Bible Study SO YOU THINK YOU ARE SAVED.

[JLB]

Yes, anyone who is still 'in the flesh' is under the authority of the law to arouse sin in them and condemn them for that sin.

How in the world can a Gentile living in Ethiopia, who has never heard the Gospel, and has no idea who Moses is, be under the law of Moses, especially since it has been abolished and nailed to the cross?

I don't want to argue with you about the law Jethro, because that's not what this thread is about.

You don't just get to make up a term that is not in the bible, and apply it, to try and prop up your theory.

Let's take this discussion back to your your Romans 7 thread, and we can go round and round some more about the law of Moses.



But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Romans 7:23

Sin dwells in our physical body, and this sin desires to gratify itself, by unrighteous deeds.

This is the same body, and the same sin that dwells in my flesh body, I had before I was saved, and it exists now and will continue to exist, until this body dies and is resurrected from the dead.

19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.” Galatians 2:19-21

What I have now is a spirit made alive and empowered by the Holy Spirit, which I can now employ against the deeds of the sinful flesh.



JLB

 

[Chopper]

Continued................

Ok, now lets get right to the meat of this thread. "So You Think You Are Saved".

Back to Howard and Denise our married couple who were planning on a divorce. They were both Christians, attending the First Baptist Church of which I was the Pastor. The great theme of our Church was the Family. Probably my main focus other than Salvation was godly families. I did a lot of family counseling in the homes as well as husband and wife counseling sessions.

Howard and Denise were familiar with my teaching on marriage and divorce. Only for adultery, fornication. Both had been faithful to each other so there were no biblical grounds for their divorcing. My counsel centered on the consequences of their divorce and that's what this thread is all about. I told them that they had made very serious vows and promises to each other, in front of a man of God, more importantly, to God!! If they divorced, trouble would come their way because they would be sinning against a Holy God Who bound the two of them into one.

I told them there would be consequences that each one of them would have to endure for a long time unless the reconciled and remarried. Listen my friends, we know that we shouldn't sin. God has equipped us with a changed nature, a new creation, and power over sin so that we don't have to sin unless our desires take over. It comes down to I want what I want and somehow justify sin and do it. Consequences? we got away with it last time with no spanking from God so we'll get away with it.

Howard and Denise did get a divorce and everything looked like it was the right thing for them to do. Both were happy going their separate ways. They had two high school boys. one a senior and the other a junior. Howard and Denise did not know that their two son's were devastated by the divorce and having to visit their parents in two different locations. The boys became pawns in a match to see which parent they would visit the most...tragic!!

The older boy got into drugs and was in serious trouble with the Law for several years. The younger son molested a nephew which caused a lot of trouble in the family at large. Denise has struggled financially even now. Howard has had health problems as well as mental difficulities. I say all of this to say CONSEQUENCES. opps, SOMETHING HAPPENED AND THIS REPLIED BY ITSELF. i'LL START A NEW PAGE.

 

[GodsGrace]

It's the unequally yoked that causes many to divorce. Would God expect me to stay with an abusive husband that tried to kill me, or would He help me get out of that marriage? Without going into great detail I know it was God who made a way for me to escape my oppressor.

Many seem to pick and choose one scripture to make their point, but we have to compare scripture with scripture, OT with NT as we need the whole and not just the parts that make sense to the carnal mind. This is not to put you down or come against what you believe as I would never do that, but is how we are to study Gods word. I use to believe everything that came out from the pulpit for after all the Pastor is suppose to teach us as the Holy Spirit teaches them. With so many theories on how others teach we find so many conflicting and confusing teachings. When I started to not listen to man, but to discern the spirit that was teaching me I found many teachings of man to be false. I had to get to the place where I started studying Gods word by first praying and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal truth that my Spiritual eyes were opened to truth. One has to have the whole and not just the parts to understand what God has already said.

I have a full class I teach on marriage and divorce on my website that will explain in full detail of that which I have already posted if you would care to read it. Just click on the link at the bottom of my post.

