Some of the serious NT warnings to the churches

[Mitspa]

Is continuing in the faith that saved you in order to remain in Christ the same as depending on your own works to be saved?

Yes, or no? Then add any explanation (short of a high horse, condescending sermon) you want to that answer.

What kind of question is that? you make up a question that has your own twisted doctrine as the bases of truth. I do not accept that there is a condition of being in Christ other than faith. And of course works is works and grace is grace!

Not sure where you think you have taken the position to ask me questions? Nor do i believe you have honest intentions is asking these questions. I remind you of the hours of conversation we have had in the past, so why do you now act as if my positions have not been made known to you? Are you trying to trip me up with deceptive words? Be careful for God loves to catch folks in such things. I have read your mail before young man, and can do it again.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yes.

The Key is "in order to remain in Christ" It is the Power of God that keeps us. His Faith Keeps us sealed.

Okay, good. That's exactly where I thought someone should go to talk about this.

What does that mean, 'his faith'?

I was saved because I 'worked' the non-meritorious 'work' of believing (trusting in the blood of Christ). Can I stop that 'work', the 'work' of believing, and somehow be saved on the basis of Christ's trusting/ believing? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[gr8grace]

Okay, good. That's exactly where I thought someone should go to talk about this.

What does that mean, 'his faith'?

I was saved because I 'worked' the non-meritorious 'work' of believing (trusting in the blood of Christ). Can I stop that 'work', the 'work' of believing, and somehow be saved on the basis of Christ's trusting/ believing? That doesn't make sense to me.

Do you believe you were saved(eternal) at the instant you believed in Christ? Because that is my premise, and I will not fulfill any of your questions if we are not on the same page.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I do not accept that there is a condition of being in Christ other than faith.

Me, too. I had no doubt that you believe this.

Not sure where you think you have taken the position to ask me questions?

Are you above scrutiny? I WISH more people would inquire more about what I say in these forums!

I'm asking because you have continually said that what I believe is that a man has to work the damnation of the law to remain in Christ. I'm going to prove to you that is hardly what I'm saying, but for some reason you have resisted my efforts to explain my position (it's that 'hands over the ears' thing). By asking you questions that make you look beyond the hardened defenses of your doctrine I may possibly be able to make you see how wrongly and unfairly you have judged my doctrine as tantamount to works of the law.

Nor do i believe you have honest intentions is asking these questions.

My intention is to stop your unfair perception of what I've been saying and somehow make you see what I'm really saying, but which you can not hear for some reason.

I remind you of the hours of conversation we have had in the past, so why do you now act as if my positions have not been made known to you?

Your position is not what's not known here...this continual banter about turning to the surety of law. What I want to know is your position in regard to what I'M talking about--relying on the continuation of the faith (not works) that saved you in order to remain in the hope of salvation. See the difference?

Are you trying to trip me up with deceptive words? Be careful for God loves to catch folks in such things.

I'm speaking plainly and forthrightly. Stop being suspicious. What is it about my plain words that you do not understand?

I have read your mail before young man, and can do it again.

I'm pretty sure that's a federal offense.

Oh, and by the way, I'm prolly not as young as you think, lol. Maybe relatively speaking, though.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do you believe you were saved(eternal) at the instant you believed in Christ? Because that is my premise, and I will not fulfill any of your questions if we are not on the same page.

Yes, in the very instant I believed.

 

[Mitspa]

Me, too. I had no doubt that you believe this.



Are you above scrutiny? I WISH more people would inquire more about what I say in these forums!

I'm asking because you have continually said that what I believe is that a man has to work the damnation of the law to remain in Christ. I'm going to prove to you that is hardly what I'm saying, but for some reason you have resisted my efforts to explain my position (it's that 'hands over the ears' thing). By asking you questions that make you look beyond the hardened defenses of your doctrine I may possibly be able to make you see how wrongly and unfairly you have judged my doctrine as tantamount to works of the law.



My intention is to stop your unfair perception of what I've been saying and somehow make you see what I'm really saying, but which you can not hear for some reason.


Your position is not what's not known here...this continual banter about turning to the surety of law. What I want to know is your position in regard to what I'M talking about--relying on the continuation of the faith (not works) that saved you in order to remain in the hope of salvation. See the difference?



I'm speaking plainly and forthrightly. Stop being suspicious. What is it about my plain words that you do not understand?



I'm pretty sure that's a federal offense.

Oh, and by the way, I'm prolly not as young as you think, lol. Maybe relatively speaking, though.

Ok jethro! I will grant that you have honest intentions in your questions , so of course we are to continue in faith. I will not tell you that the law is not of faith, because I have already said that many times before! lol

 

[gr8grace]

Yes, in the very instant I believed.

Forgive me Jethro, I just need a little more to become familiar where you are coming from.

Was it Grace and Christ (the object) that saved you or was it your belief?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I'm asking because you have continually said that what I believe is that a man has to work the damnation of the law to remain in Christ. I'm going to prove to you that is hardly what I'm saying, but for some reason you have resisted my efforts to explain my position (it's that 'hands over the ears' thing). By asking you questions that make you look beyond the hardened defenses of your doctrine I may possibly be able to make you see how wrongly and unfairly you have judged my doctrine as tantamount to works of the law.

