Should women teach in the church?

[electedbyHim]

Acts 2:18, "Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy."

Acts 5:14, "Nevertheless, more and more men and women believed in the Lord and were added to their number."

Acts 8:12, "But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women."

Acts 17:4, "Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and quite a few prominent women."

Romans 16:12, "Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, those women who work hard in the Lord. Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has worked very hard in the Lord."

Philippians 4:3, "Yes, and I ask you, my true companion, help these women since they have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my co-workers, whose names are in the book of life."

Quite obviously, a lot changed after the Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out on both men and women. And this was in a society when women were subservient to me, being considered little more than slaves.

How is any of those verses related to teaching/Pastoring or a leadership roll. Not even close.

 

[electedbyHim]

The command not to eat of the tree was spoken to Adam, not Eve. He disobeyed God's spoken command and brought sin into the world.

Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

Romans 5:16, "Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification."

1 Corinthians 15:21, "For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man."

You need to read your Bible more carefully. Adam was responsible for sin and death coming into the world, not Eve.

BTW, I have been married for 53 years. My wife and are in harmony; neither one is subject to the other.

Adam was responsible being the head of Eve, but he was not deceived, Eve was.

1Timothy 2:14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into trespass.

Woman are subjected to man as a result of her choice.

Genesis 3:16 To the woman He said, “I will greatly multiply Your pain and conception, In pain you will bear children; Your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you.

 

[Cooper]

You're begging the question. If God has ordained how his Church is to function, then it isn't discrimination if he says women aren't to exercise authority over men or teach men in church, anymore than it is discrimination that he has ordained that a husband is the spiritual head of the house and his wife is to be in submission to him.

Are we discussing personal relationships with Christ being the head of the church, and the man the head of the woman etc? If so there is nothing to debate. It is crystal clear.

Or are we discussing the role of women in the church which is a different subject and Jabo kindly posted some scriptures on the role of women in the church?

Acts 2:18, "Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy."

Romans 16:12, "Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, those women who work hard in the Lord. Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has worked very hard in the Lord."

Philippians 4:3, "Yes, and I ask you, my true companion, help these women since they have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my co-workers, whose names are in the book of life."

They are different subjects.
1) Yes, Christ is the head of the church.

2) Within the church men and women are co-workers.
.

 

[jaybo]

Again, with the straw man. If the Bible says that women are not to exercise authority over men or teach men in the assembled church, then that is simply that.


I have no problem, other than your continual ignoring of context, which makes such use of a passage pointless.

I am under grace, not under law. I'm thankful that I don't live in the 1st Century and that in today's society, women are regarded as God intended: as equals and partners with men.

BTW, why are you under the law? Galatians 5:1, "For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be subject again to the yoke of slavery."

 

[jaybo]

Are we discussing personal relationships with Christ being the head of the church, and the man the head of the woman etc? If so there is nothing to debate. It is crystal clear.

Or are we discussing the role of women in the church which is a different subject and Jabo kindly posted some scriptures on the role of women in the church?

Acts 2:18, "Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy."

Romans 16:12, "Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, those women who work hard in the Lord. Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has worked very hard in the Lord."

Philippians 4:3, "Yes, and I ask you, my true companion, help these women since they have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my co-workers, whose names are in the book of life."

They are different subjects.
1) Yes, Christ is the head of the church.

2) Within the church men and women are co-workers.
.

Great post, again! I feel sorry for those who cannot understand the true relationship of men and women in Christ!

 

[OzSpen]

A woman cannot be a husband of one wife 1 Timothy 3:2

Can a woman be a woman of one man, which is just as valid a translation?

Oz

 

[electedbyHim]

Can a woman be a woman of one man, which is just as valid a translation?

Oz

That is not what the text says, so not valid.

Qualifications for Overseers​

1Ti 3:1 It is a trustworthy saying: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a good work.

