Should women teach in the church?

[Jethro Bodine]

Okay, I'm done. Your mind is closed so there is no pint in continuing your false male superiority.

Yes, you will never convince me that the timeless plain words of Paul are to be rejected.

Men, exclusively, being called to the office of pastor-teacher is not false male superiority. It is God ordained male superiority established at creation. Don't confuse that male superiority with whatever imagined male superiority is indeed false.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female—for all of you are one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

If this means what you think it means, why do churches still have two bathrooms, and women birth babies while men do not? Don't blow this off. I'm being serious. You have to realize that Paul is not referring to an erasure of the distinction of male and female in all things. Being in Christ is where no distinction between male and female is recognized.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So according to you, Paul was writing LAW: no braids, no gold, no pearls, no expensive clothing, learn quietly with all submissiveness. (Even though he wrote extensively that the law is spiritual death)

Who told you there are no laws now???

And who told you having a law is spiritual death???

 

[Jethro Bodine]

He wrote I (no mention of God here!) do not permit... Not everything Paul wrote is a command of God. 1 Corinthians 7:10-12, "To the married I give this command—not I, but the Lord—a wife should not divorce a husband (but if she does, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband), and a husband should not divorce his wife. To the rest I say—I, not the Lord—if a brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is happy to live with him, he should not divorce her."

Don't you realize that you're literally saying the Apostle Paul was giving his opinion and that his opinion is wrong?

 

[Cooper]

Don't you realize that you're literally saying the Apostle Paul was giving his opinion and that his opinion is wrong?

We are getting tired of all this and soon there won't be a forum, because people will just leave.
.

 

[jerry63935]

soon there won't be a forum

this is exactly why a forum buzzes with post .. when is last time you seen a post on grace ? you seldom do because they had rather post about junk like this. yes i admit some of it is bit much . i see a lot opinion but no scripture to support the claim. when it comes to women preaching we only have scriptures paul wrote along with when the 12 apostles was chosen and the 7 appointed over the business in acts 7 men not women . i have yet to see one scripture where women are called to preach , solo scripture

 

[Aussie]

Yes, you will never convince me that the timeless plain words of Paul are to be rejected.

Men, exclusively, being called to the office of pastor-teacher is not false male superiority. It is God ordained male superiority established at creation. Don't confuse that male superiority with whatever imagined male superiority is indeed false.

"Timeless plain words of Paul" as interpreted by Jethro!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"Timeless plain words of Paul" as interpreted by Jethro!

I'm not even interpreting it. I'm just saying what it plainly says, lol.

 

[JLB]

this is commentary not solo scripture . why would paul write using the word man HE His own house ..if you can show me scripture other wise. then i will change my position

Yes I stated this is the way I see it.

 

[JLB]

Woman can teach, preach, evangelize, and prophesy. What they can't do is hold the office of pastor. That authority is given to men alone for the reasons Paul cites. Neither of which have anything to do with the shifting norms of society but are founded in creation itself.

I agree with most of this and probably all of it.

You made the point of “founded in creation itself”, which of course is the truth.

However, there is a balance to this, just as we flip a coin and it lands on heads… knowing that the other side of the coin is tails.

If we only look at the heads, then we only see half of the truth of the coin.


That being said, I agree with you that women are out of place, usurping the ”authority“ of the head of a Church as Pastor, however the man and woman are one, and share in the authority of the household, with the man being the head of the women, yet they both have their God given place of authority.

as it s written, you shall honor your father and mother that your days may be long in the land your God is giving you.

So we see in the household both the father and mother have a place of authority, likewise in the church both the “one” (male and female) expression of Pastor have authority in a church, with the man being the head, and the woman as his helpmate, teaching the women and children.

Also, if she has a “word” or “prophecy”, or a “tongue and interpretation”, she should be allowed to give for the edification of the congregation as the co-pastor.

But not to teach “over” a man.


I think you will agree, for the most part.




JLB

 

[Hopeful]

We are getting tired of all this and soon there won't be a forum, because people will just leave.
.