I would consider revisiting our discussion and responding to those same questions, if you can answer this one: What could entice someone to abandon the faith they have in Christ -- I'm talking the true, genuine faith of salvation -- other than 1) a failed work according to the Law, or 2) misinterpretation of an event that would lead them to believe God is not faithful?

You see, in the first of those two options, a true believer knows the Law does not save. In the second, a true believer would never believe God to be unfaithful. So what other possibility is there? Please, no attempt at leading questions. Simply answer that one. Thank you.

 

[Deborah13]

Actually, we're not really that far apart. As I've shared I'm very familiar with the staying power of the Holy Spirit and, truthfully, have no reservations about the surety of my own salvation. But, nevertheless, the warnings are there for the church that we must continue in the faith we had at first in order for that hope to remain sure as if it's possible to not remain in the confidence of the blood we had at first. Can anyone really argue that what I just said is somehow not true, and that the Bible doesn't warn us about losing our confidence, our faith in Christ (not ourselves) so we can remain in Christ?

How do you explain Paul's exhortations to people, who OSAS says are not really saved, to continue in the faith that saves that they don't have? I could venture a guess for the sake of discussion, but at the end of the day I'm not sure it can hold water.

It is by faith we can have hope. It is by grace, through faith we are saved. If someone loses hope then they need to exam why. There can be more than one reason. Does it always mean that they were never saved, NO. Does that mean they lost their salvation NO. Could it mean they were never saved, Yes. Could it mean they lost their salvation, No.
How do I know this for sure...because His WORD says that HE is faithful even when we are not.
And that is my experience with Him and that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

I cannot give you any better teaching on this then has already been given by those much wiser than I.

 

[John Zain]

Beat him up with my BIG KJV!

Yes, thou hast said something worthwhile here ...
the KJV is quite a bit larger (er, longer) than the non - Textus Receptus Bibles.

 

[Mitspa]

I would consider revisiting our discussion and responding to those same questions, if you can answer this one: What could entice someone to abandon the faith they have in Christ -- I'm talking the true, genuine faith of salvation -- other than 1) a failed work according to the Law, or 2) misinterpretation of an event that would lead them to believe God is not faithful?

You see, in the first of those two options, a true believer knows the Law does not save. In the second, a true believer would never believe God to be unfaithful. So what other possibility is there? Please, no attempt at leading questions. Simply answer that one. Thank you.

Yes again this was the issue that was being discussed earlier in the day. I have seen folks turn back into the world, but all these people where taught a mixed doctrine of law and grace.
Of course under this type of teaching many will fail to stay in the power of Gods grace. Being condemned or feeling condemned by God, or course they will turn back to the world. God will not lay their failure to them as much as to those who have put the stumbling block of law in their walk of faith.

This goes back to 2 pet 2:22 God is not warning the weak man who returns to the world, he is warning the believer that has known the way of righteousness and The holy commandment of faith in Christ. who return to the law and to wallow in their own sin, after being washed by the Gospel.

 

[Sparkey]

Sing it with me!

The Lord Liveth! And I shall call upon the Lord and blessed be thy rock and let the God of thy salvation be exalted.
I will call upon the Lord!

O Lord (our Lord)! How majestic is Your Name in all the earth!
When I look at Your creation, all the wonders You have made... I know You are great and greatly to be praised.

 

[Deborah13]

God Bless

I want to get your opinion.

Myself and many others receive the Lord by grace through faith with the understanding that all our sins are forgiven up to that moment and that you are saved at that moment. After that you repent and if it is a sincere repentance you are forgiven. However, you are not assured in that salvation because if you should sin and die depending on the severity of the sin you could lose your salvation. If you were to backslide for some reason you lose your salvation. Of coarse you can return and be restored (which is wrong, you can only be saved once, Christ only died once).

Are these people saved or not?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Forgive me Jethro, I just need a little more to become familiar where you are coming from.

Was it Grace and Christ (the object) that saved you or was it your belief?

No prob.

I was saved by God's grace embodied in the blood of Christ which I accessed by believing (trusting) in that blood through the gift of faith.

 

[iLOVE]

John the Baptist sent some of his disciples to ask Jesus, "Are you the one we should be looking for? Or must we wait for someone else?" (Matthew 11:3). Yet, when he baptized his cousin, Jesus, John knew that Jesus was the Messiah (Matthew 3:13-17). So why does he question him now?

Did John lose his salvation for having doubt? No!
Did Peter lose his salvation for denying Lord Jesus three times? No!
Did Moses, David, and Paul lose there salvation for Murder? No!
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Ephesians 1:7
God looks at your heart!

 

[Deborah13]

John the Baptist sent some of his disciples to ask Jesus, "Are you the one we should be looking for? Or must we wait for someone else?" (Matthew 11:3). Yet, when he baptized his cousin, Jesus, John knew that Jesus was the Messiah (Matthew 3:13-17). So why does he question him now?

