What Law Paul

[Humblepie]

If they can't make us righteous, or save us, they are worthless

May it Never Be!


That is what Paul is responding to here. Is it true? Paul answers, "May it never be!" Absolutely not. That is not what I am doing. You may think that, but you must think more. Don't jump to conclusions. Follow me to the end of the argument. Don't press your assumptions on my argument without hearing me out. I am not nullifying the Law when I preach justification by faith alone apart from works of the Law.

In fact, he goes on and says, "On the contrary, we establish the Law." This is remarkable. He turns the table on his critics. He says, "Not only do we not nullify the Law when we teach justification by faith alone apart from works of the Law, but we establish the Law when we teach this. Justification by faith alone, apart from works of the Law, does not knock the Law down, it stands the Law up. Getting right with God by faith, not works, establishes the Law.

 

[JLB]

Nobody is forced or obligated to obey God's law. It is out of obedience that we obey God's law.
We do it because we are saved, to set us apart.

We follow God's law because we are saved. The law does not end where grace begins. Grace is there for when we fail at following God's law.

Grace is the God given ability to do what we can not do on our own, which is to obey God; to be led by His Spirit.

Grace is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:28-29


Grace is both something as well as Someone.

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, Titus 2:11-12


The Spirit of grace teaches us.


The Spirit is also referred to as the anointing that teaches us all things.


But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:27


The Holy Spirit is also called the Spirit of truth, that leads and guides us into all truth.




JLB

 

[JLB]

21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am ((((((not))))))) free from (((God’s law))) but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.

Yes, as I said we are under the law of Christ, not the law of Moses.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Oh the commands of men that were never part of God's law? All those you mention are traditions of men, or commandments of men.

Yep, and they no longer apply to NT Christians.

How many times in the new testament does it say the opposite of what you claim?

Show me one time that Paul commanded someone to get circumcised to be saved.
Or one time where eating bacon was prohibited.

By the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." So he says that no one will be justified by doing the commandments of the Law like, "Be circumcised" and "Do no work on the Sabbath" and "Don't steal or kill or lie or commit adultery." No sinner can get right with God by doing the "works of the Law."

Being circumcised won't help anyone get saved.
Nor will abstaining from pork.
Loving God and neighbor, however, will.
Steeling, lying, and adultery, are far from loving anyone.

Then in verse 21 Paul says, "Now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested." God's righteousness is given to us "freely by grace" (verse 24) through Christ apart from the law of commandments. Commandment-keeping is not how we gain a right standing with God.

Right, as long as those commandments are not 9 of the original 10.
Sabbath keeping went the way of the OT.

Then look at verse 27, "Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a Law of faith." So again the "law of works" seems to Paul to be negative.

Right, it is a negative, and of the OT.

It can't get rid of boasting.

You lost me there, but it is so insignificant that you don't need to address it,

Only a "Law of faith" can get rid of boasting. So what positive role is left for the Law?

Which part of the Law ?

Then notice verse 28, "We maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." There it is again. Paul is not satisfied to say the positive - "a man is justified by faith" - he insists on saying the negative also - "apart from works of the Law." This is what is getting his critics upset. He says the Law can't set us right with God. We get right with God by faith "apart from works of the Law."

I thought you were one of those wanting the Law ?
Which side are you on ?

Now, with that kind of context, when we get to verse 31 and he asks, "Do we then nullify the Law through faith?", we really are not surprised that someone pressed this question on Paul. "Paul, you keep saying that a person gets right with God - gets justified - by faith apart from 'works of the Law,' and that the 'law of works' can't overcome boasting. So it seems to us that you are virtually nullifying the Law.

More that just "seems".

You are saying that all those commandments in the moral law of God have no authority and may be safely ignored by God's people. You are, it seems, calling for a lawless people."