Don't give up hope that minds can be changed.
Keep using the scriptures when making opinions on line.

 

[electedbyhim]

Question:

How are woman equal if they are the weaker vessel?

1Peter 3:7 You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with a weaker vessel, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.

I

 

[jerry63935]

We are getting tired of all this and soon there won't be a forum, because people will just leave.
.

it is getting rather boring and old

 

[Cooper]

Women
20 Bible Passages
Each passage or set of passages is introduced by a red-lettered introduction pointing out its relevance to women and girls speaking to, teaching, preaching to, leading, or having authority over men in a worship service or elsewhere:

Women includes “the whole church,” “everyone,” “brothers and sisters,” “each of you,” and “all.”

Paul said, when “brothers and sisters … come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. …” (1 Cor 14:26)

Paul said “you can all (all includes women) prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.” (1 Cor 14:31; see also 14:23-25, 26, 39-40; 11:5; 1:1-2)

Paul said, to women and men, “… be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord ….” (Ephesians 5:18-20)

Paul said, to women and men, “… teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God ….” (Colossians 3:16; see also Luke 24:44; Colossians 1:28)

Women and men told to teach everyone, everywhere (not just their own sex and not just outside an assembly — the Great Commission):

Jesus said “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost ….” (Matt 28:19)

The Apostle Peter said, to women and men, “Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms. If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. ….” (1 Peter 4:10-11)

Example of a woman praying, prophesying, preaching, and teaching before a mixed assembly including men in the temple:

Paul said, to women and men, “I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy … so that the church may be edified.” (1 Cor 14:5) Speaking in tongues included prayer. (e.g., 1 Cor 14:14 (“For if I pray in a tongue ….”)) (see also 1 Cor 1:1-2; 11:5; 14:23, 26, 39-40)

Example of a woman having authority over men and teaching an assembly of men about scripture and God’s message:

The King’s men came to prophet Huldah for instruction and prophecy about scripture: “When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law, he tore his robes. He gave these orders to Hilkiah the priest [and others of his men]: ‘Go and inquire of the Lord … about what is written in this book that has been found. ….’ [They] went to speak to the prophet Huldah, …. She said to them, ‘This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: Tell the man who sent you to me … [teaching of prophecy given, speaking for God].” (2 Kings 22:11-20; 2 Chronicles 34:14-33)

Example of women speaking, praying, and prophesying in the churches, in mixed assemblies:

Paul said, “I praise you …. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head

Example of a woman teaching a knowledgeable man about the way of God in a mixed assembly:

“Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.” (Acts 18:24-26)

Deborah was the ruler of Israel (ruler of men and women) and a prophet, teaching, leading, and “having authority” over assembled men:

“Deborah, a prophet, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading Israel at that time. … She sent for Barak … and said to him, “The Lord, the God of Israel, commands you: ‘Go, take with you ten thousand men of Naphtali and Zebulun and lead them up to Mount Tabor. I will lead Sisera, the commander of Jabin’s army, with his chariots and his troops to the Kishon River and give him into your hands.’” Barak said to her, “If you go with me, I will go; but if you don’t go with me, I won’t go.” “Certainly I will go with you,” said Deborah. “But because of the course you are taking, the honor will not be yours, for the Lord will deliver Sisera into the hands of a woman.” So Deborah went with Barak to Kedesh. There Barak summoned Zebulun and Naphtali, and ten thousand men went up under his command. Deborah also went up with him. … Then Deborah said to Barak, “Go! This is the day the Lord has given Sisera into your hands. Has not the Lord gone ahead of you?” So Barak went down Mount Tabor, with ten thousand men following him. At Barak’s advance, the Lord routed Sisera and all his chariots and army by the sword, and Sisera got down from his chariot and fled on foot.” (Judges 4-5)

Female prophets include Anna, who prophesied in the Temple to men (Luke 2:36-38), Deborah (Judges 4-5), Philips’ daughters (Acts 21:8-9), Miriam (Exodus 15:20), Noadiah (Neh 6:14), and many others (e.g., Isaiah 8:3; Acts 2:17-18; 1 Cor 11:5; 1 Cor 14:1-39).

