Some of the serious NT warnings to the churches

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

But what if we stop trusting in that which God has shown us to be true?

Do you ever stop trusting your dining room chair to hold you up when you sit for meals? Do you ever stop trusting the road to work to always lead you there? Do you ever stop trusting that, if you awaken each day, the sun will rise and set? Do you ever stop trusting that food will put an end to your hunger pangs? These are temporal things, and could easily become the subject of mistrust, I suppose, but I seriously doubt you ever "stop trusting." Neither do you stop trusting Christ. Why? Because since you initially put your trust in Him, He has not failed you, not failed to lift you up when you fall, not failed to be there, on time, to meet your needs, not failed to comfort you in your sorrow, not failed to calm you in your anxiety, not failed to dry your tears and tell you it will be all right.

So why do you believe anyone who is truly saved, has truly confessed, with conviction, that he/she is a sinner in need of a Savior, and had that confession accepted as true and sincere in the ears of God -- why would you believe such a person would ever stop trusting in so personal a Savior, so dear a Friend, so perfect a Confessor? I've never seen it. I can state without fear of contradiction that you have not seen it either, whether you believe that or not. No one wouldl abandon so great a faith. It is ridiculous to even consider, particularly in light of the fact that I've shown you verse after verse after verse indicating it is not up to us to retain our salvation anyway! You keep asking, "What if?" and "Could it not?" without basis for asking the question, beyond your own conjecture about a condition you yourself would never admit to finding yourself in, because you will not stop trusting and believing. You only postulate that others might, even though (again) you have not seen it happen.

Once a person places their trust in the gospel that God has shown them is true, through the power of faith, is that person now incapable of not believing (trusting) in that which they know to be true?

The faith and trust did not come from within them. It came from God. We as humans are not capable of so great a faith. it has to be provided to us. Therefore, of course they are incapable of "not believing" because the belief they have is a supernatural gift from God and is not something a mere human can disown.

It's important to distinguish between 'faith' and 'believing' to understand what I'm saying. Many people are shown that the gospel is true by the supernatural work of faith through the voice of the Holy Spirit at work in the world, but few actually believe, placing their trust in the gospel they have been shown to be true through the power of the gift of faith. IOW, many are called, few are chosen.

That's the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. There is no difference between "faith" and "belief." This is a rabbit-trail argument that many who refuse to accept the doctrine of eternal security use to distract people from the truth. The "belief" spoken of in John 3:16, in Mark 5:36 and 9:23, in John 1:12, is the exact same thing -- the same Greek word pisteuo -- as is the "faith" of the centurion in Matthew 8:10, of the woman in Matthew 15:28, of the woman who kissed Jesus' feet in Luke 7:45-50. Your argument is fallacious. There is no difference.

As to "many are called, few are chosen" you are referring to all men being "called" but few "chosen" meaning those who do believe through the power of God. The phrase is not talking about people who claim to believe and then "fall away." It is talking about people who remain in their sins because of their unbelief.

Do the chosen, those who believe (put their trust in the gospel), become incapable of not believing and trusting in the gospel they know to be true once they have believed it?

Absolutely. I've proven it to you. Whether you accept it or not is not my problem.

 

[iLOVE]

I believe as I stated before when you were born-again you became the righteousness of Christ by faith. God's beloved! Your salvation has been sealed with rightousness. You are now seated in heavenly places. God will never count or impute your sins against you. However you must repent of your sins daily to stay in good fellowship with God. You must believe that God has been merciful to your unrighteousness, sins, and inquities; God can now right on your heart. As you read the word of God daily your mind is renewed. At the same time grace teaches you how to live righteous, Godly, and zealous. The Holy Spirit transforms you into the image of Lord Jesus Christ. As a child is dependent upon their parents, a Christ Believer must also be dependent upon Christ and the Cross. If God is not first in your life all things will be out of order. Overtime you will no longer be a friend of the world. You must have the fear of God inside you (obedience).

