Signs of the Second-Coming

[smaller]

The angels that sinned during the days of Noah, and were cast down to hell... broke the law of Moses?

The scripture you quoted was a reference to the law of Moses.

The days of Noah were quite some time before Moses was born.

Wicked angels were made (by God) to resist (every Word of) God in Christ. And these have "access" into man via their wicked thoughts and sins. See Mark 4:15 and all the other seed parables to see that they are moved into adverse action by the Word and are so within man.

These three scriptures reference the same angels that were disobedient during the days of Noah.
JLB

I don't disagree. The killing flood of Noah was a warning to them. They were essentially made homeless by God's taking away "man" who is their house/habitation. Luke 11:24. Same with S&G, a warning, to them, of their final fate. Noah's destruction was a picture of Gods Word (water) falling down upon their houses. Ephesians 5:26. The fire, their final destruction. Many including Matt. 25.

There is an invisible kingdom that scriptures address. Matt. 12:26, Luke 11:18.

Revelation and all end time accounts detail the final destruction of "that" kingdom.

 

[JLB]

but even that wanders away from the original point I was making about Jesus' words.

I was showing that there was specific sins associated with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, as well as the time of Noah.

Your statement above was what I was addressing, as you stated -

From what I can see Jesus didn't say anything about homosexuality regarding Sodom.

Furthermore - You were indicating that the sin was going about the normal everyday affairs of life, as this statement of yours shows -

it's interesting that Jesus also mentioned the days of Noah in the same context. He could see a deeper problem than homosexuality. Here's what he said;
LK 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
LK 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
LK 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
LK 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, building, planting, buying and selling; all ordinary, average, everyday activities. But here they are, listed as the problems for which the people of Noah and Lot's day were were destroyed.

But here they are, listed as the problems for which the people of Noah and Lot's day were were destroyed.

They were not destroyed for going about the everyday affairs of life. They were destroyed for their ungodliness.

...and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 2 Peter 2:6

and again -

as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 7

Jesus stated these things to show us that they were unaware of the coming destruction, just as the children of wrath will be in the days of the coming of the Lord. They will be going about the everyday affairs of this life, unaware that sudden destruction will come upon them.

Paul explains -

1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-5


The Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, for them... not for those of us whom are the children of the light.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Wicked angels were made (by God) to resist (every Word of) God in Christ.

Please share the scripture where God made "wicked" angels.


JLB

 

[electricaluser]

Are there really tangible signs of the Second-Coming of Christ. I doubt if we can mention any event that has not already taken place in the OT. Perhaps one example would be the 666 Technology.

What is 666 Technology.

 

[smaller]

Please share the scripture where God made "wicked" angels.

JLB

God made everything and all things. Nothing "created" itself, unless of course people are polytheists.

Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

God Himself made the kingdom of Satan and all his minions, and will also take GREAT PLEASURE in destroying same at the end time of this present wicked age. They are "the evil generation."

Matthew 12:34
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Numbers 32:13
And the Lord'S anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the Lord, was consumed.

 

[NBTrollin]

I'm getting really sick of my posts getting deleted when I have valid questions. Shows how open minded some people are. But oh well, I'll ask again... Aren't humans the only ones with freewill, or whatever you want to call it? So why are Angels being sent to hell?

 

[electricaluser]

I'm getting really sick of my posts getting deleted when I have valid questions. Shows how open minded some people are. But oh well, I'll ask again... Aren't humans the only ones with freewill, or whatever you want to call it? So why are Angels being sent to hell?

I always thought Satan and his angels did have freewill, and there was an uprising and he and all his angels fell.

 

[NBTrollin]

Then what was the point of creating man? I thought the only reason such vile creatures were allowed to exist, was because we have the illusion of freewill?

 

[electricaluser]

Then what was the point of creating man? I thought the only reason such vile creatures were allowed to exist, was because we have the illusion of freewill?

I think the point God had in creating mankind was to have a relationship with them he couldn't have with his angels. Once Satan and his angels knew about this they resented God for it and tried to find a way to destroy the relationship.

 

[smaller]

I always thought Satan and his angels did have freewill, and there was an uprising and he and all his angels fell.

The notion of Holy Angels gone south and turned into devils is a fairy tale.

Satan was a liar and a murderer from the beginning. John 8:44, 1 John 3:8. As are his children, demons, the same. They were never holy and never meant to be nor were they made that way.

There is not one mention of Satan EVER being "Holy" anywhere in the scriptures.