Hi FHG

I'll be reading your site tomorrow morning. It's late here.
Of course, I didn't mean my question to be personal. I was hoping you'd explain your understanding of the difference between what Jesus said about divorce and what Paul said about divorce with the unequally yoked. Jesus never mentioned this. I know many couples who are such, and they get along fine. I know couples who are both christian and they have real problems. I mean, IS IT okay to leave one that is unequally yoked? Or do we make an effort and stay in the marriage as a witness?
This is a general question and should not be taken personally. If your experience doesn't make this possible, then I apologize and please don't answer.

Wondering

 

[Chopper]

I'm back...."Consequences. Lets look at this important Scripture which is the foundation of my thoughts here....
Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

So you think you are saved? The reality of these Scriptures are, if we can go on sinning without any repercussions, then chances are, we are not saved. At this point, I imagine that there will be a lot of posts about the process of sinning. How much sin constitutes a lifestyle of sin, and therefore not saved. JLB has, in the past, posted a lot of important teachings in this area. He has mentioned Romans 7 & 8 as dealing with our new nature not to sin. Hopefully he will add some information.

I have used marriage and divorce as a main example and I don't want anyone to think I'm looking down on anyone who has gone thru the heart wrenching tragedy of a divorce. I'm simply pointing out a sin against God's joining two people in marriage, and man breaking that bond, and the consequences of that act.

I'll leave the marriage example and move on to the 10 Commandments of God, and the Commands of Jesus the Son of God in Matthew Chapter 5.

To be continued....

 

[ezrider]

Continued................

Ok, now lets get right to the meat of this thread. "So You Think You Are Saved".

Back to Howard and Denise our married couple who were planning on a divorce. They were both Christians, attending the First Baptist Church of which I was the Pastor. The great theme of our Church was the Family. Probably my main focus other than Salvation was godly families. I did a lot of family counseling in the homes as well as husband and wife counseling sessions.

Howard and Denise were familiar with my teaching on marriage and divorce. Only for adultery, fornication. Both had been faithful to each other so there were no biblical grounds for their divorcing. My counsel centered on the consequences of their divorce and that's what this thread is all about. I told them that they had made very serious vows and promises to each other, in front of a man of God, more importantly, to God!! If they divorced, trouble would come their way because they would be sinning against a Holy God Who bound the two of them into one.

I told them there would be consequences that each one of them would have to endure for a long time unless the reconciled and remarried. Listen my friends, we know that we shouldn't sin. God has equipped us with a changed nature, a new creation, and power over sin so that we don't have to sin unless our desires take over. It comes down to I want what I want and somehow justify sin and do it. Consequences? we got away with it last time with no spanking from God so we'll get away with it.

Howard and Denise did get a divorce and everything looked like it was the right thing for them to do. Both were happy going their separate ways. They had two high school boys. one a senior and the other a junior. Howard and Denise did not know that their two son's were devastated by the divorce and having to visit their parents in two different locations. The boys became pawns in a match to see which parent they would visit the most...tragic!!

The older boy got into drugs and was in serious trouble with the Law for several years. The younger son molested a nephew which caused a lot of trouble in the family at large. Denise has struggled financially even now. Howard has had health problems as well as mental difficulities. I say all of this to say CONSEQUENCES. opps, SOMETHING HAPPENED AND THIS REPLIED BY ITSELF. i'LL START A NEW PAGE.

"I say all of this to say CONSEQUENCES"

Chopper, I am sorry, but I do not agree with your reasoning here. You are suggestion that all these things befell them because they "sinned." Perhaps it was, or perhaps it was just coincidence. As I was reading your comment I kept thinking about the scripture about the tower that fell on some people and killed them.

Luke 13:1-5
There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Now I know absolutely nothing about marriage counseling, nor have I ever really counseled anyone for that matter; but I have been divorced, so I've been through the experience, and now have knowledge of divorce first hand: And yet His Grace is greater. Consequence? There would have been consequences either way.