God is a loving Father and He has made provision to forgive you of every sin or mistake. First John 1:9 says that if you confess your sin, He is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse you of all unrighteousness. If you are born again, you can be forgiven as often as you ask.

Being honest and admitting your shortcomings are the first steps on the road to freedom from the sin that binds you. God can’t do anything for you if you are in denial about behavior that opposes His Word. If you gossip, lie or are involved in other forms of sin, admit that you have a problem and ask God to help you. Get in the Word of God and renew your mind in the area in which you have challenges. Confess your sin and move on. “For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved” (Romans 10:10, The New International Version).

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Romans 10:9-13 NIV

14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace. Romans 6:14 NIV

It appears that if a person that claims to be a Christian Believer and continue to deliberately practice sin, their heart does not believe. They are a friend of the world which is an enemy of God (James 4:4).

Once saved always saved = true if you ask for forgiveness.

 

[iLOVE]

Can a Christian Believers fall under the law by having the mindset of wrong thinking that you must tithe 10% weekly to the church they attend and curse there income?

The New Covenant states, 6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 2 corinthians 9:6-8

 

[Mitspa]

So, there is no warning for those who go back to the world and are in neither faith nor law? Why does backsliding always have to mean false religion instead of no religion to you? Aren't you making an obvious error in judgment to conclude that everybody who rejects faith in Christ is opting for works salvation instead of no religion/salvation at all? Why is there no room in your thinking for people who simply cast religion aside altogether who once entertained it?



Who are you talking about? Paul, who reminded the churches that those who do unlawful things will not inherit the kingdom of God?

Why is a sermon about what condemns a person (the law) automatically a sermon on how to be saved by that law and a vote for works justification/ salvation?




BINGO! That's what I think we need to honestly examine in this OSAS discussion. The Bible strongly suggests that the promises are sure to those who continue in the faith that secured those promises for them in the first place!

Well jethro, my point was that when those who teach law "which is not of faith" speak of those who do not continue if faith, it has little meaning. I would say that a large portion of those who come to Christ in faith are overturned in their faith by those who lay the yoke of law upon them. Not to mention that those who are teaching law are ALWAYS HYPOCRITES. aslo no one under the law has any biblical right to judge in these matters for their own hearts and minds are blinded by that same law.

To say or to imply that Paul was telling believers that would be judged by the law of moses, shows how far from true biblical understanding one is. Now Paul never pointed the believer back to the law of moses. He always pointed to the Spirit and his point was that if one is walking in the flesh, they cannot inherit the Kingdom, BECUASE THE KINGDOM IS SPIRITUAL! he is not saying they are not saved in spirit but that because they are yielding to their flesh, they are keeping themselves from receiving by grace to good things of the Kingdom.

 

[Mitspa]

Do you ever stop trusting your dining room chair to hold you up when you sit for meals? Do you ever stop trusting the road to work to always lead you there? Do you ever stop trusting that, if you awaken each day, the sun will rise and set? Do you ever stop trusting that food will put an end to your hunger pangs? These are temporal things, and could easily become the subject of mistrust, I suppose, but I seriously doubt you ever "stop trusting." Neither do you stop trusting Christ. Why? Because since you initially put your trust in Him, He has not failed you, not failed to lift you up when you fall, not failed to be there, on time, to meet your needs, not failed to comfort you in your sorrow, not failed to calm you in your anxiety, not failed to dry your tears and tell you it will be all right.

So why do you believe anyone who is truly saved, has truly confessed, with conviction, that he/she is a sinner in need of a Savior, and had that confession accepted as true and sincere in the ears of God -- why would you believe such a person would ever stop trusting in so personal a Savior, so dear a Friend, so perfect a Confessor? I've never seen it. I can state without fear of contradiction that you have not seen it either, whether you believe that or not. No one wouldl abandon so great a faith. It is ridiculous to even consider, particularly in light of the fact that I've shown you verse after verse after verse indicating it is not up to us to retain our salvation anyway! You keep asking, "What if?" and "Could it not?" without basis for asking the question, beyond your own conjecture about a condition you yourself would never admit to finding yourself in, because you will not stop trusting and believing. You only postulate that others might, even though (again) you have not seen it happen.