Not at all, as I understand that the moral parts of the Law are now written on the hearts of the new creatures reborn of God's seed.
Circumcision, dietary rules, feast keeping, sabbath keeping, tithing, temple service, the priesthood, etc., are all passed away.
We of the NT are dead to the Law: just as Paul was.
"Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God." (Rom 7:4)
"For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God." (Gal 2:19)

There is a difference between being subject to the Law of Moses and to the Law of Christ.
There is also a difference between Lawless and lawless.

 

[Hopeful 2]

May it Never Be!

Now, it seems, you are back on the side of the Judaizers.

That is what Paul is responding to here. Is it true? Paul answers, "May it never be!" Absolutely not. That is not what I am doing. You may think that, but you must think more. Don't jump to conclusions. Follow me to the end of the argument. Don't press your assumptions on my argument without hearing me out. I am not nullifying the Law when I preach justification by faith alone apart from works of the Law.

The Law Paul defends is not the Mosaic Law, but the law of Christ...9 of the original 10 commandments.

In fact, he goes on and says, "On the contrary, we establish the Law." This is remarkable. He turns the table on his critics. He says, "Not only do we not nullify the Law when we teach justification by faith alone apart from works of the Law, but we establish the Law when we teach this. Justification by faith alone, apart from works of the Law, does not knock the Law down, it stands the Law up. Getting right with God by faith, not works, establishes the Law.

What is necessary for YOU to be judged worthy of eternal life ?
Do YOU need to be circumcised ?
Do YOU need to abstain from pork ?
Do YOU need to remain within a certain distance from home on a sabbath day ?
Will YOU be condemned for carrying a mattress on the sabbath ?
Do YOU need to have some blue thread on your garments at all time ?

I don't.
I need to love God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength.
And I need to love my neighbor as I love myself.

 

[Br4nd0n]

I thought it was the atonement law that was done away with; grabbing a ram or two pigeons, and slitting their throats and sprinking the blood on the altar and placing the fat lobe of the liver etc...

Just that was abolished, and everyone, after being justified by faith in Christ, was to continue on their path of sanctification; how they are to live after being justified through faith,

So the Jews continue being Jews and the gentiles continue being gentiles.

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 21:21-24 - English Standard Version

and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs. What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. Do therefore what we tell you. We have...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Hopeful 2]

I thought it was the atonement law that was done away with; grabbing a ram or two pigeons, and slitting their throats and sprinking the blood on the altar and placing the fat lobe of the liver etc...

The priesthood and all the temple edicts had also become passe.
What need was there for priests anymore, now that we can access God ourselves ?

Just that was abolished, and everyone, after being justified by faith in Christ, was to continue on their path of sanctification; how they are to live after being justified through faith,

The "path to sanctification" ends at our sanctification by the blood of Christ.
It is written..."By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." (Heb 10:10)
Our sanctification; (atonement, consecration, being set apart, made holy), occurred at the application of the atoning, consecrating, sanctifying blood of Christ.

So the Jews continue being Jews and the gentiles continue being gentiles.

Christ broke down the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile.
It is written..."Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:" (Eph 2:11-16)

 

[Br4nd0n]

The "path to sanctification" ends at our sanctification by the blood of Christ.
It is written..."By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." (Heb 10:10)
Our sanctification; (atonement, consecration, being set apart, made holy), occurred at the application of the atoning, consecrating, sanctifying blood of Christ.

But sanctification is not a momentary thing, right, it continues on until we die, its the process in how we live our lives after being justified

Christ broke down the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile.

Yes i believe in terms of justification by the blood of Christ. But they were still called to different lifestyles. All that was put on the gentiles was to abstain from sexual immorality and eating blood, idol pollution and strangled animals. Acts 15:20

Yes, ephesians 2:11-16 seems to be talking about justification as far as i can tell. But all through acts you can see paul is still encouraging either to live as they were called. Paul never told jews to stop circumscision, but only that gentiles didnt have to do it, as i cited earlier.