But there is something that you said, or rather something that you did that I hope you might consider with me: "I told them there would be consequences."

You told them there would be consequences. Many many years ago while I was still married, my wife at the time had blamed me for cursing her. That by my spoken words I had caused God's curse to come upon her. Well that bothered me, but I have thought upon that statement, could I have caused God's curse to come upon someone? Well, I was much less mature in my Faith back then as I am now, but the idea about bringing the curse upon someone has taken a much deeper sense. Through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, we have been set free from the curse of the law, Jesus being made a curse for us (Galatians 3:13).

John 8:7-11
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last:and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Jesus said neither do I condemn you: go and sin no more. Jesus did not say go and sin no more, or there will be consequences.

John 5:44-47
How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words.

Now I can only base this on the example that you have given, so this is not meant to be anything other than an observation about this one example. So with that in mind, if you will recall my earlier post in this thread where I asked about legalism, or law versus grace. In the example that you give, you counseled from a standpoint of the law, and not one of grace. You counseled on what is sinful according to the law, and as with the law, you informed them of the consequences for sinning against the law. So now I ask you to consider, did you counsel them away from trusting to their faith in the Lord, or did you instead bring them back under the law, and by consequences, the curse of the law.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 54:6-10
For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit,
and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
For a small moment have I forsaken thee;
but with great mercies will I gather thee.
In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment;
but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee,
saith the Lord thy Redeemer.
For this is as the waters of Noah unto me:
for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth;
so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
For the mountains shall depart,
and the hills be removed;
but my kindness shall not depart from thee,
neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed,
saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.

Revelation 22:3
And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him.

I hope I haven't rambled on too long. But if I am dead to the law through Christ, why would I then try and bring someone back under the curse from which I have been set free. Consequences, why there are always consequences. Did you plant a seed of doubt in their faith in Christ's salvation by instructing them in the consequences of God's curse, and therefore their troubles befell them? Again, who is to say. Who knows how the story might have turned out had you blessed them instead, asked them to search their hearts for the Lord's will, and bid them to remain strong in the faith as new troubles will surely arrive as they walk away from old ones? Go, and sin no more.

.

 

[JLB]

"I say all of this to say CONSEQUENCES"

Chopper, I am sorry, but I do not agree with your reasoning here. You are suggestion that all these things befell them because they "sinned." Perhaps it was, or perhaps it was just coincidence. As I was reading your comment I kept thinking about the scripture about the tower that fell on some people and killed them.

Luke 13:1-5
There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Now I know absolutely nothing about marriage counseling, nor have I ever really counseled anyone for that matter; but I have been divorced, so I've been through the experience, and now have knowledge of divorce first hand: And yet His Grace is greater. Consequence? There would have been consequences either way.

But there is something that you said, or rather something that you did that I hope you might consider with me: "I told them there would be consequences."

You told them there would be consequences. Many many years ago while I was still married, my wife at the time had blamed me for cursing her. That by my spoken words I had caused God's curse to come upon her. Well that bothered me, but I have thought upon that statement, could I have caused God's curse to come upon someone? Well, I was much less mature in my Faith back then as I am now, but the idea about bringing the curse upon someone has taken a much deeper sense. Through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, we have been set free from the curse of the law, Jesus being made a curse for us (Galatians 3:13).

John 8:7-11
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last:and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Jesus said neither do I condemn you: go and sin no more. Jesus did not say go and sin no more, or there will be consequences.

John 5:44-47
How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words.

Now I can only base this on the example that you have given, so this is not meant to be anything other than an observation about this one example. So with that in mind, if you will recall my earlier post in this thread where I asked about legalism, or law versus grace. In the example that you give, you counseled from a standpoint of the law, and not one of grace. You counseled on what is sinful according to the law, and as with the law, you informed them of the consequences for sinning against the law. So now I ask you to consider, did you counsel them away from trusting to their faith in the Lord, or did you instead bring them back under the law, and by consequences, the curse of the law.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 54:6-10
For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit,
and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
For a small moment have I forsaken thee;
but with great mercies will I gather thee.
In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment;
but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee,
saith the Lord thy Redeemer.
For this is as the waters of Noah unto me:
for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth;
so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
For the mountains shall depart,
and the hills be removed;
but my kindness shall not depart from thee,
neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed,
saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.

