Some of the serious NT warnings to the churches

[Jethro Bodine]

As an addictions counselor and one who is in a Masters program in applied psychology, I'm always fascinated when people cast others as "angry or defensive" when disgust or impatience is expressed over a proven false doctrine continually being brought up for discussion, or is defended. I'm not angry or defensive.

I'm not acting like you. If I was I'd consider myself angry and defensive. Why can't Christians respond calmly and rationally to the challenges of the faith and engage in simple, honest discussion? It makes us look so stupid in the eyes of the world. I've made my own contribution toward that end, but I can tell you I make a very serious effort to not do that anymore. I understand how calmness may not happen when the issue turns into personal attacks, but I've hardly been soliciting your defensiveness because of making this personal.

I'm simply tired of restating the obvious and dealing with the rabbit trails, false flags and other tactics designed to distract the observers of our discussion from the fact that you keep asking the same question despite them being more than adequately answered,

Well, they haven't been adequately answered. But I largely take responsibility for that since I did not bring up what's in my mind regarding the passages you shared.

And if you could refute those passages proving Jesus is responsible for our salvation, not us, you would do so now.

We all know salvation is utterly dependent on Jesus even making it possible to be saved. But why does this have to equate to making me a robot in salvation???? I didn't sense that when I got saved, and I haven't sensed it in the 27 years I've been in the faith.

You can't. You are buying time in order to do Internet research that will provide you with more false flags, smoke and mirrors and other similar distracting tactics.

God knows the truth if I'm doing that or not, and that's all that matters to me. And that's all I'm going to say in regard to that, though I could say much more about that.

The way you say things like this is, "perhaps you are buying time in order to..." That way you won't be guilty of judging improperly and injuring a brother... the thing that really counts.

So again, I'm done here. God bless you.

Well, that's your choice, but feel free to chime in again. It's a good exercise for the Christian to honestly examine everybody's view of doctrine. I've learned so much from, for example, the law keepers and the 'baptism saves' people just by taking an honest look at their argument instead of categorically rejecting it because I was told different but really couldn't defend why I sided with what I was taught. What that did is bring me out of my own indoctrinated extreme and into the truth that lies between the extremes of doctrine in the church today. And it exposed how unrighteously I handled dissenting views and how it tore the work of Christ apart, not aided it.

 

[Sparkey]

While we are yet here and await the reading of the Lambs book of Life to know fully well that our names are found there, it remains an issue of trust and faith that this will be so. The little word "if" that we find so often in the Bible is troubling to some who would like to pronounce their personal salvation a done deal. There are many great and wonderful witnesses that we each are given that profoundly support what could be rightly termed evidence of God's love for us. Still, the word states, "if we continue," and admonishes that we each pray for the other, "For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and understanding, so that you may walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects (literal - "unto all pleasing"), bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God," *Col 1:9-10

"For the hope..." see Col 1:5,23 and Tit 2:13

 

[iLOVE]

And so the Lord says, "These people say they are mine. They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. And their worship of me is nothing but man-made rules learned by rote. Isaiah 29:13 NLT

Lord Jesus speaks about this in the NT also [Matthew 15:7-9]; there are four causes of spiritual blindness recorded here:
1.Drawing near to God with the mouth only; 2. Honoring Him with the lips only; 3. Removing the heart far from Him; and, 4. Fearing Him only after the precept of men.

 

[Mitspa]

The King most assuredly saved the servant....Matt 18:27...~~"Then the lord had compassion on that slave {grace} and released him {salvation}, and forgave him the debt {he did not pay anything yet debt was cancelled}."

As believers we need to be careful. The Grudge is probably still there because most of the Sinners prayers are not faith alone in Christ alone.

And if one IS saved and one carries the grudge, one will be disciplined(divine Discipline)
Matt 18:34
18:34~~"And in anger his lord turned him over to the prison guards to torture him{divine discipline} until he repaid all he owed."

Nothing is mentioned of the Lord "taking back the initial forgiveness". Because one has accepted Gods forgiveness, He can now divinely Discipline us as Children.

1Pet 1:5...who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I see 20 post into this forum you have made some very good points and I have learned from you and drawn strength from your understanding. Now if you continue with certain folks on this forum, you will be taken in the circle of no real truth. At no point will some accept the clear and evident truth of scripture.
So I just thought you would be glad to know that others are reading your post and heeding what you are saying. But if you think certain folks are going to accept the truth? Then I am afraid you will be disappointed. The core of all spirits that work against the truth of the gospel work in two ways. Nothing of Gods grace can be accepted as is said. "did God really say" also the spirit of error always works the "circle" of never coming to any place of real truth, but always another deception manifest when one lie is exposed. This is the priciple of wearing out the saints. These spirits will attempt to frustrate the believer by a continued discussion based upon the circle of the defiled conscience in the one the spirit is working.

