Sinless To Be Saved

[Rookie]

Read the verse. There is no division between moral, civil,and ceremonial law. Break one and you have broken all.

So I'm sure you're keeping all 613 laws, doing all the daily sacrifices, and doing all the festivals. Right?

 

[Blain DeCastro]

Do people really believe they can be sinless to keep their salvation? If so then what scripture do they use to prove this to be the case?

 

[onlysaved]

Do people really believe they can be sinless to keep their salvation? If so then what scripture do they use to prove this to be the case?

If they believe that they have no faith in Christ. The Christian faith is defined by our inability to do what is required by any or all laws and that Christ lived to do what we could not and to die for the debt we accrued as a result of our lawlessness.

"If any man says he is without sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him."
1 John 1 ,8

It's very simple...

Study the parable of the good Samaritan if you think you're sinless enough.
Keeping in mind
1. The context.. how to earn your way to heaven according to Jesus
The Samaritan was an enemy of the "neighbor"
The "neighbor" paid two months wages for the care of the Samaritan

Lastly neighbor would have to do this every time for everybody, this is a way of life not a one time thing..

Think you're good enough for heaven you need to get over yourself

 

[Blain DeCastro]

If they believe that they have no faith in Christ. The Christian faith is defined by our inability to do what is required by any or all laws and that Christ lived to do what we could not and to die for the debt we accrued as a result of our lawlessness.

"If any man says he is without sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him."
1 John 1 ,8

It's very simple...

Study the parable of the good Samaritan if you think you're sinless enough.
Keeping in mind
1. The context.. how to earn your way to heaven according to Jesus
The Samaritan was an enemy of the "neighbor"
The "neighbor" paid two months wages for the care of the Samaritan

Lastly neighbor would have to do this every time for everybody, this is a way of life not a one time thing..

Think you're good enough for heaven you need to get over yourself

Yes precisely that verse alone should prove that one cannot be sinless or without sin so knowing this and assuming people are reading their bibles how could one even begin to think they can be sinless let alone to keep their salvation.

It would require that the level of ignorance and pride would blind them to the truth , so this is why I wonder if people actually think this considering all of this there is just no way people can be that blind

 

[Free]

I am asking you to show us chapter and verse that draws distinction between those classifications.

There is no chapter and verse, but there are many theologians who, by the nature of the laws, distinguish between moral, ceremonial, and civil/judicial. I think that those are fairly clear distinctions.

What James 2.10 throws on its head is the statement that the Law was divided into sub-groupings; moral, civil, ceremonial, etc. No such distinction exists in scripture and I was asking you to show me and the others here chapter and verse that support sub-dividing the Law into the different groups.

As James said, if you break one point, like a ceremonial point, you have broken ALL of the Law, including the moral codes.

I don't see how how James 2:10 refutes the idea of sub-divisions in the Law. It neither supports nor refutes it.

 

[Free]

Do people really believe they can be sinless to keep their salvation? If so then what scripture do they use to prove this to be the case?

There are a number of threads in these forums from one or two who truly believe that is the case--that if you commit even one sin, it is evidence that you are not saved. It's even on the first page of this thread.

 

[onlysaved]

If that is the case then Christ died for nothing.

There are a number of threads in these forums from one or two who truly believe that is the case--that if you commit even one sin, it is evidence that you are not saved. It's even on the first page of this thread.

 

[Free]

If that is the case then Christ died for nothing.

They still argue that salvation is based on Christ's death and resurrection, but that means one doesn't sin anymore.

 

[Blain DeCastro]

There are a number of threads in these forums from one or two who truly believe that is the case--that if you commit even one sin, it is evidence that you are not saved. It's even on the first page of this thread.

Interesting if I come accross them I would like to discuss that with them because scripture clearly says this is not the case so I want to see what they have to say about this verse in particular

The scripture that states, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us

 

[Free]

Interesting if I come accross them I would like to discuss that with them because scripture clearly says this is not the case so I want to see what they have to say about this verse in particular

The scripture that states, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us

If you want to see what they say, just search their posts. They like to twist it while ignoring context.

 

[Blain DeCastro]

If you want to see what they say, just search their posts. They like to twist it while ignoring context.

Well I would have to go through this entire thread for that wouldn't I? I am legally blind so I cannot read that much at once is there perhaps anyone in particular I should keep an eye out for?

 

[Free]

Well I would have to go through this entire thread for that wouldn't I? I am legally blind so I cannot read that much at once is there perhaps anyone in particular I should keep an eye out for?

