem fallacy:

A makes a claim x, B asserts that A holds a property that is unwelcome, and hence B concludes that argument x is wrong.

I make my claim, you and Edward assert that I hold the unwelcome property of being 17 (and Edward also asserts I hold the unwelcome property of being an atheist), and hence you and Edward conclude that my claim is wrong.

Hey! Edward did not assert that you are an atheist. You stated that you are an atheist.

Maybe you should be careful what labels you stick on yourself young man. Someone might (gasp) refer to you as such!

Why would you ask this forum if it's cool to heckle a sunday school teacher, and then play a victim card when you don't like the answers? That is...uh, decidedly uncool. No class whatsoever litttle brother!

You are darn right I see who you are. I raised two like you. Well, except their not atheists.
You need to stay in school and not interfere with church activities or teachings. And if you do not like something about that church's teachings, then you should find a different church to attend.

 

[jasonc]

He sees I visit christianforums.net. He does not see what I actually do there. He does not have a problem with Christian websites.

Yes I get around. He uses Disney Circle the most sophisticated parental controls available. That blog I have in my signature? That would definitely not look great on my browsing history. So I have ways to hide that.

I don't doubt it. My Dad does not look, because he thinks he sees it all via his parental controls. I don't like this situation in the least. I write to preserve my sanity.

No, because they won't listen. That's the only reason. If I knew they would listen and change, I would correct.

Could you honestly answer a retort by a eternal security type.?

And how does God break your will to sin ?

I know ,by letting you wallow it ,it kills you then in your sin you repent .

Been there it's called breaking . God uses death ,war and other things to sanctify us. PTSD is mine .
Drugs won't answer the vanity I see.

God can .

That's why Edward sees it that way . I have stated something on freewill and got a response by the pastor on why I said that and caveated it from an arminist is answered .because no man seeks God and desires to .God has break our wills and went into irresistible grace .I didn't want God ,he let me fail and I saw no other option but to repent . God did that .

I had no plan to serve God .God said oh but you will and worked his plan out

 

[jasonc]

Paraphrase

A man devises his next step but God ordains it

 

[T. E. Smith]

Could you honestly answer a retort by a eternal security type.?

Yes, and I have. I have read The Race Set Before Us, a book arguing for eternal security, and wrote a short paper refuting its major claims.

A man devises his next step but God ordains it

Yes, I'd know that one at once. Proverbs 16:9: "The human mind plans the way, but Yahweh directs the steps." (NRSV)

 

[T. E. Smith]

Edward did not assert that you are an atheist. You stated that you are an atheist.

You asserted that it was an unwelcome property

 

[jasonc]

Yes, and I have. I have read The Race Set Before Us, a book arguing for eternal security, and wrote a short paper refuting its major claims.

Yes, I'd know that one at once. Proverbs 16:9: "The human mind plans the way, but Yahweh directs the steps." (NRSV)

You deny God .

I said honest .I don't often quote the reformed in my responses unless it's easier

I said honest as in do you believe that God can keep you or you can purify yourself ,you simply avoided and said I read what a retort from .that may decieve the teacher but God as he would deny you as you deny him.

Even in the arminist position God doesn't walk away and say well doesn't care so that's it forever .it's a process .

Raised as a non osas type .so I ask again .you must answer honestly on How God deals with your sin ,do you believe he convicts you?

 

[jasonc]

In the doctrine of eternal security it's not the Wesleyan doctrine of sinless perfection ,but despite our failures God keeps his Word and leads you into heaven .

Only God can break our will and change us .

I'm not interested in the debate of that point just that some simply don't get that .it's never sin all I want and God won't care .if that is in your heart you never repented.its we can't be faithful and despite our ebbs and tides God will ensure you are in heaven .

In the opposite argument .
I have heard the last line by saying saints and pastors . Once you get over the limited understanding of the five points .it doesn't matter . I can find similarities in both .taken to the extreme is where it goes south

 

[T. E. Smith]

you must answer honestly on How God deals with your sin ,do you believe he convicts you?

I think that is what the Bible teaches

Wesleyan doctrine of sinless perfection

Not an accurate description: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_perfection

 

[jasonc]

I think that is what the Bible teaches

Not an accurate description: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_perfection

No,that is .you might want actually read it .I got info from a local Methodist church and my copy attended from my church .section on it .

And what the Bible says isn't what saves you .it's what you must believe .

You deny God .

A jw can answer that .will a jw be in heaven nope .

One can quote the Bible all day and still see hell.
Satan knows the Bible too.he was there when it was written and quotes it to Jesus .

I asked for an honest answer .that isn't honest as you don't believe the Bible is even legit .

You deny who Jesus is ,whether or not he exists as the Son
What he said .

That isn't honest

What is in the heart of man Will come out .you say you care that christians ,of which you deny you are,that should know the Bible .

This isn't honest .

I know a man who denies God but honestly said .

When I'm near death having health issues I believe ,as soon as it goes away it's back to whoring .

His words .I see no dishonesty there .

Your thread implies.
1.the elders and pastor don't know you deny Jesus .
2. They hear you say the right things
3.despite that you should be allowed to correct doctrinal error .

Here we see .

A profile that says I deny Jesus .

Statements of the such contrary to the word .

You can't be believed as you admitted hiding your atheism in church.here you don't .

Either you believe or you don't .

Why care if you hate church that much ?

 

[D-D-W]

Not an accurate description: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_perfection

The Wesleyan doctrine of "sinless perfection" is widely misunderstood, even among Methodist/pentecostal/Church of Nazarene seminarians. I am not sure I understand it either. So Do not be surprised if the Wiki article got it wrong too.

Frankly, it is one plank of Wesleyanism that I pretty much do not agree with. But I cannot say that with complete certainly since I am still not entirely clear on it.