Did John lose his salvation for having doubt? No!
Did Peter lose his salvation for denying Lord Jesus three times? No!
Did Moses, David, and Paul lose there salvation for Murder? No!
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Ephesians 1:7
God looks at your heart!

It is the opinion of some that see #533 please.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I would consider revisiting our discussion and responding to those same questions, if you can answer this one: What could entice someone to abandon the faith they have in Christ -- I'm talking the true, genuine faith of salvation -- other than 1) a failed work according to the Law, or 2) misinterpretation of an event that would lead them to believe God is not faithful?

You see, in the first of those two options, a true believer knows the Law does not save. In the second, a true believer would never believe God to be unfaithful. So what other possibility is there? Please, no attempt at leading questions. Simply answer that one. Thank you.

"What could entice someone to abandon the faith they have in Christ?"

I can think of two possibilities outside of the two you listed: 1) love of the world, and 2) not being willing to pay the costs of discipleship as they learn about and encounter those costs after professing faith in Christ.

 

[gr8grace]

I want to get your opinion.

Myself and many others receive the Lord by grace through faith with the understanding that all our sins are forgiven up to that moment and that you are saved at that moment. After that you repent and if it is a sincere repentance you are forgiven. However, you are not assured in that salvation because if you should sin and die depending on the severity of the sin you could lose your salvation. If you were to backslide for some reason you lose your salvation. Of coarse you can return and be restored (which is wrong, you can only be saved once, Christ only died once).

Are these people saved or not?

Hi Deb,

If one has believed on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation, one is saved forever. I have enough respect for the Cross that I believe one could do anything to try to get out of that salvation and would not be successful.

I do not know for sure if I completely understand your question. but i will try from what I see in your question.

Christ paid the whole penalty for sin. Believers and unbelievers alike. Sin is not the question in salvation, it is belief in Christ.(repentance is a change of mind of who Christ is)

Your sins are paid in full while an unbeliever and while a believer. The believer now has the responsibility to ACKNOWLEDGE his sin to God so he can get back in fellowship with God. they are forgiven and we will not be held accountable for those Sins. But if we want to walk in the Spirit and be in fellowship with God we had better acknowledge it and carry on.

for severe backsliders and believers who do not get back(and will not get back) into fellowship and the plan of God. God will use the Sin unto death and just bring the Christian home.

Study the Great white throne Judgement, Sins are Not brought up it is "works" ergon.

Study the Bema seat and one will see that sins are not brought up it is "works" ergon.

That is because Christ paid for the Sins of the whole world.

The more I study Grace gets bigger and bigger.

 

[Deborah13]

Hi Deb,

If one has believed on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation, one is saved forever. I have enough respect for the Cross that I believe one could do anything to try to get out of that salvation and would not be successful.

I do not know for sure if I completely understand your question. but i will try from what I see in your question.

Christ paid the whole penalty for sin. Believers and unbelievers alike. Sin is not the question in salvation, it is belief in Christ.(repentance is a change of mind of who Christ is)

Your sins are paid in full while an unbeliever and while a believer. The believer now has the responsibility to ACKNOWLEDGE his sin to God so he can get back in fellowship with God. they are forgiven and we will not be held accountable for those Sins. But if we want to walk in the Spirit and be in fellowship with God we had better acknowledge it and carry on.

for severe backsliders and believers who do not get back(and will not get back) into fellowship and the plan of God. God will use the Sin unto death and just bring the Christian home.

Study the Great white throne Judgement, Sins are Not brought up it is "works" ergon.

Study the Bema seat and one will see that sins are not brought up it is "works" ergon.

That is because Christ paid for the Sins of the whole world.

The more I study Grace gets bigger and bigger.

I agree with everything that you have said.

But that's not the question, I try to do better.

I was saved not believing in eternal security.....was I really saved?
Or I was not saved because I did not believe in eternal security?

 

[Mitspa]

I want to get your opinion.

Myself and many others receive the Lord by grace through faith with the understanding that all our sins are forgiven up to that moment and that you are saved at that moment. After that you repent and if it is a sincere repentance you are forgiven. However, you are not assured in that salvation because if you should sin and die depending on the severity of the sin you could lose your salvation. If you were to backslide for some reason you lose your salvation. Of coarse you can return and be restored (which is wrong, you can only be saved once, Christ only died once).

Are these people saved or not?

Well I am going to go outside of the traditional acceptance of "being saved" I cannot understand a salvation that does not included the witness of Gods Love. If that love had not been so real to me, I would have no doubt returned to worldly things.
I did not understand the concepts of faith in the Blood or eternal salvation etc... I knew that I knew that God loved me. His mighty Spirit was upon me so strong that if I even stood beside an unsaved person they would begin to weep at His compassion and love for them. I won more souls just by looking others in the eyes than all the doctrines of those who were concerned with explaining salvation. My proof of God was as simple as to say, Let me lay my hands upon you and you will know God is real. So in a real way I do not believe that any should accept a salvation that does not have this witness with it.
To be honest Deb, I do not think that those who are so concerned with others sin, have any idea that a believer is saved in spirit and the flesh cannot unsave them. If a sin can unsave them it is some sort of spiritual adultry, such as turning back into law.