This is why, confrontation is often needed and the spirit of error must be judged, before repentance can come to those who have yielded to this spirit.

Blessing and wisdom from God -Mitspa

 

[Sparkey]

And so the Lord says, "These people say they are mine. They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. And their worship of me is nothing but man-made rules learned by rote. Isaiah 29:13 NLT

Lord Jesus speaks about this in the NT also [Matthew 15:7-9]; there are four causes of spiritual blindness recorded here:

• 1.Drawing near to God with the mouth only;
• 2. Honoring Him with the lips only;
• 3. Removing the heart far from Him; and,
• 4. Fearing Him only after the precept of men.

I love cooking! Finding recipes is always a blessing, isn't it? Making cookies for others has to be a joy that may be appreciated by one and all (even those on diets). But enough of the segue, let's look at the meat of the word:

Here then is a recipe found for Spiritual Blindness:

For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness

What things? Well, it starts with Faith but then to this what is added?

Add to your faith virtue...
Virtue
(From the Latin "vir," manliness)
Power (RSV)
Luke 6:19;8:46
Excellence
Philippians 4:8 ; 2 Peter 1:5
See CHASTITY
See CONTINENCE (self-control)
See COURAGE

And continuing to follow Peter's recipe for Spiritual Blindness we see:

to virtue knowledge...
Knowledge

• A divine gift (1 Corinthians 12:8)
• "Now we know in part" (1 Corinthians 13:9-12)
• Desire for (1 Kings 3:9; Psalms 119:66; Proverbs 12:1; Proverbs 15:14; Proverbs 18:15)
• Shall be increased (Daniel 12:4)
• Of good and evil (Genesis 2:9,17;3:22)
• Rejected (Hosea 4:6)
• Those who reject are destroyed (Hosea 4:6)
• Of God more than burnt offering (Hosea 6:6)
• The earth shall be full of (Isaiah 11:9)
• Key of (Luke 11:52)
• Of salvation (Luke 1:77)
• The priest's lips should keep (Malachi 2:7)
• Of Christ (Philippians 3:8)
• Fools hate (Proverbs 1:22,29)
• The fear (reverence) of the Lord is the beginning of (Proverbs 1:7)
• Is pleasant (Proverbs 2:10)
• Is power (Proverbs 3:20;24:5)
• Of more value than gold (Proverbs 8:10)

See WISDOM

We will leave the reader to his/her own devices for discovering the meanings hidden in the recipe and simply continue to quote the Cook-Book passage for Spiritual Blindness as given by Holy Spirit and penned through the fisherman, Peter:

to knowledge [add] self-control,
to self-control [add] perseverance,
to perseverance [add] godliness,
7 to godliness [add] brotherly kindness,
and to brotherly kindness [add] love.

But does Peter mention the cause of the blindness? Is there yet another nugget to be found here? There is.

For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.​

 

[Mitspa]

And so the Lord says, "These people say they are mine. They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. And their worship of me is nothing but man-made rules learned by rote. Isaiah 29:13 NLT

Lord Jesus speaks about this in the NT also [Matthew 15:7-9]; there are four causes of spiritual blindness recorded here:
1.Drawing near to God with the mouth only; 2. Honoring Him with the lips only; 3. Removing the heart far from Him; and, 4. Fearing Him only after the precept of men.

The hypocrite- pharisee, was called the blind guide.
Paul states that is is the Old Testament and the law of moses that blinds the heart and mind from seeing the truth of the gospel. 2 Cor 3 And he goes on in chapter 4 to explain that the god of this world blinds "using the law" from folks seeing the glory of Christ in the gospel. The blindess comes from the flesh and the sin in the flesh, the law strengthens this blindeness because it makes the sin exceeding sinful and gives it power over the believer. "The strength of sin is the law"

 

[iLOVE]

I love cooking! Finding recipes is always a blessing, isn't it? Making cookies for others has to be a joy that may be appreciated by one and all (even those on diets). But enough of the segue, let's look at the meat of the word:

Here then is a recipe found for Spiritual Blindness:


What things? Well, it starts with Faith but then to this what is added?


And continuing to follow Peter's recipe for Spiritual Blindness we see:


We will leave the reader to his/her own devices for discovering the meanings hidden in the recipe and simply continue to quote the Cook-Book passage for Spiritual Blindness as given by Holy Spirit and penned through the fisherman, Peter:


But does Peter mention the cause of the blindness? Is there yet another nugget to be found here? There is.

For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
​

You must believe the word of God with your heart, not just your mind. I will give some on this forum an A+ for intellectual faith. But do you Love Lord Jesus Christ? Instead they will avoid the question and began with their intellectual faith that they no more than others and Jesus really didn't mean what He said. Do you Love Him? Do you really truly Love Him? God has promise He will write his laws on your heart. God will make your heart wise with wisdom and understanding if you Love His Beloved Son with your heart.