Revelation 22:3
And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him.

I hope I haven't rambled on too long. But if I am dead to the law through Christ, why would I then try and bring someone back under the curse from which I have been set free. Consequences, why there are always consequences. Did you plant a seed of doubt in their faith in Christ's salvation by instructing them in the consequences of God's curse, and therefore their troubles befell them? Again, who is to say. Who knows how the story might have turned out had you blessed them instead, asked them to search their hearts for the Lord's will, and bid them to remain strong in the faith as new troubles will surely arrive as they walk away from old ones? Go, and sin no more.

Do you believe people who are married, with teenage children can divorce for no biblical reason, without consequences...?


Here is a scripture that may balance what you are saying.

...but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

The enemy desires to destroy our families and children... through divorce.

5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 1 Timothy 3:5


JLB

 

[ezrider]

So you think you are saved?

So you think you are saved? Well lets reflect upon that for a moment or two. For if we are saved, then we know the verses wondering said were among her favorite would have come to pass. That by his Spirit he would write his laws in our hearts.

Jeremiah 31:33-34
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the Lord,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
and write it in their hearts;
and will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the Lord:for they shall all know me,
from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord:
for I will forgive their iniquity,
and I will remember their sin no more.

2 Corinthians 3:2-3
Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

You ask, so you think you are saved? I ask how does the Spirit write his laws in our hearts? As much as we may try, we can not write his laws into our own hearts by memorizing the words of the Bible. Anyone can pick up the scriptures and quote a verse. But in quoting that verse they have not share their understanding or what is in their heart, because I will always hear that verse according to my understanding. So how then might we be able to tell if the word is truly written upon our heart?

 

[ezrider]

Do you believe people who are married, with teenage children can divorce for no biblical reason, without consequences...?

As I said, there are always consequences: Alimony, child support, etc....

 

[Malachi]

So how then might we be able to tell if the word is truly written upon our heart?

Actions speak louder than words. What saith the Scripture?
And Jesus (1) went about all Galilee, (2) teaching in their synagogues, and (3) preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and (4) healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. (Matthew 4:23).

Therefore we read in Ephesians 2:10:
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[reba]

As I said, there are always consequences: Alimony, child support, etc....

those are the more simple consequences ...
there are broken hearts of Kids ... spouses .. grandparents ... kids often bounced around like a ping pong ball ... learning how to fail and cheapen grace

a witness that say My God was not big enough to fix this problem.. So i did it MY way..

Before anyone throws rocks at me.. people i love and respect are divorced .. Also i am speaking at the concept not persons..
another point on my head i have different thoughts or standards about Christians divorcing and remarrying then non christians..

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Chopper, I am sorry, but I do not agree with your reasoning here. You are suggestion that all these things befell them because they "sinned."

He's not speaking out of turn...

14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.” (John 5:14 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So how then might we be able to tell if the word is truly written upon our heart?

You are obeying it. That's how.

"14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law...they show the work of the Law written in their hearts" (Romans 2:14-15 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I hope I haven't rambled on too long. But if I am dead to the law through Christ, why would I then try and bring someone back under the curse from which I have been set free.

You don't come under the curse of the law by reading it, or teaching it to someone else, or by wanting to do it. You come under the curse of the law when you break it.

I started the Romans 7 thread to address this very misunderstanding that virtually everyone has in the church about the law (thanks to the early Catholic Church). So many think the curse of the law went away because the law went away (which it did not). But Paul says the curse of the law went away because our sin nature went away. The sin nature is how and why the law aroused sin in us. But now that it has been put to death in Christ, the law no longer has the hook in us that it once did to arouse sin in us anymore.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I have used marriage and divorce as a main example and I don't want anyone to think I'm looking down on anyone who has gone thru the heart wrenching tragedy of a divorce. I'm simply pointing out a sin against God's joining two people in marriage, and man breaking that bond, and the consequences of that act.

