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Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
I'm sure, as Mitspa and I agree, you place me in this category too. I consider you extremely presumptuous to pretend to know what level of relationship Mit -- or for that matter, I -- have with Christ because we trust so strongly and believe so clearly in His ability to hold us fast, and you don't. You will find more members here who believe as we do, so if you want to consider us pharasetical for disagreeing with you, I suggest you make one of two choices: develop tolerance for views of the Bible that clash with your misinterpretations, or stay off threads like this. God bless you.
Yes. I stop sitting in that chair and warn others not to, also. (I should tell you about the dining set we got from my sister-in-law someday, lol. I'm not kidding.)
Yes. Heavy rains force me to take alternate routes at least once a year around here. I stop taking that route when my trust fails in that route.
No. Unlike salvation, that required no trusting and believing on my part for that to ever happen in the first place that somehow now my lack of trust in that happening should be a consideration as to whether or not it continues to happen.
Yes. It depends on whose cooking it. If I decide to not trust it, I don't eat it, and I linger in my hunger. I am not somehow satisfied by food I do not continue to partake of because I refuse to trust it to satisfy me.
I know about the staying power of the Spirit of God and how what I am tempted to choose to do in violation of our relationship compares to the life and joy I have in that relationship. Is that what it means to no longer have the choice to walk away from the goodness and kindness of God and be lost? He's just so good that it's impossible to choose the world over him once I've 'tasted that he is good'? Again, the Bible suggests that the possibility is there that a person could choose the world after they've tasted the goodness of God(Hebrews 6:4-6 NIV).
Yes, everyone I can think of that walked away from their confession of faith had demonstrated a fundamental flaw in their faith in God to begin with. Remember, I'm not convicted one way or another about this subject. I'm not debating it. I see evidence on both sides. But what I see is some very powerful evidence in the pages of the Bible that even genuine faith can still choose to walk away.
Without basis? Don't forget why we're even talking about this:
I know that faith--the ability to know something is true without seeing it--comes entirely from God. Nobody has it in themselves to know the gospel is real. Everybody who is called hears the voice of faith through the preaching of the gospel. But it is only those who believe, taking it to heart, that are chosen. They are the few, the chosen, who are saved, not just the many who are called. I think this illustrates well the difference between 'faith' and 'believing'.
Then you have to say that just hearing the gospel, being supernaturally shown it's true so you can accept it (believe in it), but rejecting it anyway will save a person because to you just knowing the gospel is true in order to then accept it equates to accepting it. THAT is what is ridiculous! Hearing is NOT believing. James reminds us of that.
Even when I'm speaking I use the word 'faith' to indicate 'believing'. You won't get this from a simple word study. Words go way beyond that kind of reasoning. You're a smart fellow. You know that.
...Yes, it is talking about those God has turned back over to the unbelief they had before they rejected the Word of faith, the Holy Spirit, that showed them the gospel is true in order that they might then 'believe' (trust) in the gospel and be saved. I think the distinction between just knowing (faith), and trusting in your knowing (believing) is undeniable. Many people know the gospel is true. Few actually put their trust in it.
You're right. I do want to address the passages you cite. I want to show you that they do not exclude a continuing faith as the premise upon which they are true. You're reading that into the passages, taking it as a given when it doesn't say that at all.
As an addictions counselor and one who is in a Masters program in applied psychology, I'm always fascinated when people cast others as "angry or defensive" when disgust or impatience is expressed over a proven false doctrine continually being brought up for discussion, or is defended. I'm not angry or defensive. I'm simply tired of restating the obvious and dealing with the rabbit trails, false flags and other tactics designed to distract the observers of our discussion from the fact that you keep asking the same question despite them being more than adequately answered, And if you could refute those passages proving Jesus is responsible for our salvation, not us, you would do so now. You can't. You are buying time in order to do Internet research that will provide you with more false flags, smoke and mirrors and other similar distracting tactics. So again, I'm done here. God bless you.
The King most assuredly saved the servant....Matt 18:27...~~"Then the lord had compassion on that slave {grace} and released him {salvation}, and forgave him the debt {he did not pay anything yet debt was cancelled}."