Bible Study SO YOU THINK YOU ARE SAVED.

[for_his_glory]

Let's again make this clear. The body is dead because of sin. That conclusion doesn't change by "obedience." That conclusion doesn't change by disobedience. That conclusion doesn't change by confession. That conclusion doesn't change by repentance. That conclusion doesn't change, PERIOD.

Now, let's all pretend otherwise? I think not. Let's be honest for a change.



I'd say if anyone thinks their dead because of sin body is anything other than what it is they are just kidding themselves. I might even say honesty before God in Christ is the basis of legitimate fellowship. I'm not about to claim my dead because of sin body something else. There is no point in doing so. I prefer to see it as Paul directed to see it because that is HONEST sight.

Are we going to tell Jesus otherwise? I think that such people are just pulling Jesus' Leg.

Titus 2:11-15 for the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. Teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world. Jesus came to show us how to overcome the sin nature of the world by teaching us how to live a moral life compatible with the word of God.

Jesus gave of himself for all of us and redeemed us from the curse of sin by taking all our sin becoming the final blood sacrifice for his love towards everyone. When we come to Jesus it is Gods grace that forgives our sins and remembers them no more. Sin will always be present with us because the flesh will always sin for that is its nature, but when we ask Jesus into our hearts we also receive at that same moment the gift of the Holy Spirit which teaches us how to separate ourselves from the ungodliness and lusts of this world. We may have to live in this world, but as a child of God we are not part of this world because our inner man, or heart, has now become renewed in the Spirit of God and sinless through the grace of God.

1Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Cor 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Cor 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Cor 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

 

[smaller]

Surely that's part of it.
But does being honest about your sin before God

Being honest about the body being dead because of sin is just that.

and then not entering into obedience regarding that sin,

The body is dead because of sin. There is no form of obedience that is going to change that fact.

but instead choosing to wallow in it, mean we can still have fellowship with God? I say no. I'm betting you say yes.

There is no 'wallow.' It's a simple clearly defined fact. I don't wallow because 2 + 2 equals 4 because that fact isn't going to change no matter what kind of emotion I attach to it. Nor do I wallow because of the fact that the body, my body, is dead because of sin. I know that conclusion is not going to change.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

We can not leave out any Mat 5 :32
the only reason for divorce stated in Mat 5:32 fornication

It doesn't matter.
If you're saved, you're saved.

 

[smaller]

Titus 2:11-15 for the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. Teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world. Jesus came to show us how to overcome the sin nature of the world by teaching us how to live a moral life compatible with the word of God.

Does living a moral life change this conclusion? Did it make the body that is dead because of sin any different?

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Do we let the dead because of sin body off the hook via morality? Via obedience?

Jesus gave of himself for all of us and redeemed us from the curse of sin by taking all our sin becoming the final blood sacrifice for his love towards everyone.

I totally agree! Sins are not counted against us. 2 Cor. 5:19. We still have a body that is dead because of sin regardless. Is it even possible to have a dead because of sin "moral body?" I think not. It just is what it is and that conclusion can not change for any of us.

When we come to Jesus it is Gods grace that forgives our sins and remembers them no more. Sin will always be present with us

Exactly. It is quite pointless to make or claim that indwelling sin is anything but what it really is. Sin indwelling the flesh. Paul saw this matter thusly. He described SIN as NO LONGER I. Paul recognized that sin indwelling his flesh had a contrary mind to HIS OWN. I don't think he soft soaped his own sin in the flesh, but rather, rightfully, condemned it. Just as we all should. And, with such a contrary mind that indwelling sin DOES have, we should not try to claim it moral or obedient, but rather reign above it, keeping it firmly in it's place. It will not change it's stripes because of morality or obedience.

God respects NO person and does not because we all have a body, dead because of sin, that is contrary to the Spirit. This is also why I value, GREATLY, Gods Mercy and (un)merited Grace. There is no way possible that my dead because of sin body could EVER earn such. Not by obedience. Not by morality. Grace and Mercy are a One Way street. I have no claim for such by anything "I" did.

because the flesh will always sin for that is its nature, but when we ask Jesus into our hearts we also receive at that same moment the gift of the Holy Spirit which teaches us how to separate ourselves from the ungodliness and lusts of this world.

