Some of the serious NT warnings to the churches

[Jethro Bodine]

Well I think you should love these good things, because they do grow from ground that has been well broken. I hope to lift up others to new places of Gods love and grace with those things I write. I have also been called to defend Gods little broken ones, and protect them from false brotheren. I know that many do not understand the big deal between law and grace? But it is the difference between life and death for those it is laid upon. God has shown me the reason Paul fought so dillengently against the law being laid upon the believer. Please allow that my zeal is that which God has given me? I hope it does not take from the kindness and love I feel for Gods People.

Clarify something about what you think for me.

Does thinking you must continue in your trust in the blood of Christ (not your works) qualify as the difference between living under law and living in grace? I don't think anyone in this particular thread thinks continuing in faith, and works, are the same thing. But it appears that some of those same people believe it is not a meritorious work when you first believe (which I agree), but to continue to believe in order to have the hope of salvation is somehow a damnable gospel of law/works. Please don't preach a high horse sermon. Just share your thoughts about it.

 

[Mitspa]

So look again at 2 Peter 2:22? Do you not see that those who return to sin and the pigs wallowing is those who have turned from grace back into law. For the strength of sin is the law. This is the warning of the new testament! For those who have known the way of righteousness? What is that? the righteousness of faith! So again those who warn others, should be warning themselves! The holy commandment is what? Given upon the Mt of tranfiguration "THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, HEAR HIM" Lord open their eyes so that they can see? amen

 

[childeye]

Well I think you should love these good things, because they do grow from ground that has been well broken. I hope to lift up others to new places of Gods love and grace with those things I write. I have also been called to defend Gods little broken ones, and protect them from false brotheren. I know that many do not understand the big deal between law and grace? But it is the difference between life and death for those it is laid upon. God has shown me the reason Paul fought so dillengently against the law being laid upon the believer. Please allow that my zeal is that which God has given me? I hope it does not take from the kindness and love I feel for Gods People.

Agreed, your zeal is real. I only wish to place one gentle kiss upon your face and cause you to pause at the sincerity and taste of it's tenderness.

 

[Mitspa]

Clarify something about what you think for me.

Does thinking you must continue in your trust in the blood of Christ (not your works) qualify as the difference between living under law and living in grace? I don't think anyone in this particular thread thinks continuing in faith, and works, are the same thing. But it appears that some of those same people believe it is not a meritorious work when you first believe (which I agree), but to continue to believe in order to have the hope of salvation is somehow a damnable gospel of law/works. Please don't preach a high horse sermon. Just share your thoughts about it.

I am not sure of your question? But I will say it like this, the law is not of faith. When a man in his heart takes the condition of salvation into the realm of earning or working for salvation, he may well think he is in faith, but he is not! So a man under law may claim to be trusting in the Blood, but his own actions and heart testify against him. Those who practise righteousness are righteous. Those who live and act in faith are righteous not those who claim faith and yet go about to establish their own righteousness by works.

 

[gr8grace]

Yeahbutski ...
Thou art not heeding the warnings that talk about eternal life!
There are some, you know.
Better dig 'em out, and post 'em up on your favorite wall.

Hi John,

Thou are not heeding the Good news!

And after reading through this thread, I will just leave it at that.

God Bless

 

[Mitspa]

Agreed, your zeal is real. I only wish to place one gentle kiss upon your face and cause you to pause at the sincerity and taste of it's tenderness.

Well normally if I another guys talks about a kiss I would jerk Southern Baptist on him! Beat him up with my BIG KJV! lol But I understand and thank you for your kindness.

 

[jasoncran]

joe, I just turned 40.lol

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So look again at 2 Peter 2:22? Do you not see that those who return to sin and the pigs wallowing is those who have turned from grace back into law. For the strength of sin is the law. This is the warning of the new testament! For those who have known the way of righteousness? What is that? the righteousness of faith! So again those who warn others, should be warning themselves! The holy commandment is what? Given upon the Mt of tranfiguration "THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, HEAR HIM" Lord open their eyes so that they can see? amen

Is this a response to what I asked?

If so, I can only guess that you're saying that to heed Paul's warning to continue in faith to continue in Christ is actually the sin of turning away from grace and to the law?

 

[childeye]

I do not care about the law, but I care about those that seek to keep it in ignorance of the necessity of the Spirit that enables a person to surpass it. For the law is meant to serve men and not men serve the law. Did I say I am for the law or I am against the law? Well I have said neither and I have said both. Some will say, "you are fickle or double minded" and others will say, "you have rightly divided the left Cheribum from the right Cheribum". For the wise shopkeeper can show some of both the Old and the New.

A wise man thinks himself a fool and a fool thinks himself wise. I once thought I was wise because I thought I was a fool, but then I thought myself a fool for thinking I was wise for thinking I was a fool. So now I think myself wise so that I may be a fool and be wise. The simple Truth cannot be digitized since it is Spirit which only proves that no one can be God but God. But scripture says, "ye are all gods". Yet it also says the light was held in earthen vessels so that the glory may belong to God and not to ourselves. Wow, I think I can argue with myself pretty good. I don't think I am happy unless I am arguing with myself.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Agreed, your zeal is real.

...but I'm thinking it's probably a little misguided.

Zeal is not a dependable measure of truth.

 

[Deborah13]

So, your vote would be for, 'no', it's impossible for a true beleiver, changed into a new creation to then disown him? Correct? If so, any thoughtful insight into it would be welcome. That's how we learn.

I wish I could but I don't know how. Each person's walk and relationship with the Lord is their own. We tend to generalize. Not only do we put the Holy Spirit and His workings in neat little boxes but we do the same with believers. We only can see what is going on on the outside not what is going on on the inside.

