Bible Study SO YOU THINK YOU ARE SAVED.

[for_his_glory]

True. That is why it's pointless to try and justify the flesh. Or more accurately what is "in" the flesh.

It is more interesting to see WHY the flesh is adversarial. It's not because of the organic compounds flesh is made of, but rather, what is IN it. If we dissected the flesh we are not going to find physical evidence of either indwelling sin or evil present with us. These are in fact adversarial spiritual workings that we have all been placed UNDER, in the flesh.

We will find no physical evidence for any of it, in the flesh.

The instant we perceive temptations/lusts/deceptions are in fact of the tempter who has been granted his hold in the flesh through these/workings, then we have pinned down the culprit, and practice separation from our adversary, thereIN. It should and WILL Spiritually repulse us to be enslaved. But to say the attempts are not there is fruitless. Indwelling sin and evil present with us in the flesh PROVE the attempts are ever present in the flesh.

How many are willing to justify our adversary? Many more will be led to deny it happens because of that adversary working in their own flesh. Or even worse, to justify that adversarial working therein by denying they have it.

Eph. 6:12

Some will see the dilemma. Most won't.

Who is trying to justify the flesh, but only those who have not Gods Spirit dwelling in them. People love to blame Satan (and no there is no justification there either) for all the wrong in their life, but it is those who live by the lust of the flesh that will never see the kingdom of God.

 

[JLB]

The instant we perceive temptations/lusts/deceptions are in fact of the tempter who has been granted his hold in the flesh through these/workings, then we have pinned down the culprit, and practice separation from our adversary, thereIN. It should and WILL Spiritually repulse us to be enslaved. But to say the attempts are not there is fruitless. Indwelling sin and evil present with us in the flesh PROVE the attempts are ever present in the flesh.

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. James 4:7


So much for your "theory".



JLB

 

[Chopper]

We know the flesh is contrary to the Spirit and if you are walking in the Spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh as we who are in Christ have crucified the flesh. We have victory over the flesh when we are aware of its sinful nature and seek to walk after the Spirit,Galatians 5:16-26.

We reap what we sow whether we reap in the flesh which brings corruption or we sow in the Spirit and reap everlasting life, Galatians 6:7, 8. We can be optimistic that we are no longer indebted to the flesh or condemned by it as we are crucified with Christ through baptism into His death. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin and death, Romans 8:1-17.

As a child of God we no longer mind the things of the flesh as we set our affection on things from above where Christ sits on the right hand of God. We destroy that of the flesh as it is no longer our master that brings us to the bondage of sin as we are set free from that bondage when we put on Christ and walk in His Spirit that dwells in our spirit. Love has fulfilled the law which brought us into the knowledge of sin as we no longer are slaves to the law as love has fulfilled and we are joint heirs with Christ therefore we are saved by grace. Colossians chapter 3; Ephesians 2:5.

Thank you for your post. You reminded me of one of my favorate passages....
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[ezrider]

Thank you for your post. You reminded me of one of my favorate passages....
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

If I may Chopper, in light of these scriptures that you have posted here (Romans 8:1-10), let me touch on something that you brought into this topic earlier: Divorce. Is divorce a sin against the flesh or is it a sin against the Spirit? Likewise, is gay marriage a sin against the flesh or is it a sin against the Spirit?. I would say that they are sins of the flesh. After all, Jesus said in the resurrection they neither marry or are given in marriage (Matthew 22:30). So since the resurrection is of the Spirit, I would then have to conclude that these are in fact sins of the flesh.

Because the carnal mind (flesh) is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So, if one who calls themselves a Christian, but occupies themselves with condemning gay marriage or divorce in the flesh, could you say that the person calling themselves a Christian was truly free of the law of sin and death? There is now no more condemnation... so why play the role of the accuser?

 

[ezrider]

Paul said it this way to the Ephesians - nor give place to the devil.

And what does it mean to not give place to the devil?

 

[reba]

Man's justification of sin does not make less a sin...
Marriage is something more then just our flesh.. ( it should be) Mariage is a picture of Christ and the Church.. sins against the body carry a different weight
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Justifying sin IOM is giving place to the devil

 

[Malachi]

And what does it mean to not give place to the devil?

Don't allow the devil to influence you, manipulate you, and cause you to sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What we're seeing represented here in this thread are the beliefs of the hyper-grace movement in the church. Which is just another strain of OSAS doctrine. In general, it says that the believer's sin dwells in the body, and because of that 'factual reality', which they say you can do nothing about, it has no affect on one's salvation, which is only spiritual anyway.

The problem with that belief is that when sin in the 'believer' is the result of a loss of faith in the forgiveness of God that person's sin does in fact affect whether or not they will be saved on the Day of Judgement, because salvation is in fact based on faith. In the hyper-grace doctrine, sin, and the responsibility for sin, is rationalized away as just being a factual nuisance that God knows about that you can do nothing about and which has no bearing on the salvation of the person because it's the spirit of a person that gets saved anyway.

 

[JLB]

And what does it mean to not give place to the devil?