The faith and trust did not come from within them. It came from God. We as humans are not capable of so great a faith. it has to be provided to us. Therefore, of course they are incapable of "not believing" because the belief they have is a supernatural gift from God and is not something a mere human can disown.

That's the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. There is no difference between "faith" and "belief." This is a rabbit-trail argument that many who refuse to accept the doctrine of eternal security use to distract people from the truth. The "belief" spoken of in John 3:16, in Mark 5:36 and 9:23, in John 1:12, is the exact same thing -- the same Greek word pisteuo -- as is the "faith" of the centurion in Matthew 8:10, of the woman in Matthew 15:28, of the woman who kissed Jesus' feet in Luke 7:45-50. Your argument is fallacious. There is no difference.

As to "many are called, few are chosen" you are referring to all men being "called" but few "chosen" meaning those who do believe through the power of God. The phrase is not talking about people who claim to believe and then "fall away." It is talking about people who remain in their sins because of their unbelief.

Absolutely. I've proven it to you. Whether you accept it or not is not my problem.

Wow number! you make some very deep and touching points.
I love your dependence upon the Lord.

We who know Him, know how secure we are in Him. He has proven His ability to keep us. Like a child, we are strong in our weakness because He is faithful. I believe it is clear that those who go about to establish their own righteousness are never supposed to have the assurance that you have expressed.
God in His wisdom has required that every man be humbled to accept His Righteousness, by faith alone. And that a man must remain in need of Gods grace. Those who are in pride and self-effort are not granted to know the confidence we have in Him. They are on the broad path we are on the narrow. If a man thinks in his heart that he can earn salvation, God will humble that man. God will not allow that man to be secure in his own efforts.
Now they may profess with their mouths, that they are trusting in God, but their hearts are far from Him. For it is in our dependence and our weakness that we put our in complete trust in Him, we love Him, because He FIRST loved us.

 

[francisdesales]

So you come on a thread to lash out at others, and cast doubt opon others doctrines and salvation, but your doctrines and your mindset and understanding cannot be questioned? Oh please! maybe your looking for the childrens bible story section of the forum? You will be required to defend your doctrines and you will be challenged on those doctrines. Now if you cannot take it? do not judge others and accuse Gods people of with false doctrine.

Maybe you are in over your head? If you would like to recant your charges and admit your errors, we will forgive you.

It's people like you that made me leave 2 years ago. People like the righteous Pharisee who thought they had a close relationship with God but were deluded.

You think I'm over my head with you? . I guess if I was a teenager, I'd take the bait...

I'll let the people who have been here for awhile and know me answer that, like Jason.

I did not come here to "lash out" at anyone, nor am I making personal attacks, like you are. My original post was addressed to someone who totally disregarded numerous scriptural posts to honor their false theology.

So I will ask you again to be more charitable in your answers. If this is beyond your ability, pray that God graces you with the gift of humility, for surely, it is the humble who will be exalted, who will be justified. (again, referencing Luke 18)

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

I may not agree with ya Francisdesales....but nice to 'see' ya again. reba

Thanks Reba, I missed that cute little picture!

I wish more were like you - when we disagree, we don't have to call them names...

I'm still contemplating whether God wants me here or not.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Well first you have thown out so many false statements on these issues, I felt that your dishonest statements should be rebuked.
As far as the gentiles turning to law, anyone who has read the epistles knows that certain jews where coming into the chruch, seeking to bring them into bondage. Besides that many of the leaders of the gentile chruches was in fact jews.
Besides that, the warnings that have been used on this thread have come from different places in NT scripture.
So please understand you are making no point in bringing up this issue.

Maybe we got off on the wrong foot. Let's not presume that I am commented with the purpose of making you look foolish. We can disagree and still maintain our Christian dignity and love, can we not?

