Continued................
Ok, now lets get right to the meat of this thread. "So You Think You Are Saved".
Back to Howard and Denise our married couple who were planning on a divorce. They were both Christians, attending the First Baptist Church of which I was the Pastor. The great theme of our Church was the Family. Probably my main focus other than Salvation was godly families. I did a lot of family counseling in the homes as well as husband and wife counseling sessions.
Howard and Denise were familiar with my teaching on marriage and divorce. Only for adultery, fornication. Both had been faithful to each other so there were no biblical grounds for their divorcing. My counsel centered on the consequences of their divorce and that's what this thread is all about. I told them that they had made very serious vows and promises to each other, in front of a man of God, more importantly, to God!! If they divorced, trouble would come their way because they would be sinning against a Holy God Who bound the two of them into one.
I told them there would be consequences that each one of them would have to endure for a long time unless the reconciled and remarried. Listen my friends, we know that we shouldn't sin. God has equipped us with a changed nature, a new creation, and power over sin so that we don't have to sin unless our desires take over. It comes down to I want what I want and somehow justify sin and do it. Consequences? we got away with it last time with no spanking from God so we'll get away with it.
Howard and Denise did get a divorce and everything looked like it was the right thing for them to do. Both were happy going their separate ways. They had two high school boys. one a senior and the other a junior. Howard and Denise did not know that their two son's were devastated by the divorce and having to visit their parents in two different locations. The boys became pawns in a match to see which parent they would visit the most...tragic!!
The older boy got into drugs and was in serious trouble with the Law for several years. The younger son molested a nephew which caused a lot of trouble in the family at large. Denise has struggled financially even now. Howard has had health problems as well as mental difficulities. I say all of this to say CONSEQUENCES. opps, SOMETHING HAPPENED AND THIS REPLIED BY ITSELF. i'LL START A NEW PAGE.
"I say all of this to say CONSEQUENCES"
Chopper, I am sorry, but I do not agree with your reasoning here. You are suggestion that all these things befell them because they "sinned." Perhaps it was, or perhaps it was just coincidence. As I was reading your comment I kept thinking about the scripture about the tower that fell on some people and killed them.
Luke 13:1-5
There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Now I know absolutely nothing about marriage counseling, nor have I ever really counseled anyone for that matter; but I have been divorced, so I've been through the experience, and now have knowledge of divorce first hand: And yet His Grace is greater. Consequence? There would have been consequences either way.
But there is something that you said, or rather something that you did that I hope you might consider with me: "I told them there would be consequences."
You told them there would be consequences. Many many years ago while I was still married, my wife at the time had blamed me for cursing her. That by my spoken words I had caused God's curse to come upon her. Well that bothered me, but I have thought upon that statement, could I have caused God's curse to come upon someone? Well, I was much less mature in my Faith back then as I am now, but the idea about bringing the curse upon someone has taken a much deeper sense. Through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, we have been set free from the curse of the law, Jesus being made a curse for us (Galatians 3:13).
John 8:7-11
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last:and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord.
And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Jesus said neither do I condemn you: go and sin no more. Jesus did not say go and sin no more, or there will be consequences.
John 5:44-47
How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words.
Now I can only base this on the example that you have given, so this is not meant to be anything other than an observation about this one example. So with that in mind, if you will recall my earlier post in this thread where I asked about legalism, or law versus grace. In the example that you give, you counseled from a standpoint of the law, and not one of grace. You counseled on what is sinful according to the law, and as with the law, you informed them of the consequences for sinning against the law. So now I ask you to consider, did you counsel them away from trusting to their faith in the Lord, or did you instead bring them back under the law, and by consequences, the curse of the law.
1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 54:6-10
For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit,
and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
For a small moment have I forsaken thee;
but with great mercies will I gather thee.
In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment;
but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee,
saith the Lord thy Redeemer.
For this is as the waters of Noah unto me:
for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth;
so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
For the mountains shall depart,
and the hills be removed;
but my kindness shall not depart from thee,
neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed,
saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.
Revelation 22:3
And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him.
I hope I haven't rambled on too long. But if I am dead to the law through Christ, why would I then try and bring someone back under the curse from which I have been set free. Consequences, why there are always consequences. Did you plant a seed of doubt in their faith in Christ's salvation by instructing them in the consequences of God's curse, and therefore their troubles befell them? Again, who is to say. Who knows how the story might have turned out had you blessed them instead, asked them to search their hearts for the Lord's will, and bid them to remain strong in the faith as new troubles will surely arrive as they walk away from old ones? Go, and sin no more.
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people i love and respect are divorced .. Also i am speaking at the concept not persons..
