Should Tookie Die? December 13 deadline.

[bibleberean]

God instituted the death penalty...

I am not saying it cannot be abused but it certainly is something God Himself established.

Genesis 9:5-6 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Exodus 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.

 

[bibleberean]

The commandment is thou shalt not murder, otherwise King David would be guilty of a sin when killing Goliath. When the government kills a murderer they are not committing a violation of the law, they are governing as elected.

The bible backs this up.

Again, I am not saying there are not abuses of the death penalty but God did institute it and gave governments the power to enforce it.

Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

 

[bibleberean]

“After studying the evidence, searching the history, listening to the arguments and wrestling with the profound consequences, I could find no justification for granting clemency,†Schwarzenegger said, less than 12 hours before the execution. “The facts do not justify overturning the jury’s verdict or the decisions of the courts in this case.â€Â

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger

 

[SputnikBoy]

Exodus 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.

He that profaneth the Sabbath shall be surely put to death (Numbers 15:32-36).

 

[bibleberean]

Exodus 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.

He that profaneth the Sabbath shall be surely put to death (Numbers 15:32-36).

Absolutely!

If you were a Jew living in Israel and profaned the Sabbath you would be put to death.

But we aren't Jews and we don't live in Israel.

Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.


Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Psalms 147:19-20 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

Yep! :D

 

[guibox]

I'm wondering if there is any truth to his protests of innocence. If he is indeed a changed man as is claimed, why would he lie? Has he been protesting his innocence for the last 20 years or was this a new thing as the doomsday gets closer?

Either way, it sounds like 'Ahnold' is sending him to the gallows.

 

[bibleberean]

I'm wondering if there is any truth to his protests of innocence. If he is indeed a changed man as is claimed, why would he lie? Has he been protesting his innocence for the last 20 years or was this a new thing as the doomsday gets closer?

Either way, it sounds like 'Ahnold' is sending him to the gallows.

Williams has admitted that he partook in killings as the leader of the Crips but that he is not guilty for these particular crimes.

This is what the Govenor maintains about his guilt.

A statement released from the California governor’s office on Monday emphasized Williams’ guilty charge.

“The possible irregularities in Williams’ trial have been thoroughly and carefully reviewed by the courts, and there is no reason to disturb the judicial decisions that uphold the jury’s decisions that he is guilty of these four murders and should pay with his life,†the statement said.

One thing is certain he was tried and convicted by a jury.

It isn't up to me if he dies or not and quite frankly I am glad it isn't.

Anyway, I pray he throws himself on God's mercy and accepts the pardon God has offered through Jesus Christ.

 

[BJGrolle]

Anyway, I pray he throws himself on God's mercy and accepts the pardon God has offered through Jesus Christ.

Amen to that. Let us pray that this man has truly repented.

 

[AHIMSA]

Capital punishment is archaic. Jesus called us to love those who hate us, to do good to those who do us harm. How can you love a person and kill them at the same time?

"He who is forgiven little forgives little"

Didn't God show us such tremendous grace? Aren't we supposed to do the same?

 

[bibleberean]

Murdering people is not to be taken lightly.

Jesus came and allowed Himself to take the death penalty which we deserve and He didn't upon Himself.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Jesus established the death penalty.

Genesis 9:5-6 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Exodus 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.

Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

When Jesus comes back he will execute wrath upon the ungodly.

God loves us and is merciful. He is also just and there needs to be a penalty for crimes committed in this life.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

God instituted the death penalty...

I am not saying it cannot be abused but it certainly is something God Himself established.

Genesis 9:5-6 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Exodus 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.

Borrowing from another thread;

Eating pig is a sin for Jews.

Not for the church.

God has the last word.

So then why does this statement that was given to the Jewish people and then fulfilled and changed in Jesus not fall into the same category?

We cannot have it both ways.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

I'm wondering if there is any truth to his protests of innocence. If he is indeed a changed man as is claimed, why would he lie? Has he been protesting his innocence for the last 20 years or was this a new thing as the doomsday gets closer?

Either way, it sounds like 'Ahnold' is sending him to the gallows.

Exactly. Just because some people decided he did these crimes does not mean he actually did. Many have been found innocent long after they were murdered by the government.

And the person who takes a paycheck to go in and dispense death is no better then the person who did the original crimes. Nothing better then a paid assassin.

 

[bibleberean]

And the person who takes a paycheck to go in and dispense death is no better then the person who did the original crimes. Nothing better then a paid assassin.

That is not what the bible says...

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Romans 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Unless my bible is wrong if a man is lawfully convicted of murder then the person that does the execution is a minister of God...

 

[SputnikBoy]

Do you ever think for yourself, BB? I find it most disconcerting that you come up with a Bible text for every point of view. For every Bible text you present, someone could well produce one to counter it. The most important thing that God did for us was to give us a brain with which we can reason with, form opinions, make self choices and informed decisions.

 

[pfilmtech]

I think it is a fallacy to equate our justice with divine justice.

 

[bibleberean]

Do you ever think for yourself, BB? I find it most disconcerting that you come up with a Bible text for every point of view. For every Bible text you present, someone could well produce one to counter it. The most important thing that God did for us was to give us a brain with which we can reason with, form opinions, make self choices and informed decisions.

The bible is the Christians final authority for faith and practice.

I don't know why that is so disconcerting in a "Christian forum". :D

 

[greyfeather]

I thought maybe Arnold might give Tookie life without parole instead of the death penalty. Since Arnold said Hitler was a very smart man and that he admired him. Anyway Tookie will die and if he has repented , confessed his sin to God and asked for forgiveness and excepted Jesus into his heart he will have everlasting life.


Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.

 

[SputnikBoy]

I think it is a fallacy to equate our justice with divine justice.

That's right. I'm not sure where you stand on this issue but I find it quite disconcerting that Christians claim to support the death penalty because they say that God approves of it. I wouldn't agree with them but I'd have more respect for them if they left God out of this issue and just said "the guy should fry because that's the way I feel about it." Some Christians falsely use God to support many of their own inner feelings.

Sometimes we need to put the Bible down and use our God-given brains.

 

[bibleberean]

In Acts 25:11 the apostle Paul says, "For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar." Paul admitted that some things were "worthy of death," and that he was willing to "die" if he was guilty of such an offense. If the death penalty is not for today, then why didn't Paul tell us?

The above is From James Melton's "Why I support the Death Penalty"

I trust the bible not man...

Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die. Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death." (Num. 35:30-31)


"So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it. Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel." ( vs. 33-34)

 

[SputnikBoy]

Sheesh ...that doesn't mean that WE have to kill people, BB.