1Ti 3:2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

1Ti 3:3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but considerate, peaceable, free from the love of money;

1Ti 3:4 leading his own household well, having his children in submission with all dignity

1Ti 3:5 (but if a man does not know how to lead his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),

1Ti 3:6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation of the devil.


Perhaps the Bible is wrong, or there is some hidden meaning in there. No matter how one spins it, the Qualifications are for men only. But people keep trying to make it say what it does not say.

 

[Free]

Are we discussing personal relationships with Christ being the head of the church, and the man the head of the woman etc? If so there is nothing to debate. It is crystal clear.

Or are we discussing the role of women in the church which is a different subject and Jabo kindly posted some scriptures on the role of women in the church?

Acts 2:18, "Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy."

Romans 16:12, "Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, those women who work hard in the Lord. Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has worked very hard in the Lord."

Philippians 4:3, "Yes, and I ask you, my true companion, help these women since they have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my co-workers, whose names are in the book of life."

They are different subjects.
1) Yes, Christ is the head of the church.

2) Within the church men and women are co-workers.
.

None of that actually addresses my argument. You have taken those verses out context and are still under the false assumption that this is about equality, rather than God-ordained functioning of the Church.

Some other things to keep in mind: First, we have clear verses regarding elders/overseers, that they are to "be the husband of one wife" (1 Tim 3:2; Titus 1:6). Notice that that contrasts with a requirement for enrollment of widows--"having been the wife of one husband" (1 Tim 5:9). Second, we have several passages showing the headship of a man over his wife (Gen 3:6; 1 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:22-24; Col 3:18; Titus 2:5; 1 Pet 3:1, 5-6). Again, it is rooted in the sin of Eve. Third, it would be exceedingly odd to argue for male headship in the home, but then ignore it in regards to the assembled church. This is noted in 1 Cor 14:34-35, where Paul says that "women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission." While there is some disagreement as to what Paul means, we know he permits women to pray and prophesy (1 Cor 11:5), and likely to speak to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, but here he says there is to be submission. Fourth, something that is glaringly obvious, is that no apostles were women.

 

[Free]

Great post, again! I feel sorry for those who cannot understand the true relationship of men and women in Christ!

I fully understand. But you are ignoring God-ordained functioning of his Church, and by ignoring context, falsely making this an issue of equality.

 

[Cooper]

None of that actually addresses my argument. You have taken those verses out context and are still under the false assumption that this is about equality, rather than God-ordained functioning of the Church.

Some other things to keep in mind: First, we have clear verses regarding elders/overseers, that they are to "be the husband of one wife" (1 Tim 3:2; Titus 1:6). Notice that that contrasts with a requirement for enrollment of widows--"having been the wife of one husband" (1 Tim 5:9). Second, we have several passages showing the headship of a man over his wife (Gen 3:6; 1 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:22-24; Col 3:18; Titus 2:5; 1 Pet 3:1, 5-6). Again, it is rooted in the sin of Eve. Third, it would be exceedingly odd to argue for male headship in the home, but then ignore it in regards to the assembled church. This is noted in 1 Cor 14:34-35, where Paul says that "women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission." While there is some disagreement as to what Paul means, we know he permits women to pray and prophesy (1 Cor 11:5), and likely to speak to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, but here he says there is to be submission. Fourth, something that is glaringly obvious, is that no apostles were women.

You are mixing and matching, taking scriptures out of context, and making an issue where none exists. Please stop it.
.

 

[n2thelight]

Unless the Bible itself says otherwise:

1Ti 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. (ESV)

This is in the context of corporate worship, of church, and is speaking of spiritual authority.

Acts 2:17 " `And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, `I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"

 

[n2thelight]

I Timothy 2:11 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection."