Yes, some Jews who were Messianic had thought Gentiles should become Jewish. That is clear. However, Paul is addressing the entire community, not just particular Jewish leaders. By default, the letter is to the ENTIRE community. My point, I apologize if I didn't clearly state it, is that the very first post WAS addressed to Christians and THEIR possible loss of the Kingdom. These verses are NOT addressed in reference to non-Christians. Paul HIMSELF says he can be disqualified. My first post was aimed at whoever stated that these verses were not meant for Christians, but were punishments for those who were not Christian, so "get out there and get make your recruiting goals". Refusing to reflect on the clear voice of Scripture is idolatry of doctrine, placing that doctrine over the clear Word of God, which states that people CAN lose the Kingdom. Peole who ONCE had it.

You talking about the contrast between grace and works made me make a detour. I apologize, I'm a bit rusty, I should have cut you off right there...

Regards

 

[stovebolts]

Thanks Reba, I missed that cute little picture!

I wish more were like you - when we disagree, we don't have to call them names...

I'm still contemplating whether God wants me here or not.

Regards

Hello both Friend and Brother,

While your contemplating, let's continue to keep in touch.

 

[francisdesales]

It is not as you say. It is the the present, active nominative participle verb "pisteuon". notice that there is no mood in the participle verb. If it was in the indicative mood then believing would be seen as a command and one would have to KEEP on believing.

The participle verb "pisteuon" functions as a verbal noun and is "the one who believes" which indicates that it is a MOMENT for the ONE who believes. And anything other then the indicative mood, says that it keeps on being so, as is habitually true.

An example would be," whoever pays His Fine". Pays is in the present tense, but there is an article that pays. the fine is paid at the moment he hands over his money, and the fine continues on, habitually paid.

I'm curious to know if your advanced grammar description was in the mind of the hearer of the Word. They heard BELIEVES. That is present tense. To the hearer, it implies ongoing belief, does it not? Also, Jesus DOES make it a command - "He who believes shall be saved..." It is a command to do something, and a reward will be given.

Don't you think God desires an ongoing relationship with man? Not a one-time acceptance? If you think that is OK, you would have to explain to me why God got angry and allowed the Assyrians and the Babylonians to virtually destroy those "one-time believers", His People. Or the people He brought out of Egypt, only two made it to the Promised Land. God desires a believer, not a person who once believed, don't you agree? I think the Scriptural evidence is pretty clear. We must continue to walk in Christ - Yes?

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Hello both Friend and Brother,

While your contemplating, let's continue to keep in touch.

Hi, Jeff. I like what you have done with your car! It is beautiful. I remember the pics when you first got it. Wonderful job.

Thanks for your kind words. I enjoy discussing things that are more important in life, rather than politics. I left here because people felt it necessary to try to bury me because of my beliefs. I'm hoping that my minority status won't be frowned upon, too much! But I do appreciate your words, my brother. It's funny, I was bored yesterday, and so out of the blue (or maybe another reason?), I checked my private mails on the site, and here I am - perhaps to the chagrin of some - but I do enjoy the majority of the company. I have learned to love and respect people who I disagree with on certain subjects - knowing that we have a higher state of agreement; freedom in Jesus Christ.

God Bless you and yours,

Joe

 

[gr8grace]

I'm curious to know if your advanced grammar description was in the mind of the hearer of the Word. They heard BELIEVES. That is present tense. To the hearer, it implies ongoing belief, does it not? Also, Jesus DOES make it a command - "He who believes shall be saved..." It is a command to do something, and a reward will be given.

Don't you think God desires an ongoing relationship with man? Not a one-time acceptance? If you think that is OK, you would have to explain to me why God got angry and allowed the Assyrians and the Babylonians to virtually destroy those "one-time believers", His People. Or the people He brought out of Egypt, only two made it to the Promised Land. God desires a believer, not a person who once believed, don't you agree? I think the Scriptural evidence is pretty clear. We must continue to walk in Christ - Yes?