Again, I agree. I will not claim my dead because of sin body to be anything other than what it really is.

We may have to live in this world, but as a child of God we are not part of this world because our inner man, or heart, has now become renewed in the Spirit of God and sinless through the grace of God.

I am very cognizant that the flesh, my flesh, is against the Spirit. And, as such, as a child of God, I am factually AGAINST my own flesh. I won't give it an inch. The last thing I'll accept from it is the LIE that it is anything other.

 

[for_his_glory]

I've cited these before and I'll cite them again. Jesus said the mere THOUGHT of evil is evil and defiling. Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23

Many on the other hand do not believe these statements of fact. They quite falsely believe that sin is only an EXTERNAL matter. It's not. Sin is in the heart. And it is verified to be in the heart by evil defiling thoughts.

Paul also tells us quite clearly that the law is made for sinners, and Adam GOT THE LAW before he or Eve did an EXTERNAL ACT of sin.

That law, do not eat, was made for sinners. That's why that LAW came to Adam.



That's because you do not see this matter as Jesus shows us. Sin is internal first. And is proven by the slightest evil thought which defiles us. Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23

IF we follow Jesus' line of discourse on this matter we'll see WHY the law came to Adam. Read Mark 4:15. The instant God sowed His Words of blessing on Adam, then Mark 4:15 happened as a fact. And then came the LAW immediately afterwards. Most however miss this detail and see only Adam and they utterly fail to see the entrance of the tempter into the heart of Adam.



You see only Adam. I don't see Adam that way. I see Jesus' fact of Mark 4:15 happening to Adam. Your attempt of seeing only Adam won't work when Jesus sheds HIS LIGHT of fact on the subject matter.

The law was/is made for the lawless. Adam got the LAW, do not eat. Why? Because that LAW was made for the sinner.



Uh, no. Satan was perfect in all "his ways." A perfect DEVIL is a devil nonetheless. Putting the word perfect in front of "in all thy ways" means a perfect devil regardless.

And wonderful? Where are you pulling that claim from? "Wonderful Satan?!" Just so you know the notion that Satan was once a HOLY ANGEL does not exist in the scriptures. It is a fairytale concoction from some camps of freewillism, but as a position it does not exist. Jesus said the devil was a murderer from the beginning, presumably his own beginning.

Was it an evil thought when Adam disobeyed God? How could it be if Adam had no knowledge of good and evil at first. You quote Mark 4:15, but this is after the fact or other words after Adams eyes were opened to the knowledge of good and evil. Same for any of us as only God will chasten us after the fact of knowing we are doing wrong.

You say I only see Adam, but no, I see Adam as in all who are created and God breathed as being pure in the beginning wonderfully made by God until they understand the difference between good and evil and choose between the two.

The law is not made for the lawless, but given for those who have transgressed Gods word from the beginning to bring their hearts back to God as their hearts became hardened to His word. If the letter of the laws of God worked and kept everyone in obedience than there would have been no need of Jesus's blood sacrifice, Apparently man still chose to disobey God before and even after Moses came down from Sinai and gave man Gods laws.

Have to disagree, as Satan was perfect before sin was found in him as everything God created was wonderfully made for His good pleasure.

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

We are wonderfully made in the image of God:
Psa 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
Psa 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

Yes, Satan was a murder from the beginning when sin was found in him, but only after he fell from Gods grace.

 

[Edward]

I would consider the Words of Jesus on matters of evil thoughts being evil and defiling before I just brushed off "evil sin thoughts" and not calling them as Jesus called them, evil defiling sin.

To say otherwise I would consider to be a working of sin itself, denying that it is such. The notion that "my evil/wicked sin thoughts are NOT a sin, are NOT evil, are NOT defiling" is a direct affront to the truth about the matters that Jesus said here:

Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23

IF anyone says otherwise, they have been deceived by sin and are making the OPPOSING or OPPOSITE position than what Jesus gave us in His Word.

In the O.T. there is a PROMISE that Jesus would MAGNIFY the LAW.