 

[Humblepie]

Yes i believe in terms of justification by the blood of Christ. But they were still called to different lifestyles. All that was put on the gentiles was to abstain from sexual immorality and eating blood, idol pollution and strangled animals. Acts 15:20

Why stop reading there? There is verse 21 that always gets passed over when Christians are trying to remove God's law ( law of moses) from God's will.

To help complete your scripture quote.
Acts 15:21
21 For the ((((law of Moses))) has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”


So they decided to tell new Christians to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood when they enter the faith. Then they will learn the rest of the law in the synagogues on the (((((Sabbath.)))))

You really should
put all of Acts 15 in context when pulling one scripture out.

The context of acts 15 is this.

“Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”


This is the context.

So a Gentile that would normally worship other gods and eat food polluted by idols, engage in sexual immorality, eat the meat of strangled animals and drinking blood was to start with these things first, then learn the way as they mature in the faith.

 

[Humblepie]

gentiles didnt have to do it, as i cited earlier.

They didn't have to do it to be saved.
It's still God's eternal law though.

There is no prerequisite to be saved.

There are rules to follow after though.

We are to follow the teachings of Christ. If other teachings contradict what Christ told us, then it is false. Even if you think Paul taught otherwise, which he didn't.

Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in ((((obedience to the law.)))

Either Paul is a hypocrite, or you interpret his writings incorrectly.

Paul wasn't a hypocrite.

13 And they ((cannot prove)) to you the charges they are now making against me. 14 However,(( I admit )) that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect.

((( I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law))))

and that is written in the Prophets,


Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, ((((we uphold the law.)))))


18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Humblepie]

I thought you were one of those wanting the Law ?
Which side are you on ?

The law isn't the enemy of grace. It is in total harmony with grace. It points to WHY we need a savior.

It's really not that difficult to understand.


Saved by grace through faith.

Obedience because you are saved by grace through faith.

Remember Jesus own words.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


We are graphed into the nation of Israel, we are not a separate body (the church) apart from his congregation. (Israel)


We are the lost sheep.



Ask yourself this.


Who is the Northern kingdom of Israel today?

Where are the Israelites from the Northern kingdom of Israel living today?

Who are a part of the lost sheep in the kingdom of Israel?

Was God's Law given for ALL generations?

Leviticus 3:17 in Other Translations
17 It shall be a statute (((forever))) throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood." 17 “You must never eat any fat or blood. This is a ((((permanent law)))) for you, and it (((must be)))) observed from generation to generation,


Leviticus 23:31
This verse states, "Ye shall do no manner of work; it shall be a statute (((for ever)))) throughout your generations in all your dwellings".


14 “This is a day you are to commemorate; for the (((generations to come))) you ((((shall)))) celebrate it as a festival to the Lord—a ((((lasting ordinance.))))


One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation and also for the stranger who sojourneth with you, an ordinance (((for ever))) in your generations. As ye are, so shall the stranger be before the Lord:



Your word, Lord, is (((eternal;))) it stands firm in the heavens.” (Psalm 119:89)
“Yet you are near, Lord, and ((((all))))) your commands are ((((true.))) Long ago I learned from your statutes that you established them to last ((((forever.”)))) (Psalm 119:151-2)
“All your words are true; all ((((your righteous laws)))) are ((((eternal.))))” (Psalm 119:160)
“Know therefore that the Lord your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of ((((those who love him and keep his commandments.))))” (Deuteronomy 7:9)
“These are the decrees and laws you must be careful to follow in the land that the Lord, the God of your ancestors, has given you to possess—as long as you live in the land.” (Deuteronomy 12:1)
“He remembers his covenant forever, the promise he made, for a thousand generations.” (1 Chronicles 16:15)

 

[Humblepie]

Either his law is forever or only some of the Bible is Truth.

But then we have this as well.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I believe the whole Bible is Truth.
I believe you are saved by grace.
I believe David when he said his law is truth.

I believe David when he said his law is everlasting, eternal.