 

[gr8grace]

While we are yet here and await the reading of the Lambs book of Life to know fully well that our names are found there, it remains an issue of trust and faith that this will be so. The little word "if" that we find so often in the Bible is troubling to some who would like to pronounce their personal salvation a done deal. There are many great and wonderful witnesses that we each are given that profoundly support what could be rightly termed evidence of God's love for us. Still, the word states, "if we continue," and admonishes that we each pray for the other, "For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and understanding, so that you may walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects (literal - "unto all pleasing"), bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God," *Col 1:9-10

"For the hope..." see Col 1:5,23 and Tit 2:13

The thing is, one can know full well that their name is in the book of life. And live in that truth. It truly pains me to see Brothers and Sisters with their fingers crossed.

Justification is not an "if"for the believer.....John 3:18~~"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Positional sanctification is not an "if"for the believer ...Eph 2:13~~But now you have been united with Christ Jesus. Once you were far away from God, but now you have been brought near to him through the blood of Christ.

The confusion comes in with experiential sanctification...This is where the "ifs" come in for believers. But it never tampers with Justification or Positional Sanctification. This is our chance to live in the Spirit or live in the old man.

IF we live in the old man, all will be burned up and we will have no rewards nor a position of rank with our Lord. We get in by the Skin of our teeth and will be naked.(no robes,crowns,precious stones)

IF we live in the Spirit and walk in the Spirit, Then we have divine good works and we build experiential sanctification to Glorify Him....which is revealing His Grace to a lost and dying world. And believers Get rewards and Crowns and rank for living and walking in the Spirit to reveal His Grace.

Then we have the "if" judged:

2 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is [to be] revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

"The foundation" in these verses is the Foundation of Christ...justification and positional Sanctification

And this is the final sanctification....Ultimate Sanctification.

What do believers have to offer the lost if we do not even have confidence in our Hope?

 

[Sparkey]

I see your question, "What do believers have to offer the lost if we do not even have confidence in our Hope?" as an invitation to debate to which I will decline except to say that it is good that we agree on the fact that believers may yet have hope, great hope, firmly placed hope. Yes.

 

[Sparkey]

You must believe the word of God with your heart, not your mind. I will give some on this forum an A+ for intellectual faith. But do you Love Lord Jesus Christ? Instead they will avoid the question and began with their intellectual faith that they no more than others and Jesus really didn't mean what He said. Do you Love Him? Do you really truly Love Him? God has promise He will write his laws on your heart. God will make your heart wise with wisdom and understanding if you Love His Beloved Son with your heart.

Agreed. Except to say that it is good to believe and love with the whole heart, the whole mind all that is mentioned in Luke 10:27.

 

[childeye]

I guess I'll jump in by saying you're all right and you're all wrong and you all can choose which one makes you the most angry or happy. I would like to say, To Joe (Francisdesalles), that I missed you very much, but that does not mean I don't Love Mitspa or thisnumberisdisconnected. Indeed I love you all but I'm feeling a bit left out because nobody has taken the time to beat me with your impressive verbal swords. So come on, let's have at it, I promise I'll only use one hand so as not to disrupt the circle we are all fighting in. So what's the issue? It doesn't matter which side I take since with the power of semantics I can argue either effectively.

 

[iLOVE]

Agreed. Except to say that it is good to believe and love with the whole heart, the whole mind all that is mentioned in Luke 10:27.

Agreed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sparkey]

I guess I'll jump in by saying you're all right and you're all wrong and you all can choose which one makes you the most angry or happy. I would like to say, To Joe (Francisdesalles), that I missed you very much, but that does not mean I don't Love Mitspa or thisnumberisdisconnected. Indeed I love you all but I'm feeling a bit left out because nobody has taken the time to beat me with your impressive verbal swords. So come on, let's have at it, I promise I'll only use one hand so as not to disrupt the circle we are all fighting in.

Greetings childeye!

Welcome and pardon my failure to advance upon you mightily with my sword, been trying to find the shield, you know the one - "In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

For in truth we are not fighting against flesh and blood, but rather are sharpening iron against iron, found within each and hopefully used for Godly purpose.

 

[Deborah13]

The thing is, one can know full well that their name is in the book of life. And live in that truth. It truly pains me to see Brothers and Sisters with their fingers crossed.

Justification is not an "if"for the believer.....John 3:18~~"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Positional sanctification is not an "if"for the believer ...Eph 2:13~~But now you have been united with Christ Jesus. Once you were far away from God, but now you have been brought near to him through the blood of Christ.

The confusion comes in with experiential sanctification...This is where the "ifs" come in for believers. But it never tampers with Justification or Positional Sanctification. This is our chance to live in the Spirit or live in the old man.