When Jesus said the mere thought of adultery was ADULTERY IN HEART, He magnified that LAW, pinpointing SIN to the mere thoughts of same.

To say otherwise is to put ones self at ODDS with Gods Words.

I'm sorry brother, you completely misunderstood me.

 

[reba]

It doesn't matter.
If you're saved, you're saved.

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[for_his_glory]

Does living a moral life change this conclusion? Did it make the body that is dead because of sin any different?

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Do we let the dead because of sin body off the hook via morality? Via obedience?


I totally agree! Sins are not counted against us. 2 Cor. 5:19. We still have a body that is dead because of sin regardless. Is it even possible to have a dead because of sin "moral body?" I think not. It just is what it is and that conclusion can not change for any of us.



Exactly. It is quite pointless to make or claim that indwelling sin is anything but what it really is. Sin indwelling the flesh. Paul saw this matter thusly. He described SIN as NO LONGER I. Paul recognized that sin indwelling his flesh had a contrary mind to HIS OWN. I don't think he soft soaped his own sin in the flesh, but rather, rightfully, condemned it. Just as we all should. And, with such a contrary mind that indwelling sin DOES have, we should not try to claim it moral or obedient, but rather reign above it, keeping it firmly in it's place. It will not change it's stripes because of morality or obedience.

God respects NO person and does not because we all have a body, dead because of sin, that is contrary to the Spirit. This is also why I value, GREATLY, Gods Mercy and (un)merited Grace. There is no way possible that my dead because of sin body could EVER earn such. Not by obedience. Not by morality. Grace and Mercy are a One Way street. I have no claim for such by anything "I" did.



Again, I agree. I will not claim my dead because of sin body to be anything other than what it really is.



I am very cognizant that the flesh, my flesh, is against the Spirit. And, as such, as a child of God, I am factually AGAINST my own flesh. I won't give it an inch. The last thing I'll accept from it is the LIE that it is anything other.

You asked: Does living a moral life change this conclusion? Did it make the body that is dead because of sin any different?

It's a moral life we need to be seeking everyday as we come to know the mind of Christ as when we are risen with Christ through the renewal of our inner man than we will seek those things from above and not seek the wickedness of this earth, Colossians Chapter 3.

It won't be until Jesus returns that this corruptible flesh will put on incorruptible and this mortal will put on immortality that the sin of death in the flesh will have no victory over us.

1Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I might also add that I doubt very much that Jesus is interested in being married to a body that is dead because of sin. That entire notion is laughable.

Do you know what a metaphor is? Do you know what an analogy is?

Someone who is still in an obedient, submissive relationship with their sin nature can not for that very reason be in an obedient, submissive relationship with Jesus. I think what is laughable, besides being unBiblical, is the notion that one can think they can still be in an obedient, submissive relationship with their sin nature (LIKE a wife is to a husband) and they somehow also be in an obedient, submissive relationship with another 'husband', Jesus Christ. Which is the point chopper is getting at with this thread.

Paul uses the analogy of human marriage to illustrate the point. Not the point that believers are still in an obedient, submissive 'marital' relationship with their sin nature, but rather that they have been set free from that submissive relationship and can now be in submission to, and in relationship with Jesus Christ. A point that seems seriously absent from your particular doctrine.

We're here to discuss the Bible, that's all. You are certainly free to hold whatever doctrines you want to, and freely discuss them here as you have been. Not looking for an argument. But I will admit I'm looking to store up some rewards in the kingdom for myself by sharing what I see in the scriptures and persuading some casual, or not so casual forum readers to be that reward for me in the kingdom by hearing the truth and coming to a genuine faith and repentance that ushers them into the kingdom.

The Spirit is and remains factually against and contrary to the flesh. Gal. 5:17. This 'adverse' relationship doesn't change. And it is NO MARRIAGE either.

I think you are quite wrong in that. The relationship DOES change. According to Paul, we believers have died to the old slave/master, wife/husband relationship we had with our sin nature. This being true, we don't legally by force of the law have to obey the dictates of that old 'husband' anymore. We have been set from that force of law to now be in 'marital' submission to new husband Jesus Christ and bring to fruition his seed planted within us. But it sounds like to me that you're saying we have no choice but to stay bound to a 'husband' (sin nature) that Paul says died with Christ on the cross.