Don't give the devil access to you.

Don't put yourself in a position, for the devil to have access to influence or oppress you.

Example:

Don't go into a strip club.

Don't go to bars, where nothing good can come of it.

Don't go were people are walking in the flesh; ie - Marti Gras.

Don't watch porn.

Don't go to a party where there is drugs and alcohol.

Anything that stimulates the lustful desires of the flesh, whereby you are tempted to sin, stay away from these things.

When you sin, you have opened the door or given access to the enemy.

Don'y have objects in your home that gives the devil a right to come in your home.

Ouigi boards, pentagrams, certain books,... Anything of the kingdom of darkness, that gives the devil place within your home.

In addition, anything that belongs to someone who serves the devil. It may be something at a garage sale, or a resale shop, that someone who served the devil owned or used in incantations or ceremonies, that you are unaware of.

When people have problems with their children, especially with children having nightmares or waking up in fear and anxiety, this is usually the problem.

Most Christians have no idea about occult items, or even certain dolls and such and they bring them in their home and the unsuspecting children fall prey.


12 “If you hear someone in one of your cities, which the Lord your God gives you to dwell in, saying, 13 ‘Corrupt men have gone out from among you and enticed the inhabitants of their city, saying, “Let us go and serve other gods”’—which you have not known—14 then you shall inquire, search out, and ask diligently. And if it is indeed true and certain that such an abomination was committed among you, 15 you shall surely strike the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying it, all that is in it and its livestock—with the edge of the sword. 16 And you shall gather all its plunder into the middle of the street, and completely burn with fire the city and all its plunder, for the Lord your God. It shall be a heap forever; it shall not be built again.17 So none of the accursed things shall remain in your hand, that the Lord may turn from the fierceness of His anger and show you mercy, have compassion on you and multiply you, just as He swore to your fathers, 18 because you have listened to the voice of the Lord your God, to keep all His commandments which I command you today, to do what is right in the eyes of the Lord your God. Deuteronomy 13:12-18


See Joshua 7 and the battle of Ai.


We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We can be compliant on the outside and disobedient on the inside.

"He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous." (1 John 3:7 NIV)

When things are not right on the outside it shows that things are not right on the inside. The doctrine that teaches that the 'contrariness' between what you are on the inside and what you are on the outside is okay because that's just the way things are by God's design ignores what Jesus said about the matter:

"First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean." (Matthew 23:26 NIV)

IOW, it's impossible to rationalize a dirty cup as being clean on the inside. But that is what the hyper-grace doctrine does. What you are on the outside is a direct reflection of what you are on the inside. No amount of grace changes that truth. You're only as good on the outside as you are on the inside.

 

[ezrider]

Don't give the devil access to you.

Don't put yourself in a position, for the devil to have access to influence or oppress you.

Example:

Don't go into a strip club.

Don't go to bars, where nothing good can come of it.

Don't go were people are walking in the flesh; ie - Marti Gras.

Don't watch porn.

Don't go to a party where there is drugs and alcohol.

Anything that stimulates the lustful desires of the flesh, whereby you are tempted to sin, stay away from these things.

When you sin, you have opened the door or given access to the enemy.

Don'y have objects in your home that gives the devil a right to come in your home.

Ouigi boards, pentagrams, certain books,... Anything of the kingdom of darkness, that gives the devil place within your home.

In addition, anything that belongs to someone who serves the devil. It may be something at a garage sale, or a resale shop, that someone who served the devil owned or used in incantations or ceremonies, that you are unaware of.

When people have problems with their children, especially with children having nightmares or waking up in fear and anxiety, this is usually the problem.

Most Christians have no idea about occult items, or even certain dolls and such and they bring them in their home and the unsuspecting children fall prey.


12 “If you hear someone in one of your cities, which the Lord your God gives you to dwell in, saying, 13 ‘Corrupt men have gone out from among you and enticed the inhabitants of their city, saying, “Let us go and serve other gods”’—which you have not known—14 then you shall inquire, search out, and ask diligently. And if it is indeed true and certain that such an abomination was committed among you, 15 you shall surely strike the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying it, all that is in it and its livestock—with the edge of the sword. 16 And you shall gather all its plunder into the middle of the street, and completely burn with fire the city and all its plunder, for the Lord your God. It shall be a heap forever; it shall not be built again.17 So none of the accursed things shall remain in your hand, that the Lord may turn from the fierceness of His anger and show you mercy, have compassion on you and multiply you, just as He swore to your fathers, 18 because you have listened to the voice of the Lord your God, to keep all His commandments which I command you today, to do what is right in the eyes of the Lord your God. Deuteronomy 13:12-18


See Joshua 7 and the battle of Ai.


We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18



JLB

Don't, don't, don't, don't..........

It seems to me that with all of those don'ts you spend and awful lot of time giving place to the devil. If your eyes are focused on Christ there is no room to give place to the devil.
.