I Believe Jesus when he said he didn't come to abolish the Law but to fulfill the whole meaning and way to live the law to show us the way to live not only the letter of the law but the spirit of the law.

The spirit of the law requires you to circumcise your heart.

The letter of the law is external. The spirit of the law is internal.

You follow God's law because you want to. (Circumcision of the heart)

If you follow it in spirit, you also follow it in the letter.


Let your light shine to bring others to the faith.

Proverbs 6:23
For the commandment is a lamp,
And the law a light;
Reproofs of instruction are the way of life,


Psalm 119:105
Your word is a lamp to my feet
And a light to my path.

 

[Humblepie]

Those who do not want to submit to God quote verses that seem to say that faith has replaced the requirement of keeping God's law. They mention such verses as Romans 3:20, "Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight"; Romans 7:6, "But now we have been delivered from the law . . . so that we should serve in the newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter"; and Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one who believes." On their face, these scriptures seem to support their argument.

However, they will not quote balancing verses in the same book! Paul also says, "For or not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified" (Romans 2:13), and "Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. . . . For we know that the law is spiritual" (Romans 7:12, 14). Invariably, they leave out Paul's emphatic statement in Romans 3:31: "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law."

They will note that "the law is not of faith" (Galatians 3:12), but they generally avoid Romans 3:27, where Paul says that boasting about righteousness is excluded "by the law of faith." How can a "law . . . not of faith" at the same time be a "law of faith"?

It seems to be quite a paradox! In their ignorance and disobedience, the deceived fail to ask the question Paul does in the first part of Romans 3:27: "By what law?" They fail to perceive that Paul was trying to save the true brethren from wolves in sheep's clothing, Judaizers who were contradicting the faith of Christ. Their purpose was to convert the brethren to their philosophy of salvation that centered on the rituals practiced under the Old Covenant law of Moses.

In reality, then, the paradox dissolves. Paul contrasts the spiritual, Ten Commandment "law of faith" with the temporary law of physical, ritualistic duties, the keeping of which required no faith. This is vital to understand: The apostle Paul describes two distinct sets of law. When reading his arguments, we must always discern "what law" from the context.

He writes of this ritual law in Hebrews 9:9: "It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot [and were never intended to] make him who performed the service perfect in regard to conscience." These temporary laws were "concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation," which Christ inaugurated (verse 10). This law, only "a shadow of the good things to come, . . . can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect" (Hebrews 10:1).

The spiritual "law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul . . . and in keeping [it] there is great reward" (Psalm 19:7, 11), if we believe it and do it. Unlike the ritual law, our keeping God's law of faith produces the attitudes, behaviors, and character that truly please Him. It is partially by our keeping of His law that we "work out [our] own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

Perfection comes by submitting to God's wisdom and believing in His eternal, spiritual law, as Abraham did. Notice James' argument, so reviled by the anti-law Martin Luther: "Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?" (James 2:21-22). The faith of Christ in us is perfected by our works. Abraham believed God enough to keep His commandments, and that lawkeeping faith in him was imputed to him for righteousness (James 2:23).

He continues with the example of Rahab: "You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?" (James 2:24-25). Paul agrees with James when he writes, ". . . the doers of the law will be justified" (Romans 2:13). The doers of what law? The eternal, spiritual, Ten Commandment law!

 

[Br4nd0n]

Why stop reading there? There is verse 21 that always gets passed over when Christians are trying to remove God's law ( law of moses) from God's will.

Your insulting me by projecting this endictment on my intentions, i was trying to have a conversation.
If you want to grow out your sideburns and abstain from bacon to honor God, thats cool, but its not part of my sactification process as a goyim. We all find God the same way (justification) And we all follow God in different ways (sanctification)

EDIT that doesnt mean that im ANTINOMIAL

 

[Hopeful 2]

But sanctification is not a momentary thing, right, it continues on until we die, its the process in how we live our lives after being justified

If one has been "atoned for, made holy, consecrated, and set apart" from the world; why would more atoning, making holy, consecrating, and setting apart, be necessary ?
That is the definition of the word 'sanctify' that I use.