Many people take this verse to far, for it is important that both men and woman sit and learn in silence and be in subjection to those in authority that are doing the teaching. The subject that we are talking about here is "learning" from the Word of God. When God's Word is being taught anywhere, there should be respect for the Word, and those doing the teaching. When you are in a church service and there is talking and moving around that distract others, then knowledge is going forth, and people are being robbed from what they came to hear. This is why there should be silence within the service, and every thing must be done with order and respect for the house of God.

There is nothing that anyone has to say in a service, that is more important than what God's Word has to say. If you think that your words are more important, than leave for you are missing the truth anyhow, and you are disturbing those around you.

I Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

Many preachers use this verse to come down hard on the women in their church, and keep them all tied up. Just as the woman is to stay in her place, so a man and their children are to stay in their place also. The word "suffer" as used here is written because of what Paul was doing prior to his conversion. Paul was going into churches and dragging women out into the streets, stripping them and beating them even to their death. It didn't matter to Paul prior to his conversion or any of those ordered by the high priest what they did with the ladies that would preach the Word of God. Paul knew the suffering that anyone that taught the Word of God would receive at the hands of the Kenite priests and religious leaders, and he did not desire that to come on the Christian ladies of the church. This was a dangerous time to teach the Word of God, and Paul's intent was that the men should take the stand, have the backbone and preach the Word with all the risks that were present.

Paul knew those risks to those that he taught, for he carried the letter from the high priests, those sons of Satan, that had no respect for women in any manner. In fact, he was carrying the letter when he was on that road to Damascus to do just this to the men and women that were preaching and teaching God's Word. It was very embarrassing to the ladies, and even caused many of their deaths. Paul is now saying here that "I give you the liberty and the authority to not do it, to not teach and preach, and cause you to be placed is such danger.

There were women prophets, which is to say teachers in Paul's day and this upsets some of the men folk. Those that take this verse center on the word "not", and skip over the work "suffer", and they continue in their clouds of confusion and bigotry, for it makes them feel very manly to wheel their force over women, and in many cases the women have more knowledge and understanding than the men folk that are over them.

Paul was trying to protect all woman from the kind of treatment that was expected in those days to be give any one that preached or taught. As far as silence goes in the church, no matter who is speaking during a church service, no man woman or child should be allowed to speak and carry on when another is teaching the Word. Paul gave the woman the liberty to keep still and not teach if she did not want to, for this sake.

I Timothy 2:13 "For Adam was first formed, then Eve;"

This is true that man was formed first from the dust of the earth, and a man should be in the role of a man, and a woman should be in the role of the woman. and a man is to the family as Christ is to His church. Friend, I do not know to many families where the man is as Christ was for his wife and children. Christ gave everything that he had for His bride and wife. Jesus Christ put his children first in everything even His very Life.

Today the husbands and the preachers like to play the role of the man and wheel their authority over their little woman, but they refuse to take on the other responsibilities of the man, which in part changes the entire relationship that Paul is teaching here. A Christian wife should not be in total spiritual subjection to a non-Christian husband. It just won't work in God's Word.

1timothy2

www.theseason.org

 

[electedbyHim]

I Timothy 2:11 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection."

Many people take this verse to far, for it is important that both men and woman sit and learn in silence and be in subjection to those in authority that are doing the teaching. The subject that we are talking about here is "learning" from the Word of God. When God's Word is being taught anywhere, there should be respect for the Word, and those doing the teaching. When you are in a church service and there is talking and moving around that distract others, then knowledge is going forth, and people are being robbed from what they came to hear. This is why there should be silence within the service, and every thing must be done with order and respect for the house of God.

There is nothing that anyone has to say in a service, that is more important than what God's Word has to say. If you think that your words are more important, than leave for you are missing the truth anyhow, and you are disturbing those around you.

I Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

Many preachers use this verse to come down hard on the women in their church, and keep them all tied up. Just as the woman is to stay in her place, so a man and their children are to stay in their place also. The word "suffer" as used here is written because of what Paul was doing prior to his conversion. Paul was going into churches and dragging women out into the streets, stripping them and beating them even to their death. It didn't matter to Paul prior to his conversion or any of those ordered by the high priest what they did with the ladies that would preach the Word of God. Paul knew the suffering that anyone that taught the Word of God would receive at the hands of the Kenite priests and religious leaders, and he did not desire that to come on the Christian ladies of the church. This was a dangerous time to teach the Word of God, and Paul's intent was that the men should take the stand, have the backbone and preach the Word with all the risks that were present.

Paul knew those risks to those that he taught, for he carried the letter from the high priests, those sons of Satan, that had no respect for women in any manner. In fact, he was carrying the letter when he was on that road to Damascus to do just this to the men and women that were preaching and teaching God's Word. It was very embarrassing to the ladies, and even caused many of their deaths. Paul is now saying here that "I give you the liberty and the authority to not do it, to not teach and preach, and cause you to be placed is such danger.

There were women prophets, which is to say teachers in Paul's day and this upsets some of the men folk. Those that take this verse center on the word "not", and skip over the work "suffer", and they continue in their clouds of confusion and bigotry, for it makes them feel very manly to wheel their force over women, and in many cases the women have more knowledge and understanding than the men folk that are over them.

Paul was trying to protect all woman from the kind of treatment that was expected in those days to be give any one that preached or taught. As far as silence goes in the church, no matter who is speaking during a church service, no man woman or child should be allowed to speak and carry on when another is teaching the Word. Paul gave the woman the liberty to keep still and not teach if she did not want to, for this sake.

I Timothy 2:13 "For Adam was first formed, then Eve;"

This is true that man was formed first from the dust of the earth, and a man should be in the role of a man, and a woman should be in the role of the woman. and a man is to the family as Christ is to His church. Friend, I do not know to many families where the man is as Christ was for his wife and children. Christ gave everything that he had for His bride and wife. Jesus Christ put his children first in everything even His very Life.

Today the husbands and the preachers like to play the role of the man and wheel their authority over their little woman, but they refuse to take on the other responsibilities of the man, which in part changes the entire relationship that Paul is teaching here. A Christian wife should not be in total spiritual subjection to a non-Christian husband. It just won't work in God's Word.

1timothy2

www.theseason.org

I Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

This is wrong teaching on the word suffer.

1Timithoy 2:12 R1But I do not allowG2010 a womanG1135 to teachG1321 orG3761 exerciseG831 authorityG831 overG831 a manG435, but to remainG1510 quietG2271.

G2010
ἐπιτρέπω
epitrepō; from 1909 and the same as 5157; to allow, permit: — allow(2), allowed(2), gave {{them}} permission(2), given {{him}} permission(1), granted permission(1), permit(4), permits(2), permitted(4).

 

[Free]

You are mixing and matching, taking scriptures out of context, and making an issue where none exists. Please stop it.
.

I am not the one mixing and matching and taking things out of context. Why didn’t you address my four points? Three of you have just ignored them so far.

The issue is of God-given authority within the assembled church, not equality of genders, but none of you has posted a single verse to address that actual issue. All your verses either have nothing to do with women teaching men in church or nothing to with women exercising authority over men in church. How you can’t see the difference, who knows. Even amongst men there are different levels of God-given authority within the church, but that does not mean they are not all equal.

 

[Free]

Acts 2:17 " `And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, `I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"

But this has nothing to do with the issue being talked about. It does nothing to address whether women can teach men in the assembled church or if they can exercise authority over men within the assembled church.

 

[Cooper]

I am not the one mixing and matching and taking things out of context. Why didn’t you address my four points? Three of you have just ignored them so far.

The issue is of God-given authority within the assembled church, not equality of genders, but none of you has posted a single verse to address that actual issue. All your verses either have nothing to do with women teaching men in church or nothing to with women exercising authority over men in church. How you can’t see the difference, who knows. Even amongst men there are different levels of God-given authority within the church, but that does not mean they are not all equal.