Husbands are to submit to wives, just like wives are to submit to husbands (it is a two-way street), and husband’s submission includes loving his wife as himself, becoming united and being one flesh, and giving himself up for her:

“Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.” (Ephesians 5:21)

As to sexual relations, The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. (1Co 7:4 KJV)

Both men and women are to prophesy in the last days:

(20) Peter said “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.”

(Acts 2:17-18 (see Joel 2:28-29))

More Passages on equal rights.

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal 3:28 KJV)

The first evangalist was the woman at the well.
And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her? The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men, Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ? Then they went out of the city, and came unto him. (Joh 4:27-30 KJV)

Abigail spoke to and taught David about needless bloodshed and God’s will for David, and, having been sent by God to David, having authority over him. (1 Samuel 25:14-35)

“I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people, including me.” (Romans 16:1-2; see also 1 Tim 3:11)

“Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.” (Romans 16:7)

God orders Abraham to “listen to” — harken unto — “whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” (Genesis 21:12)

Women praying in a mixed assembly: “These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty. (Act 1:14-15 KJV)

More here

20 Scripture Passages Telling Women to Speak, Teach, Lead, and Have Authority Over Men, in the Assembly and Elsewhere

This article describes and quotes 20 Bible passages telling women to speak to, teach, preach to, lead, and have authority over men, in an assembly and elsewhere. Many, if not all, of the passages …

authentictheology.com

.

 

[WIP]

What I mean by "imposing authority" is to seize the spiritual office of pastor/teacher. Women ain't called to that. So when a woman does that she is imposing her authority on the church that she does not have. And Paul says she doesn't have that authority by reason of creation, and the fall. It has nothing to do with changeable cultural norms or anything else that would cause Paul's instruction to not be valid today. It has everything to do with man being made head of woman, and that the woman was deceived by satan, not the man.

What if a man, being the head, affords her the authority?

 

[WIP]

Preaching is heralding/proclaiming the good news. (Which reminds me, isn't it time to start a Christmas thread?)

Pastors aren't evangelists, unless they have also been called to that office as well. You don't have to be a pastor to hold the office of evangelist. And EVERYBODY can evangelize. But the office of evangelist is a special calling to evangelism. It's a spiritual office. Women can be evangelists. What women can not be is a pastor-teacher, by reason of creation. A reason that can never change. Even in our woke society, lol.

Isn't proclaiming the good news part of evangelizing?

 

[WIP]

I'm open to God using you to change my mind that women can be evangelists. Right off the top of my head I can't think of a woman evangelist. I know of women who have evangelized, but I really can't think of a woman who holds and walks in an official office of evangelist.

If one evangelizes, isn't said person an evangelist?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If we only look at the heads, then we only see half of the truth of the coin.

But for me, heads is the only half of the truth I need, if you know what I mean, lol.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That being said, I agree with you that women are out of place, usurping the ”authority“ of the head of a Church as Pastor, however the man and woman are one, and share in the authority of the household, with the man being the head of the women, yet they both have their God given place of authority.

as it s written, you shall honor your father and mother that your days may be long in the land your God is giving you.

So we see in the household both the father and mother have a place of authority, likewise in the church both the “one” (male and female) expression of Pastor have authority in a church, with the man being the head, and the woman as his helpmate, teaching the women and children.

While all true, I think it inappropriate to call her a pastor. I don't think the office of pastor is defined as one who has authority over women and children alone. She is simply a teacher of the women and children, not a pastor.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Also, if she has a “word” or “prophecy”, or a “tongue and interpretation”, she should be allowed to give for the edification of the congregation as the co-pastor.

I agree (but not with the label of 'pastor', or 'co-pastor').
As long as she doesn't launch into some obnoxious, authoritative, corrective 'I'm going to tell you how it really is' rant she can, in an orderly and fitting way, prophesize, speak in a tongue/interpret, or just share. Just like the rest of us.