Try here: https://christianforums.net/threads...h…-the-doctrine-of-christ.111824/post-1934540

 

[Blain DeCastro]

Try here: https://christianforums.net/threads/cultivating-a-love-for-the-truth…-the-doctrine-of-christ.111824/post-1934540

I read what they said and it is astonishing how they try to justify their belief in being sinless and they flat out ignore the verse that says otherwise.

I will have to keep an eye out for them because their walking a dangerous path and don't realize it

 

[GodsGrace]

I totally get the difficulty of replying on a phone.

What James 2.10 throws on its head is the statement that the Law was divided into sub-groupings; moral, civil, ceremonial, etc. No such distinction exists in scripture and I was asking you to show me and the others here chapter and verse that support sub-dividing the Law into the different groups.

As James said, if you break one point, like a ceremonial point, you have broken ALL of the Law, including the moral codes.

OK
I see what you mean.
Won't be home till Friday so sorry for the short reply.

Do you believe the Apostles were still practicing ALL of the law?
Did they still make yearly visit to Jerusalem?
Still offered sacrifices?
Still stoned women accused of adultery?
Still accepted a certificate of divorce?

There's no chapter and verse.
But we know that there were 3 types of Law.
Two became null.
One is eternal...the Moral Law.

 

[onlysaved]

They still argue that salvation is based on Christ's death and resurrection, but that means one doesn't sin anymore.

That's a misunderstanding of our depravity and a misunderstanding of sin.. I mean God killed a guy for thinking his hands were cleaner than the dirt.

OK
I see what you mean.
Won't be home till Friday so sorry for the short reply.

Do you believe the Apostles were still practicing ALL of the law?
Did they still make yearly visit to Jerusalem?
Still offered sacrifices?
Still stoned women accused of adultery?
Still accepted a certificate of divorce?

There's no chapter and verse.
But we know that there were 3 types of Law.
Two became null.
One is eternal...the Moral Law.

And the saved still break the moral law and it does not affect their salvation. Those who claim not to ever break God's moral law are liars and the truth is not in them.

To understand what God has done for us you have to understand how incredibly corrupt and devastatingly depraved we are. We become marginally better through God's work of sanctification.

To make an example.. the most moral human being who ever lived, the one who loved God more than anyone ever was still more like Adolf Hitler than they were like Jesus.
That's how bad we are.

 

[D-D-W]

So I'm sure you're keeping all 613 laws, doing all the daily sacrifices, and doing all the festivals. Right?

You show a lack of understanding of the Law. Or of Acts 15.
Some of those 613 were sinful to many. If our Lord tried to perform a sacrifice, He would have committed a sin. He was not a Levite.

Acts 15 (and 21) limits what is needed in Law observance for Gentile believers. Chapter 21 shows that exemption doesn't apply to Jewish believers.

 

[D-D-W]

Do you believe the Apostles were still practicing ALL of the law?

As they were Jews, yes.

Paul said in Acts 28 , not only did he keep the Law, he also kept the oral law which he called the traditions of the fathers.

But we know that there were 3 types of Law.
Two became null.
One is eternal...the Moral Law.

How exactly do we know that?

 

[GodsGrace]

As they were Jews, yes.

But we're not Jews.

Paul said in Acts 28 , not only did he keep the Law, he also kept the oral law which he called the traditions of the fathers.

Then we shouldn't be eating pork

How exactly do we know that?

Because brains better than mine have studied the Bible.

Betrothal is a civil law.
Sacrifice is a ceremonial law.
Do not kill is a moral law.

I refuse to believe that you don't know this.
Maybe you just don't accept it.

 

[D-D-W]

But we're not Jews.

Some of us are.

Then we shouldn't be eating pork

If you are Jewish I agree. Or if you have attached yourself to the Jewish community.

Because brains better than mine have studied the Bible

Jewish brains? Paul said God entrusted the Scriptures to the Jews. Romans 3.

Betrothal is a civil law.
Sacrifice is a ceremonial law.
Do not kill is a moral law.

I refuse to believe that you don't know this.
Maybe you just don't accept it.

I was taught that too. But when I took a long hard look at that James passage, I had to throw it out.

 

[Blain DeCastro]

Some of us are.

If you are Jewish I agree. Or if you have attached yourself to the Jewish community.

Jewish brains? Paul said God entrusted the Scriptures to the Jews. Romans 3.

I was taught that too. But when I took a long hard look at that James passage, I had to throw it out.

What does being a jew mean in the context of this topic? I am part jewish so what does it mean for me?