Here is a specific example of how one will suffer if they do not honor their marriage:
7 You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered." (1 Peter 3:7 NASB)

Men lose God's pleasure and favor when you do not honor your marriage (certainly there is similar lose of favor for women who hate their husbands):
13“This is another thing you do: you cover the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping and with groaning, because He no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand. 14“Yet you say, ‘For what reason?’ Because the LORD has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. 15“But not one has done so who has a remnant of the Spirit. And what did that one do while he was seeking a godly offspring? Take heed then to your spirit, and let no one deal treacherously against the wife of your youth.16“For I hate divorce,” says the LORD, the God of Israel, “and him who covers his garment with wrong,” says the LORD of hosts. “So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.”

Want to be removed from God's manifest blessings for you in this life? Don't obey him. Live in sin:
"21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”" (John 14:21 NASB)
But so many Christians insist God's manifest love and presence is not conditioned on what you do right or wrong.


Here's what God says to do to have his benefits, and what those benefits are:

6“Is this not the fast which I choose,
To loosen the bonds of wickedness,
To undo the bands of the yoke,
And to let the oppressed go free
And break every yoke?

7“Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry
And bring the homeless poor into the house;
When you see the naked, to cover him;
And not to hide yourself from your own flesh?

8“Then your light will break out like the dawn,
And your recovery will speedily spring forth;
And your righteousness will go before you;
The glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.

9“Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
You will cry, and He will say, ‘Here I am.’
If you remove the yoke from your midst,
The pointing of the finger and speaking wickedness,

10And if you give yourself to the hungry
And satisfy the desire of the afflicted,
Then your light will rise in darkness
And your gloom will become like midday.

11“And the LORD will continually guide you,
And satisfy your desire in scorched places,
And give strength to your bones;
And you will be like a watered garden,
And like a spring of water whose waters do not fail.
(Isaiah 58:6-11 NASB)

The problem is, these words fall on deaf ears in this age of hyper-grace where it is taught and believed that nothing you do matters at all, because if it did that would be works. Little knowing that God's manifest blessings are conditioned on your obedience. Your justification is not conditioned on your obedience. Entering into and enjoying the abundance He has reserved for his people is.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Honestly, I wonder if the church will ever come back to what the Bible actually says.

 

[GodsGrace]

EZRider mentioned one of my favorite verses.
Jeremiah 31:33
The chapter is speaking to how God will restore Israel. He will be the God of all tribes (clans). The Israelites had been taken captive - they were "slaves" like the Jews were in Egypt. But God loved them with an everlasting love and he'd build them up so they could go dancing and be joyful.

What will cause this change?

In the Sinai God wrote the commandments on stone.
It'a direct, outward and cold action.
Do this, do that. How could anybody possibly keep all these rules?

In the New Covenant, Jeremiah 31:33 God will write the laws on the heart.
A loving and warm action.
When the heart understands something, you're willing TO DO it.

If somebody tells me there's a needy child in the next town over and I should go help him, yeah, I know I should go - but it's difficult, I may not have the time, I may not understand the need, I may not be willing to put forth the effort.

If I SEE AND KNOW the child and comprehend his needs I'll be much more willing to be of help and will make that effort and take the time.

We have SEEN Jesus, we have seen God, we know Him, we are willing to make the effort, to take the time.

What is written on stone could not be kept
What is written on the heart could be kept.

But we'll still sin. Jesus said to be perfect. This is a goal, He knew we couldn't be perfect. Example:
The Rich Young Man
Mark 10:17-23
Does Jesus want us to sell everything and be poor? No. He knew that selling material things would be the rich man's stumbling block - the one thing he could not do. We all will stumble in life and many times. But God sees our heart now and this is where grace comes in. Grace will judge us and not the law.