Regards

Yes it was in the mind of the hearer, the hearer also heard,"SHALL be saved", "SHALL have eternal life" to the Hearer they took the whole sentence and the surrounding context as truth. they knew what that meant. there was no "if" or "maybe" about it.

Today we have dumbed down the hearer with just offering bits and pieces and then throw out the idea that the original language is to advanced for Gods people to understand.

The hearer knew exactly what was being said and how it was being said.

And yes God desires a ongoing relationship with us, But He wants a Grace relationship and a secure and free relationship. He does not want His children "guessing" if we are really his Children.

The one time acceptance is God guaranteeing us we are His Children and He is in the drivers seat. And He deals with us in Grace.

If it was not a one time acceptance, there would be no one saved.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Joe and thanks for the Kudo's on the pile of Stovebolts lol! She's still a work in progress. If you ever make it to Michigan, I'll take ya on a pretty wild ride! BTW, she has ghost flames! You'll have to hit me up on facebook and check out my Albums!

You know, your always going to be the minority and there are always going to be those that will try to bury you for your belief's especially when you come into an Apologetic forum. It's the nature of it all. Me personally, I'm tired of arguing. I don't need to be right anymore so I just bop in here or there and try my best to stay away from controversy... I'm not saying I do a very good job at it lol, but I try.

Funny, we were talking about how outsiders viewed Christianity and it occured to me that they only know us by our doctrines and arguments and lately it's been evolution... when it occured to me there are more important things to be talking about... like "How's life treating you" and "How can I help you". In other words, how can we help better the people around us through casual conversation and little deeds of good?

 

[jasoncran]

It dont matter what the Jews knew or when they knew it! The New Testament makes all these issues very clear, the law had is purpose and Christ came and fufilled every jot and tittle, for those who are in faith. Now the law is not of faith and whatever is not of faith is sin. The strength of sin is the law. The law produces sinful desires in those who look to the law.
That NO MAN can be justified by the deeds of the law is evident! That means nobody will have any excuse on judgment day for rejecting the grace of God and going about to establish their own righteousness by the law. The warnings of the NT are for those who turn from grace back to law.
Gal 5:4 You have been cut off from Christ, you who are justified by the law, you have fallen from grace.

Now it dont get no clearer than that! Those who warn others should warn and teach themselves!

paul was wrong then when these men of faith were listed and none and not one lived to see Christ

Hebrews 11

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect

 

[jasoncran]

it is good to see Joe back.

 

[Mitspa]

It's people like you that made me leave 2 years ago. People like the righteous Pharisee who thought they had a close relationship with God but were deluded.

You think I'm over my head with you? . I guess if I was a teenager, I'd take the bait...

I'll let the people who have been here for awhile and know me answer that, like Jason.

I did not come here to "lash out" at anyone, nor am I making personal attacks, like you are. My original post was addressed to someone who totally disregarded numerous scriptural posts to honor their false theology.

So I will ask you again to be more charitable in your answers. If this is beyond your ability, pray that God graces you with the gift of humility, for surely, it is the humble who will be exalted, who will be justified. (again, referencing Luke 18)

Regards

So when "you" challenge others in their doctrines and beliefs, you are doing good? But anyone who challenges your doctrines and beliefs are wrong to do so? That is hypocricy! a fruit of those who attempt to be justified by the law.
Like I said, you should be prepared to defend your doctrines, if you get your feelings hurt, when others challenge you? maybe you should move to another section of the forum? They have a forum that allows one to post whatever they want, and there is no debate allowed on those threads.

 

[francisdesales]

Yes it was in the mind of the hearer, the hearer also heard,"SHALL be saved", "SHALL have eternal life" to the Hearer they took the whole sentence and the surrounding context as truth. they knew what that meant. there was no "if" or "maybe" about it.