Here.

25 Bible Verses About Women Teachers (ESV) - RANKED

This is a hand-curated and ranked list of the most relevant Bible verses about Women Teachers (ESV). Verses are ranked by number of votes.

reformedwiki.com

Now give it a rest. Please.
.

 

[jaybo]

Can a woman be a woman of one man, which is just as valid a translation?

Oz

Your "translation" is confusing, i.e., not valid.

Here is the NET translator's note on 1 Timothy 3:2, " Or “a man married only once,” “devoted solely to his wife” (see 1 Tim 3:12; 5:9; Titus 1:6). The meaning of this phrase is disputed. It is frequently understood to refer to the marital status of the church leader, excluding from leadership those who are (1) unmarried, (2) polygamous, (3) divorced, or (4) remarried after being widowed. A different interpretation is reflected in the NEB’s translation “faithful to his one wife.

 

[jaybo]

I am not the one mixing and matching and taking things out of context. Why didn’t you address my four points? Three of you have just ignored them so far.

The issue is of God-given authority within the assembled church, not equality of genders, but none of you has posted a single verse to address that actual issue. All your verses either have nothing to do with women teaching men in church or nothing to with women exercising authority over men in church. How you can’t see the difference, who knows. Even amongst men there are different levels of God-given authority within the church, but that does not mean they are not all equal.

Why do you have a problem with women performing any and all roles in the church? Are you creating a new version of the law, i.e., because of something Paul wrote stwo thousand years ago in a time and society that is very, very different than ours?

Times have changed!!! Women in modern Western societies are as capable as men in terms of communicating God's truths. Period!

You are either governed by the law -- written instructions about how to behave -- or you're governed by the Holy Spirit, who was given to guide us internally into the truth. You are clearly trapped into interpreting what Paul wrote as being a binding law on how Christians are to behave today.

Do you really think that Jesus would agree with your attitude? I suggest that you read the story of Jesus and the Samaritan woman. He revealed clearly but gently to her that He was the Messiah, even though it was strictly taboo for a Jewish man to even speak to a Samaritan woman. He revealed to her that He was God's Messiah and she went and told others what had happened. With your attitude they both violated the prevailing custom of the day: He, a man, even talking to the woman, was heresy!

John 4:7-9, " A Samaritan woman came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give me some water to drink.” (For his disciples had gone off into the town to buy supplies. So the Samaritan woman said to him, “How can you—a Jew—ask me, a Samaritan woman, for water to drink?” (For Jews use nothing in common with Samaritans.)

John 4:25-30, "The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (the one called Christ); “whenever he comes, he will tell us everything.” Jesus said to her, “I, the one speaking to you, am he.”

Now at that very moment his disciples came back. They were shocked because he was speaking with a woman. [sound familiar?] However, no one said, “What do you want?” or “Why are you speaking with her?” Then the woman left her water jar, went off into the town and said to the people “Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Surely he can’t be the Messiah, can he?” So they left the town and began coming to him."

It truly saddens me that you refuse to see the spiritual flaw in denying women their full rights in Christ? What advantage is there in creating a new version of "THE LAW" to subjugate women, making them into second-class citizens? When Jesus revealed that He was the Messiah, He said it to the lowest of the low: a non-Jewish woman!!!

It's time to give up your legalism and accept that God's truth can be communicated fully and truthfully by women as well as men. Open your spiritual eyes!!!

 

[Free]

Here.

25 Bible Verses About Women Teachers (ESV) - RANKED

This is a hand-curated and ranked list of the most relevant Bible verses about Women Teachers (ESV). Verses are ranked by number of votes.

reformedwiki.com

Now give it a rest. Please.
.

No, I will not. I'm as free as everyone else to post in these forums. Once again, none of those verses actually addresses the context of 1 Tim 2:12 and others that I have given. None show that within the context of the assembled church, it is permissible for women to teach men and exercise authority over them. Not a single one. Some of them have nothing to do with women teachers at all.