But we still have to keep the law. I personally don't know of any church that teaches you could continue sinning. What Jethro says is very disconcerting to me. If you love God you want to keep His commandments MORE not less!

Reba in post 130 explained consequences well. In the O.T. God always told of the blessings and the curses. The curses are the consequences. There are always consequences to doing the wrong thing. What would happen if you showed up to work late every morning? The boss might love you a lot but eventually he'd have to do something about it - if for nothing else just so that EVERYONE won't start coming in late. It's the same idea.

I don't even like when people say that God Did This. No, it's the fact that you didn't obey HIS LAW that Did This. It's a natural result.

There are laws. If you don't follow those laws there are consequences.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

deleted - duplicate

 

[GodsGrace]

So you think you are saved? Well lets reflect upon that for a moment or two. For if we are saved, then we know the verses wondering said were among her favorite would have come to pass. That by his Spirit he would write his laws in our hearts.

Jeremiah 31:33-34
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the Lord,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
and write it in their hearts;
and will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the Lord:for they shall all know me,
from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord:
for I will forgive their iniquity,
and I will remember their sin no more.

2 Corinthians 3:2-3
Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

You ask, so you think you are saved? I ask how does the Spirit write his laws in our hearts? As much as we may try, we can not write his laws into our own hearts by memorizing the words of the Bible. Anyone can pick up the scriptures and quote a verse. But in quoting that verse they have not share their understanding or what is in their heart, because I will always hear that verse according to my understanding. So how then might we be able to tell if the word is truly written upon our heart?

Hi EZRider

I don't think all verses in the bible are written on the heart - although that would be nice. I have trouble just knowing them in my mind!

When I quote Jeremiah, I'm specifically referring to THE LAW. The commandments. The natural law.

Your last sentence above is:
But in quoting that verse they have not share their understanding or what is in their heart, because I will always hear that verse according to my understanding. So how then might we be able to tell if the word is truly written upon our heart?

We may, on these threads, realize that maybe we each have a slightly different idea on what a particular scripture teaches - I think the main point in reading the bible is to get to know God better and get to know what He WANTS from us better. Not just to memorize verses or try to understand exactly what they theologically mean. It's good to know the simple and practical meaning too.

But it's the LAW that will be written on the heart. Jesus did not come to abolish the law. He actually made it MORE difficult!
Mathew 5:19
Mathew 5:22
Mathew 5:28

You quote 2 Corinthians 3:2-3 Same idea.

So, yeah, you don't write the laws into your own heart by knowing verses,
But by keeping your eyes on Jesus, He who died for our sins.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

You don't come under the curse of the law by reading it, or teaching it to someone else, or by wanting to do it. You come under the curse of the law when you break it.

I started the Romans 7 thread to address this very misunderstanding that virtually everyone has in the church about the law (thanks to the early Catholic Church). So many think the curse of the law went away because the law went away (which it did not). But Paul says the curse of the law went away because our sin nature went away. The sin nature is how and why the law aroused sin in us. But now that it has been put to death in Christ, the law no longer has the hook in us that it once did to arouse sin in us anymore.

Jethro

What do you think of Mathew 5:19, Mathew 5:22 and Mathew 5:28

I'm referring to your first sentence saying that we come under the law when we break it.
Is this what Jesus taught?
Is wanting to do something the same as doing it in God's eyes?
Do we sin in thought?

If we just THINK a sin - are there consequences?

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi EZ

Sorry, I thought this was important.

In your post no. 125 you wrote:
Jesus said neither do I condemn you: go and sin no more. Jesus did not say go and sin no more, or there will be consequences.

Some things have to be understood by inference. You can't expect that Jesus or Paul or any of the writers would have to say each and every word or thought. They put down the important stuff and then the rest you have to understand on your own. John mentioned about how he wrote down things to which he could testify but not all or it would take books. John 21:24-25

I mean, do you think there aren't consequences??

Wondering