I agree. IF you believe - today - you shall be saved. Salvation is conditional, don't you agree? I believe that the Lord wants an ongoing relationship with man, and that we begin to live eternal life even here, in part, as we love, forgive and show mercy, by the grace of God. THAT is eternal life, sharing in the divine life that Peter mentioned. That begins now, as we believe and Christ abides in us. That's my experience.

And yes God desires a ongoing relationship with us, But He wants a Grace relationship and a secure and free relationship. He does not want His children "guessing" if we are really his Children.

I believe that OSAS IS a guessing game. That is why so many feel the need to "rebaptize" again and again, fearing that the first didn't "take".

Consider with me for a second.

The idea of OSAS is that as long as we are in a loving relationship, we are in Christ. However, if we fall away during our walk, the explanation is that "your first acceptance of Christ was not 'good' enough. It wasn't true" Thus, gr8grace, when a OSAS believer will inevitably hit bumps in the road along their journey, maybe even falter seriously, they begin to DOUBT whether they REALLY had a "true" relationship the whole time. They wonder whether it was all a farce, and wonder whether they just didn't have enough "centi-faith-meters" on the "faith scale" at the time of their 'baptism'. And so they rebaptize, hoping that THIS time, they pegged the "faith scale".

OSAS does not offer security for the believer during difficult times. It only adds confusion and doubt to whether they had enough faith at the beginning, since they current "problems" point to that "not good enough conversion".

That is false theology. When we are baptized, that can NEVER be taken away - as God promised. We are God's children, and we don't have to worry if we "had enough faith" during that first conversion. What we, as Christians, need to do is CONTINUE in faith. Our current walk is not based upon what we did or didn't do 20 years ago. It is based on our relationship with God now. Are we being made holy, being sanctified, growing in Christ? Yes, we were saved, but have we fallen away? Our current life in Christ should answer that question. There is no need to rebaptize.

Would you agree?

Regards

 

[Mitspa]

I'm curious to know if your advanced grammar description was in the mind of the hearer of the Word. They heard BELIEVES. That is present tense. To the hearer, it implies ongoing belief, does it not? Also, Jesus DOES make it a command - "He who believes shall be saved..." It is a command to do something, and a reward will be given.

Don't you think God desires an ongoing relationship with man? Not a one-time acceptance? If you think that is OK, you would have to explain to me why God got angry and allowed the Assyrians and the Babylonians to virtually destroy those "one-time believers", His People. Or the people He brought out of Egypt, only two made it to the Promised Land. God desires a believer, not a person who once believed, don't you agree? I think the Scriptural evidence is pretty clear. We must continue to walk in Christ - Yes?

Regards

Again the only warnings are not to turn from faith! The law is not of faith! so the warnings are to those who are ignorant of Gods righteousness and going about to establish their own.
This is why the Lord said that the harlot would be granted the Kingdom before the hypocrite? Because the harlot is sure that its by Gods grace! The hypocrite thinks they have some righteous ability of their own.

 

[francisdesales]

So when "you" challenge others in their doctrines and beliefs, you are doing good? But anyone who challenges your doctrines and beliefs are wrong to do so? That is hypocricy! a fruit of those who attempt to be justified by the law.
Like I said, you should be prepared to defend your doctrines, if you get your feelings hurt, when others challenge you? maybe you should move to another section of the forum? They have a forum that allows one to post whatever they want, and there is no debate allowed on those threads.

I am prepared to defend my beliefs. I have done so for many years. When I see someone challenging them, I will continue do so. I will attempt to do so charitably. I have responded to two others here. You are not the only person I am responding to Have you noticed this?

If someone attacks my person, I will not bother with such childish games. That's why I left the last time. I note those other two people have been respectful in their responses. You have not. You prefer to attack the person. They have not had to resort to childish games, as you are. If you feel the need to personally attack someone, I apologize in advance, I am not going to be dragged into that mess anymore. From past experience, perhaps you need to do some self-reflection into why you feel the need to attack me...

Regards

 

[jasoncran]

joe, isn't teaching work without faith.