 

[reba]

Rev_4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

 

[smaller]

IF God made the wicked angels PRECISELY evil and uses same to cause the demonstration of His Mercy for us, and destroys them in the end, then God is entirely justified in doing so and evil will be proven to be Gods servant and Him, Far Superior OVER same. God CAN and does use evil for good. He Is that Capable.

And from this, our present HOPE arises, to rejoice, over His Unsurpassing Greatness above "all things."

Our God Reigns!

 

[reba]

AMEN

 

[electricaluser]

The notion of Holy Angels gone south and turned into devils is a fairy tale.

Satan was a liar and a murderer from the beginning. John 8:44, 1 John 3:8. As are his children, demons, the same. They were never holy and never meant to be nor were they made that way.

There is not one mention of Satan EVER being "Holy" anywhere in the scriptures.

Hi smaller, I think you might be right about that. I don't know what that means for my ideas, but I'll keep using the fall of Satan analogy for now. You see it's my sticky note to an event that took place 6000 years ago that collapsed our original human system. (I'm still working out what that is.)

 

[smaller]

Hi smaller, I think you might be right about that. I don't know what that means for my ideas, but I'll keep using the fall of Satan analogy for now. You see it's my sticky note to an event that took place 6000 years ago that collapsed our original human system. (I'm still working out what that is.)

Jesus provided His Light on this subject, as to what happened with Adam.

The instant God blessed Adam, then Mark 4:15 happened to Adam. The "law" followed shortly thereafter, to arouse and rile "resistence" of the tempter even further, to reveal himself in SIN.

Adam however was God's son. Luke 3:38. It was impossible for God to lose Adam. The 'seed' of Jesus' Humanity was also carried in Adam/Eve, vivified in Life by God Himself as His Father. In Jesus, God Himself made His Mysterious Appearance on the earth, and took part in these events, personally. That is the Greatest Mystery there is.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God in Christ has demonstrated His Own Longsuffering and Divine Patience, The Divine Characteristics of LOVE, and has "imbued" us with His same, in our present suffering.

 

[electricaluser]

Jesus provided His Light on this subject, as to what happened with Adam.

The instant God blessed Adam, then Mark 4:15 happened to Adam. The "law" followed shortly thereafter, to arouse and rile "resistence" of the tempter even further, to reveal himself in SIN.

Adam however was God's son. Luke 3:38. It was impossible for God to lose Adam. The 'seed' of Jesus' Humanity was also carried in Adam/Eve, vivified in Life by God Himself as His Father. In Jesus, God Himself made His Mysterious Appearance on the earth, and took part in these events, personally. That is the Greatest Mystery there is.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God in Christ has demonstrated His Own Longsuffering and Divine Patience, The Divine Characteristics of LOVE, and has "imbued" us with His same, in our present suffering.

You are just full of interesting bible tidbits.

 

[john darling]

I was showing that there was specific sins associated with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, as well as the time of Noah.

I don't think you showed it. You posted some verses with an explanation, but I gave a counter explanation which I think was more consistent with the over all context. For example, you linked homosexuality to Noah's day by listing a verse which describes the rebellion of angels and the rebellion of Sodom as meaning the angels were guilty of the same sin as Sodom (though the verse doesn't say that) and then listing a verse about how there were angels found in Noah's day, thus presuming the angels were guilty of homosexuality and that's why Jesus brought Noah's day into the picture along with Sodom.

It's a rather convoluted connection which feels more forced than consistent with what Jesus actually said (or what the other verses actually say), especially since Jesus didn't mention anything about homosexuality when listing the sins of Noah and Sodom's day.

Anyway, Jesus says it will be like this in the end, when people are concerned about all these various ordinary things. I think the buying and selling part is particularly intersting because the Mark of the Beast, which is very much an end-time issue, is also described as the means through which buying and selling will be controlled (Rev 13:16-17).

For a world dependent on buying/selling, that's an important part of the prophecy, yet one which is almost universally disregarded by most Christians. It's very much like how Jesus described the end times; people will be too busy with buying and selling (and all the various ordinary activies of life) to care about what God wants.

For context, compare these two teachings;

LK 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

LK 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

LK 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

-----------------

LK 14:17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.

LK 14:18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.

LK 14:19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.

LK 14:20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.

The idea I see being communicated here is one of people who are just too busy doing their own thing to be concerned about what God wants. This includes sexual immorality, but also includes all the ordinary, normal stuff which most of us would just naturally assume God would have no problem with. It's not that these ordinary things are wrong in themselves, but that we may be involved in them without concern for what God wants on the assumption that God could not possibly have a problem with us in these various areas. I think this kind of thing has always been around to some, but these days it just seems to be everywhere.