So, what Paul said being true, we not only can be 'one flesh' with Christ's body (LIKE a wife to her husband, it's an analogy), but we in fact have the obligation to submit to that new master (Jesus Christ) and bear his 'children' (mercy, joy, peace, patience, etc.). And based on the scriptures that have been getting posted here it's NOT okay if we don't. No excuse of us being 'dead in the body because of sin' excuses any professing Christian from that obligation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Let's again make this clear. The body is dead because of sin. That conclusion doesn't change by "obedience." That conclusion doesn't change by disobedience. That conclusion doesn't change by confession. That conclusion doesn't change by repentance. That conclusion doesn't change, PERIOD.

Yes, but in your doctrine do those things change your manifest fellowship with God? If not can you cite the Bible in this Bible study thread to support your view?

 

[for_his_glory]

smaller let me ask you what does the cross and the blood mean to you?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

That's for someone whose sins are not covered by the blood of Christ.
OSAS

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Do you know what a metaphor is? Do you know what an analogy is?

Someone who is still in an obedient, submissive relationship with their sin nature can not for that very reason be in an obedient, submissive relationship with Jesus. I think what is laughable, besides being unBiblical, is the notion that one can think they can still be in an obedient, submissive relationship with their sin nature (LIKE a wife is to a husband) and they somehow also be in an obedient, submissive relationship with another 'husband', Jesus Christ. Which is the point chopper is getting at with this thread.

Paul uses the analogy of human marriage to illustrate the point. Not the point that believers are still in an obedient, submissive 'marital' relationship with their sin nature, but rather that they have been set free from that submissive relationship and can now be in submission to, and in relationship with Jesus Christ. A point that seems seriously absent from your particular doctrine.

We're here to discuss the Bible, that's all. You are certainly free to hold whatever doctrines you want to, and freely discuss them here as you have been. Not looking for an argument. But I will admit I'm looking to store up some rewards in the kingdom for myself by sharing what I see in the scriptures and persuading some casual, or not so casual forum readers to be that reward for me in the kingdom by hearing the truth and coming to a genuine faith and repentance that ushers them into the kingdom.


I think you are quite wrong in that. The relationship DOES change. According to Paul, we believers have died to the old slave/master, wife/husband relationship we had with our sin nature. This being true, we don't legally by force of the law have to obey the dictates of that old 'husband' anymore. We have been set from that force of law to now be in 'marital' submission to new husband Jesus Christ and bring to fruition his seed planted within us. But it sounds like to me that you're saying we have no choice but to stay bound to a 'husband' (sin nature) that Paul says died with Christ on the cross.

So, what Paul said being true, we not only can be 'one flesh' with Christ's body (LIKE a wife to her husband, it's an analogy), but we in fact have the obligation to submit to that new master (Jesus Christ) and bear his 'children' (mercy, joy, peace, patience, etc.). And based on the scriptures that have been getting posted here it's NOT okay if we don't. No excuse of us being 'dead in the body because of sin' excuses any professing Christian from that obligation.

I'd like to meet you.
I've never met a sinless person before.

 

[reba]

That's for someone whose sins are not covered by the blood of Christ.
OSAS

I agree that is exactly my point..

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That's for someone whose sins are not covered by the blood of Christ.

Correct. They stopped believing somewhere along the line, the cessation of their overcoming being the evidence of that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'd like to meet you.
I've never met a sinless person before.

Should I wear my halo?

The only things 'sinless' about me are 1) your misunderstanding of my post, and 2) the fact that Christ loses my sins somewhere as far away as the east is from the west whenever I bring them to him. He's absent minded that way.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Saved from hell.
How did she do it?

 

[reba]

 

[Chopper]

Thread continued....
Here's this verse again....
Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him.

To bring this verse down to where the rubber meets the road, here is a quote from a very good friend of mine. I counseled a fellow who had divorced his wife and remarried. A bunch of very negative things came upon him. He told me that his divorce was not Scriptural but he did it anyway. Now he is very upset at this very bad situation that he finds himself and his second Wife in. He is complaining constantly to anyone who will listen.