Are you at least going to try and address the four points I made?

 

[Free]

Why do you have a problem with women performing any and all roles in the church?

I have already stated I don't. Please read what I write.

Are you creating a new version of the law, i.e., because of something Paul wrote stwo thousand years ago in a time and society that is very, very different than ours?

You know, you're right. Now that I think about it, we should throw out all of Paul's writings, even the whole NT, since it was all written two thousand years ago in a culture very, very different from ours.

(I hope you can see how poor of an argument that is.)

Times have changed!!! Women in modern Western societies are as capable as men in terms of communicating God's truths. Period!

Again, this is irrelevant and a straw man.

You are either governed by the law -- written instructions about how to behave -- or you're governed by the Holy Spirit, who was given to guide us internally into the truth. You are clearly trapped into interpreting what Paul wrote as being a binding law on how Christians are to behave today.

You really don't seem to understand the difference between law and commands for believers, as I have pointed out before.

According to your argument above--"You are either governed by the law -- written instructions about how to behave":

Rom 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
...
Rom 12:9 Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.
Rom 12:10 Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor.
Rom 12:11 Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord.
Rom 12:12 Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.
Rom 12:13 Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.
Rom 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.
Rom 12:15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.
Rom 12:16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight.
Rom 12:17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all.
Rom 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.
Rom 12:19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
Rom 12:20 To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.”
Rom 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Tit 2:1 But as for you, teach what accords with sound doctrine.
Tit 2:2 Older men are to be sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness.
Tit 2:3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good,
Tit 2:4 and so train the young women to love their husbands and children,
Tit 2:5 to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.
Tit 2:6 Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled.
Tit 2:7 Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity,
Tit 2:8 and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.
Tit 2:9 Bondservants are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative,
Tit 2:10 not pilfering, but showing all good faith, so that in everything they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior.

Those two passages are all law. What do you think, that about 85% of the NT is law according to your definition? Should we ignore because it's law or because it was all written 2000 years ago?

Do you really think that Jesus would agree with your attitude? I suggest that you read the story of Jesus and the Samaritan woman. He revealed clearly but gently to her that He was the Messiah, even though it was strictly taboo for a Jewish man to even speak to a Samaritan woman. He revealed to her that He was God's Messiah and she went and told others what had happened. With your attitude they bothviolated the prevailing custom of the day: He, a man, even talking to the woman, was heresy!


John 4:7-9, " A Samaritan woman came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give me some water to drink.” (For his disciples had gone off into the town to buy supplies. So the Samaritan woman said to him, “How can you—a Jew—ask me, a Samaritan woman, for water to drink?” (For Jews use nothing in common with Samaritans.)

John 4:25-30, "The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (the one called Christ); “whenever he comes, he will tell us everything.” Jesus said to her, “I, the one speaking to you, am he.”

Now at that very moment his disciples came back. They were shocked because he was speaking with a woman. [sound familiar?] However, no one said, “What do you want?” or “Why are you speaking with her?” Then the woman left her water jar, went off into the town and said to the people “Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Surely he can’t be the Messiah, can he?” So they left the town and began coming to him."

Again, not relevant and a straw man.

It truly saddens me that you refuse to see the spiritual flaw in denying women their full rights in Christ?

This is begging the question.

What advantage is there in creating a new version of "THE LAW" to subjugate women, making them into second-class citizens? When Jesus revealed that He was the Messiah, He said it to the lowest of the low: a non-Jewish woman!!!

It's time to give up your legalism and accept that God's truth can be communicated fully and truthfully by women as well as men. Open your spiritual eyes!!!

You are seriously confused as to what the issue is. It isn't equality; women are equal. It is God-ordained roles and functions within his Church. "Legalism," as you have used it here, is wrong. We could dismiss most of the NT as legalism