 

[GodsGrace]

I love Philippians 4:8

 

[GodsGrace]

I love Philippians 4:8

 

[Chopper]

If I may Chopper, in light of these scriptures that you have posted here (Romans 8:1-10), let me touch on something that you brought into this topic earlier: Divorce. Is divorce a sin against the flesh or is it a sin against the Spirit? Likewise, is gay marriage a sin against the flesh or is it a sin against the Spirit?. I would say that they are sins of the flesh. After all, Jesus said in the resurrection they neither marry or are given in marriage (Matthew 22:30). So since the resurrection is of the Spirit, I would then have to conclude that these are in fact sins of the flesh.

Because the carnal mind (flesh) is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So, if one who calls themselves a Christian, but occupies themselves with condemning gay marriage or divorce in the flesh, could you say that the person calling themselves a Christian was truly free of the law of sin and death? There is now no more condemnation... so why play the role of the accuser?

Gay marriage and divorce are two area's of the desire of the flesh that God hates. They are already under condemnation because of how God views these flesh desires. As a Christian, I am to....
2Timothy4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[Chopper]

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. James 4:7


So much for your "theory".



JLB

I think the secret is in the verse you quoted, "but he who has been born of God keeps himself, If he doesn't "keep himself" then Smaller is right.

 

[Chopper]

And what does it mean to not give place to the devil?

We give place to the devil when a desire is presented to us from the desire of the flesh, desire of the eyes, and the desire to feed my pride. If I succumb to the energy of the flesh, and follow that desire, I have given place to the devil.

 

[Chopper]

What we're seeing represented here in this thread are the beliefs of the hyper-grace movement in the church. Which is just another strain of OSAS doctrine. In general, it says that the believer's sin dwells in the body, and because of that 'factual reality', which they say you can do nothing about, it has no affect on one's salvation, which is only spiritual anyway.

The problem with that belief is that when sin in the 'believer' is the result of a loss of faith in the forgiveness of God that person's sin does in fact affect whether or not they will be saved on the Day of Judgement, because salvation is in fact based on faith. In the hyper-grace doctrine, sin, and the responsibility for sin, is rationalized away as just being a factual nuisance that God knows about that you can do nothing about and which has no bearing on the salvation of the person because it's the spirit of a person that gets saved anyway.

Jethro, do you think that those who make a profession of faith in Jesus for Salvation, but lack the faith to believe that their sins are forgiven is a real activity?

 

[Chopper]

Don't give the devil access to you.

Don't put yourself in a position, for the devil to have access to influence or oppress you.

Example:

Don't go into a strip club.

Don't go to bars, where nothing good can come of it.

Don't go were people are walking in the flesh; ie - Marti Gras.

Don't watch porn.

Don't go to a party where there is drugs and alcohol.

Anything that stimulates the lustful desires of the flesh, whereby you are tempted to sin, stay away from these things.

When you sin, you have opened the door or given access to the enemy.

Don'y have objects in your home that gives the devil a right to come in your home.

Ouigi boards, pentagrams, certain books,... Anything of the kingdom of darkness, that gives the devil place within your home.

In addition, anything that belongs to someone who serves the devil. It may be something at a garage sale, or a resale shop, that someone who served the devil owned or used in incantations or ceremonies, that you are unaware of.

When people have problems with their children, especially with children having nightmares or waking up in fear and anxiety, this is usually the problem.

Most Christians have no idea about occult items, or even certain dolls and such and they bring them in their home and the unsuspecting children fall prey.


12 “If you hear someone in one of your cities, which the Lord your God gives you to dwell in, saying, 13 ‘Corrupt men have gone out from among you and enticed the inhabitants of their city, saying, “Let us go and serve other gods”’—which you have not known—14 then you shall inquire, search out, and ask diligently. And if it is indeed true and certain that such an abomination was committed among you, 15 you shall surely strike the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying it, all that is in it and its livestock—with the edge of the sword. 16 And you shall gather all its plunder into the middle of the street, and completely burn with fire the city and all its plunder, for the Lord your God. It shall be a heap forever; it shall not be built again.17 So none of the accursed things shall remain in your hand, that the Lord may turn from the fierceness of His anger and show you mercy, have compassion on you and multiply you, just as He swore to your fathers, 18 because you have listened to the voice of the Lord your God, to keep all His commandments which I command you today, to do what is right in the eyes of the Lord your God. Deuteronomy 13:12-18


See Joshua 7 and the battle of Ai.


We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18



JLB

Thanks JLB for that list of things to stay away from. Boy, you take all the fun out of life, LOL. Seriously, yours is a very good reply, Bravo!

 

[Chopper]

Don't, don't, don't, don't..........

It seems to me that with all of those don'ts you spend and awful lot of time giving place to the devil. If your eyes are focused on Christ there is no room to give place to the devil.
.

I would say that this person is focused on Jesus the Son of God because He doesn't want His children in places where sin abounds.

EZ my friend. I wish you would see two sides of these issues found in this thread. You seem to only focus on one, the flesh. How about the Spirit??????????????

 

[grams]

What was the CROSS ALL ABOUT ???????????