This is what my friend said to me. "Tell them to quit whining. What a self centered crybaby". This is what Hebrews 12:5 is referring to " My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him."

I want to speak about a proper fear of the Lord. When was the last time your preacher taught on the fear of God, never? In this day and age, that's not a popular subject. IMO it's because our leaders don't know how to explain it. The Catholic Church can be a prime example of propagating a fear of God in a wrong way.

When I was in High school, many moons ago, The Catholic Church was beside my parents home. A lot of my friends were catholic. There were times when I wanted my friends to join me in my Methodist Church related function. The Priest told them that that would be a very bad sin. He put the fear of God into them for sure.

Lets see what God says about fear....
Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

IMO, a proper fear of God is to fear the consequences of sinning against His Commands and Jesus' found in the New Testament. For some strange reason, probably because Satan does not want Christians concerned about what will happen if they sin against God. I believe that Satan is behind this false teaching in these last days of total grace that covers our sins with no backlash.

When God forgives us of our sins, He remembers them no more. That means that since God is the Judge, He can legally not bring up our forgiven sins to judge us in the future. Now, that's grace!! This new doctrine that is spread by false teachers have convinced Christians that because of grace, there will be no consequences of sinning against God by breaking any of His Commands.

Look at 1 Corinthians 10:1-12....
1Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Along with the moral fingerprints of Our Father and His Son thru their Commands, there are other holy standards that we should stay away from.

Ok, I'll end this study on sinning against God and remembering that we are Children of God. Just like our own human Fathers, if we did something wrong according to the standards of our family, we might get a good "talking to" or, as my Father did, put his leather slipper on my backside four or five times. That was my consequence for disobeying my parents.

Scripture teaches us that if our earthly father disciplined us, He will too, simple as that. I'm in hopes that this thread will cause us to reflect more seriously on our position in Christ Jesus. I think we need to look at sin from the watchful eyes of our Heavenly Father. Sin, whether in the Old Testament or New, was a terrible act against His Holy plans for His children. We all know that sin sent Jesus, God's only Son to His death on that cruel cross.

Somehow, we must examine why we sin. There is the disappointment of God as He has to deal with our sins, and I'm sure that He doesn't like spanking us because of our neglect of following His rules set down for our good any more than my human Father and his spankings.

We have our Heavenly Fathers rules for living, His Commands on one side, and on the other side, our worldly, fleshly desires on the other. Which side will win? Folks, this is an every day battle going on whether we realize it or not. What started this thread in my mind was a conversation with the good friend of mine that I mentioned. We discussed this persons complaints to us about what a terrible life just to exist, how could God let this happen?

My friend and I, both came to the conclusion that this was the chastening Hand of our Heavenly Father. No one knows why our Father does what He does. I'm sure that at times, our Gracious Heavenly Father accepts our plea for forgiveness and that's it, no consequences. Other times, our sins effect other people in a very damaging way and place that person in great difficulty of which they plead with God for help. So God helps that person and He chastises us because of our sin against that person.

IMO, the Spirit of God, knit my heart with my friends heart and showed us a side of a sinful divorce and the consequences that the person hated. Then the thought came to my mind, Ok, what about the absence of any spanking from my Heavenly Father when ever I sin, no matter who I step on or insult, or steal from, or seduce my neighbors wife? I think the Scriptures are clear, I'M NOT SAVED.

Thanks to all my friends for participating in this thread. Your reply's have been great and caused me to search out the Scriptures to make sure I was on solid ground. I love you all, a special "thanks" to all of you.

THE END

 

[Chopper]

Think about this for just a half a second. Almost everybody thinks Adam sinned when he ate the infamous fruit.

Paul tells us otherwise:

1 Timothy 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Read that fact loud and clear. The LAW is made for sinners.

The law, DO NOT EAT, came to Adam before he or Eve ATE.

Why? Because Adam was already a SINNER.

Wow Smaller, I have never thought of it just that way. Hmm, according to what the Word of God says thru Timothy, it is the Truth. Thank you for pointing that out. Do you think that it's because God's omniscience that He knew Adam would sin? Very interesting new thought.