 

[JLB]

I don't think you showed it. You posted some verses with an explanation, but I gave a counter explanation which I think was more consistent with the over all context. For example, you linked homosexuality to Noah's day by listing a verse which describes the rebellion of angels and the rebellion of Sodom as meaning the angels were guilty of the same sin as Sodom (though the verse doesn't say that) and then listing a verse about how there were angels found in Noah's day, thus presuming the angels were guilty of homosexuality and that's why Jesus brought Noah's day into the picture along with Sodom.

The angels of Noah's day were guilty of sexual immorality, as Sodom and Gomorrah's sin is sexual immorality.

And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 6-7

Anyway, Jesus says it will be like this in the end, when people are concerned about all these various ordinary things.

So the sign that Jesus gave for us to look for, just before He returns is - "people going about the ordinary affairs of life".

Is that what you are teaching this Forum?

For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Matthew 24:38-39

This tells me that the ungodly will be unaware when the destruction will come upon them, just as in the days of Noah.

The signs that Jesus gave for us to look for just before He returns are: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matthew 24:29


JLB

 

[smaller]

Hebrews 10:25
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

 

[john darling]

The angels of Noah's day were guilty of sexual immorality, as Sodom and Gomorrah's sin is sexual immorality.

And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 6-7

I think you are still misunderstanding the verse. Verse 5 says "God destroyed those who believed not". This is one of those examples of the word "believe" being synonymous with "obey" because Jude then goes on to talk about how both the angels and S/G rebelled against God. It sets the context for these two examples

Verse six says what the angels' sin was. They left the place God wanted them to be. Jude describes a punishment for them. Then it goes on to the next example of rebellion (or unbelief) by using the phrase, "even as Sodom and Gomorrah". The "as" here is showing a connection between the topic of the first example (i.e. punishment for going where they shouldn't) and the topic of the second example (i.e. punishment for sexual immorality). The overall context for both examples is not homosexuality, but rebellion or, as verse 5 calls it, unbelief.

It's like me saying, "On this forum, there are some areas where people must post scriptural references to support their position and if they consistently refuse to do so they will be banned, even as those who come here to promote other religions, not caring at all about the forum rules, will be banned. The context is "not caring about the forum rules" in both cases, though in each specific case they are guilty of two different kinds of "not caring".

I'm not saying the angels were not guilty of sexual immorality. Maybe they were. I'm saying this verse does not say they were.

So the sign that Jesus gave for us to look for, just before He returns is - "people going about the ordinary affairs of life".

Is that what you are teaching this Forum?

The incredulity in this question leads me to believe that Jesus knew exactly what he was doing when he raised "the ordinary" as problem issues to be aware of. It's true that I am "teaching" that we should question even the most basic, normal, ordinary activities, but it's not "my" teahcing to begin with. Jesus actually used those words. But you say it's all about homosexuality, a word which he did not use. Don't you find that even a tiny bit strange? The words Jesus clearly used are substituted for a word which he did not use, and on the basis that you presonally cannot believe God may have a problem with the ordinary, day-to-day activities we become involved in.

Sure, Sodom is most typically notable for it's sexual immorality, but Jesus saw something beyond the typical. He saw a deeper problem.

When you were posting on the topic of OSAS, I really appreciated your contributions because you were very careful to look at what the verses actually said, whereas other people could only make that doctrine work if they presumed meanings which were not in the words actually used. I am somewhat genuinely surprised to see you doing something similar here.

For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Matthew 24:38-39

This tells me that the ungodly will be unaware when the destruction will come upon them, just as in the days of Noah.

Some will probably be unaware, but a lack of awareness does not speak as to WHY they were unaware. Jesus says we should not let unawareness take us by surprise and that the only way to do so is to remain vigilant (Luke 12:36-40). I don't think we can do that while we are substituting Jesus' words for words which conform more easily to our personal views of what's really wrong with this world (i.e. homosexuality vs rebellion in the form of normal, day-to-day life).

The problem is the lack of regard for what God wants, right down to the most basic, simple, ordinary affairs of life. We run after these various things thinking it is normal to do so, so much so that God himself cannot break through and tell us to do something different ( Luke 18:22).

We end up with a world full of people who pay lip service to God, but whose heart is far from him (Matthew 15:8).