IF we live in the old man, all will be burned up and we will have no rewards nor a position of rank with our Lord. We get in by the Skin of our teeth and will be naked.(no robes,crowns,precious stones)

IF we live in the Spirit and walk in the Spirit, Then we have divine good works and we build experiential sanctification to Glorify Him....which is revealing His Grace to a lost and dying world. And believers Get rewards and Crowns and rank for living and walking in the Spirit to reveal His Grace.

Then we have the "if" judged:

2 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is [to be] revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

"The foundation" in these verses is the Foundation of Christ...justification and positional Sanctification

And this is the final sanctification....Ultimate Sanctification.

What do believers have to offer the lost if we do not even have confidence in our Hope?

This is Truth. Truth to the edification of those who believe and witness to those who do not.

 

[Deborah13]

You must believe the word of God with your heart, not just your mind. I will give some on this forum an A+ for intellectual faith. But do you Love Lord Jesus Christ? Instead they will avoid the question and began with their intellectual faith that they no more than others and Jesus really didn't mean what He said. Do you Love Him? Do you really truly Love Him? God has promise He will write his laws on your heart. God will make your heart wise with wisdom and understanding if you Love His Beloved Son with your heart.

One cannot have intellectual faith, what an oxymoron. One can believe there is a God as in Romans 1 but that is not faith in the gospel of grace.
The mind is the seat of all evil, it is the place where evil thoughts are conceived which lead to sin. It is the place where the devil can deceive. The mind cannot understand the things of the Spirit before a person is born again. God is the author of this faith, by grace and the faith He gives us to be ability to receive. Without Him doing this there is no faith as the Scriptures define faith.

 

[childeye]

Greetings childeye!

Welcome and pardon my failure to advance upon you mightily with my sword, been trying to find the shield, you know the one - "In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

For in truth we are not fighting against flesh and blood, but rather are sharpening iron against iron, found within each and hopefully used for Godly purpose.

Sparrowhawke, you can slay my flesh anytime. I appreciate that you have noticed me. Warning: I die most gruesomely with lot's of kicking and screaming. You I would fight with a feather.

Yes, I love all who participate on this forum and have grown with every exchange. I just don't like seeing peoples' feelings hurt so that they regret ever passionately expressing themselves.

 

[Sparkey]

Sparrowhawke, you can slay my flesh anytime. I appreciate that you have noticed me. Warning: I die most gruesomely with lot's of kicking and screaming. You I would fight with a feather.

Yes, I love all who participate on this forum and have grown with every exchange. I just don't like seeing peoples' feelings hurt so that they regret ever passionately expressing themselves.

How might I find a way to express my agreement to your thought more? Let me count the ways... The poet in me considers many of the great words of others, discards them, considers humble and honest response . o O (no, comes the thought).

Oh! I know.

Passion, emotion (the cause of our motion)... Yes, even zealous god-fearing and passionate expressions for the love that each of us is being lead toward, shows others what the Mind of Christ in us wants. It also shows little me and little you, awakens praise and forces us to turn our eyes upon Him. Hasten the day, my friend, hasten the day. Fear not as we consider the warnings, as we know they come from the One who has so well shown His life and love, that others may follow...

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What do believers have to offer the lost if we do not even have confidence in our Hope?

You must be using the word 'believers' loosely because by definition a believer is one whose has placed their faith and trust and confidence in the hope of Christ.

Faith (believing) is what makes the sure hope of Christ a sure hope for that person. But there is no sure hope apart from believing. No faith in Christ--no hope of salvation through Christ. We know our hope is sure if we have faith in that hope.

This is why I don't agree that believers are cast into hell. A 'believer' who is cast into hell because of 'unbelief'? That's contradictory. Their unbelief defines them as an unbeliever, not a believer.

 

[iLOVE]

One cannot have intellectual faith, what an oxymoron. One can believe there is a God as in Romans 1 but that is not faith in the gospel of grace.
The mind is the seat of all evil, it is the place where evil thoughts are conceived which lead to sin. It is the place where the devil can deceive. The mind cannot understand the things of the Spirit before a person is born again. God is the author of this faith, by grace and the faith He gives us to be ability to receive. Without Him doing this there is no faith as the Scriptures define faith.

The flesh is always ready to correct. However your spirit that has been sealed with righteousness loves his Christian Brother.

Lord Jesus ask Peter, "do you Love Me Peter"? Not at one time did Jesus bring up or ask Peter why did you deny Me. This is the heart of our Savior Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[francisdesales]

step family. monica is my step daughter and that baby is her daughter, she is about 2 now.

Jason, I thought you were younger, like 30! Maybe you just looked young in those pictures!

Congrats, Grandpa!

Take care,

Joe