From my own experience is the only place I could speak and I think it may be far different than your's.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I am not sure of your question? But I will say it like this, the law is not of faith. When a man in his heart takes the condition of salvation into the realm of earning or working for salvation, he may well think he is in faith, but he is not!

How is believing in Christ the non-meritorious 'work' God requires for salvation (which I think we both agree it is), but continuing in that same believing in order to continue in Christ is a sinful meritorious working for salvation?

So a man under law may claim to be trusting in the Blood, but his own actions and heart testify against him. Those who practise righteousness are righteous. Those who live and act in faith are righteous not those who claim faith and yet go about to establish their own righteousness by works.

So, I take it you believe that continuing in the faith that saved you in order to stay in Christ means you are sinfully working to stay in Christ and is equivalent to working the works of the law to be in Christ? Am I understanding you correctly? A simple 'yes', or 'no' prior to any explanation you want to add will suffice.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I wish I could but I don't know how. Each person's walk and relationship with the Lord is their own. We tend to generalize. Not only do we put the Holy Spirit and His workings in neat little boxes but we do the same with believers. We only can see what is going on on the outside not what is going on on the inside.

From my own experience is the only place I could speak and I think it may be far different than your's.

Actually, we're not really that far apart. As I've shared I'm very familiar with the staying power of the Holy Spirit and, truthfully, have no reservations about the surety of my own salvation. But, nevertheless, the warnings are there for the church that we must continue in the faith we had at first in order for that hope to remain sure as if it's possible to not remain in the confidence of the blood we had at first. Can anyone really argue that what I just said is somehow not true, and that the Bible doesn't warn us about losing our confidence, our faith in Christ (not ourselves) so we can remain in Christ?

How do you explain Paul's exhortations to people, who OSAS says are not really saved, to continue in the faith that saves that they don't have? I could venture a guess for the sake of discussion, but at the end of the day I'm not sure it can hold water.

 

[childeye]

...but I'm thinking it's probably a little misguided.

Zeal is not a dependable measure of truth.

Yes it is true that zeal does not equal truth, but we all do the best with what we are given. I don't recall Mitspa ever claiming his zeal is always accomplishing what he wishes it to, but I think his intentions are from a sincere Love for Godly things. Not one of us own the Father like He owns us. Simply because He preceded His children and put forth His Eternal Love when He spoke so as to create us, not because He is better than us. What a thing that Jesus would say, "Be thou perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect". What a great hope to consider.

 

[Mitspa]

How is believing in Christ the non-meritorious 'work' God requires for salvation (which I think we both agree it is), but continuing in that same believing in order to continue in Christ is a sinful meritorious working for salvation?



So, I take it you believe that continuing in the faith that saved you in order to stay in Christ means you are sinfully working to stay in Christ and is equivalent to working the works of the law to be in Christ? Am I understanding you correctly? A simple 'yes', or 'no' prior to any explanation you want to add will suffice.

That makes no sense! What I said is what I said, not what you turn it around to mean. Now you know I have little respect for that sort of nonsense, You cannot be under law and under faith at the same time, the reason many fail at standing in faith is because of those who put them under the law or teach in most cases. Now what is your question? or are you just playing word games?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yes it is true that zeal does not equal truth, but we all do the best with what we are given. I don't recall Mitspa ever claiming his zeal is always accomplishing what he wishes it to...

I think you're wrong. He's got a pretty high opinion of himself. Very boastful of his gift(s).

...but I think his intentions are from a sincere Love for Godly things.

I don't have any reason to doubt that. I just think he's got some things to learn yet, despite the great boast of his giftedness...which I actually don't doubt either--his giftedness, that is. He just needs some refining.

Do you remember 'Charlie X' from the original Star Trek series? I used to be like him when I was younger in the faith, and I see it in others from time to time.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That makes no sense! What I said is what I said, not what you turn it around to mean. Now you know I have little respect for that sort of nonsense, You cannot be under law and under faith at the same time, the reason many fail at standing in faith is because of those who put them under the law or teach in most cases. Now what is your question? or are you just playing word games?

Is continuing in the faith that saved you in order to remain in Christ the same as depending on your own works to be saved?

Yes, or no? Then add any explanation (short of a high horse, condescending sermon) you want to that answer.

 

[Mitspa]

...but I'm thinking it's probably a little misguided.

Zeal is not a dependable measure of truth.

Well it is a small thing with me to be judged by mans judgment, there is one who judges me and He is well pleased!

Now if you taken this conversation in the direction of personal insults etc... please dont come back on the tread later and talk about how you got your feelings hurt, and you are just trying to get along with others and that mean ole Mitspa started picking on you!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Well it is a small thing with me to be judged by mans judgment, there is one who judges me and He is well pleased!

Now if you taken this conversation in the direction of personal insults etc... please dont come back on the tread later and talk about how you got your feelings hurt, and you are just trying to get along with others and that mean ole Mitspa started picking on you!

Now answer the question:

Is continuing in the faith that saved you in order to remain in Christ the same as depending on your own works to be saved?

Yes, or no? Then add any explanation (short of a high horse, condescending sermon--blind fool, etc.) you want to that answer.

 

[gr8grace]

Is continuing in the faith that saved you in order to remain in Christ the same as depending on your own works to be saved?

Yes, or no? Then add any explanation (short of a high horse, condescending sermon) you want to that answer.

Yes.

The Key is "in order to remain in Christ" It is the Power of God that keeps us. His Faith Keeps us sealed.