Yes i believe in terms of justification by the blood of Christ. But they were still called to different lifestyles. All that was put on the gentiles was to abstain from sexual immorality and eating blood, idol pollution and strangled animals. Acts 15:20

By "they" you mean the Jews ?
Right ?
What was commanded of them, beyond what the Gentiles were notified about ?
They had been freed from the Mosaic Law as much as any Gentile.
Paul's post-conversion life and writings illustrate that clearly.

Yes, ephesians 2:11-16 seems to be talking about justification as far as i can tell. But all through acts you can see paul is still encouraging either to live as they were called. Paul never told jews to stop circumscision, but only that gentiles didnt have to do it, as i cited earlier.

Tell me this...what does circumcision accomplish ?
How about dietary rules, or feast keeping ?
Nothing !
All the Jews had been made as free from the Law, as Paul was.
If the Jews were still under the Law, then they were not dead to the Law.

It is written..."For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married toanother man.
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God." (Rom 7:2-4)
That applies to both Jew and Gentile.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The law isn't the enemy of grace. It is in total harmony with grace. It points to WHY we need a savior.

Why is it so hard to just answer my question ?
Yes or no... do you want to maintain the Mosaic Law and its hundreds of articles ?

It's really not that difficult to understand.

The Law was our school master, showing us just how evil we WERE, before Christ came to make all men righteous.

Saved by grace through faith.
Obedience because you are saved by grace through faith.
Remember Jesus own words.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
We are grafted into the nation of Israel, we are not a separate body (the church) apart from his congregation. (Israel)
We are the lost sheep.
Ask yourself this.
Who is the Northern kingdom of Israel today?
Where are the Israelites from the Northern kingdom of Israel living today?
Who are a part of the lost sheep in the kingdom of Israel?
Was God's Law given for ALL generations?
Leviticus 3:17 in Other Translations
17 It shall be a statute (((forever))) throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood." 17 “You must never eat any fat or blood. This is a ((((permanent law)))) for you, and it (((must be)))) observed from generation to generation,
Leviticus 23:31
This verse states, "Ye shall do no manner of work; it shall be a statute (((for ever)))) throughout your generations in all your dwellings".
14 “This is a day you are to commemorate; for the (((generations to come))) you ((((shall)))) celebrate it as a festival to the Lord—a ((((lasting ordinance.))))
One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation and also for the stranger who sojourneth with you, an ordinance (((for ever))) in your generations. As ye are, so shall the stranger be before the Lord:
Your word, Lord, is (((eternal;))) it stands firm in the heavens.” (Psalm 119:89)
“Yet you are near, Lord, and ((((all))))) your commands are ((((true.))) Long ago I learned from your statutes that you established them to last ((((forever.”)))) (Psalm 119:151-2)
“All your words are true; all ((((your righteous laws)))) are ((((eternal.))))” (Psalm 119:160)
“Know therefore that the Lord your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of ((((those who love him and keep his commandments.))))” (Deuteronomy 7:9)
“These are the decrees and laws you must be careful to follow in the land that the Lord, the God of your ancestors, has given you to possess—as long as you live in the land.” (Deuteronomy 12:1)
“He remembers his covenant forever, the promise he made, for a thousand generations.” (1 Chronicles 16:15)

Christians are dead to the Law.
No matter if they are Jewish or Gentile.

 

[Humblepie]

Why is it so hard to just answer my question ?
Yes or no... do you want to maintain the Mosaic Law and its hundreds of articles ?

Not my call to make. Ask God that.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Humblepie]

Either his law is forever or only some of the Bible is Truth.

Either his law is forever or only some of the Bible is Truth.



18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Humblepie]

Show me one time that Paul commanded someone to get circumcised to be saved.

Lol, that's what the book of Galatians is all about.


I have never claimed or believed that you had to do anything but believe to be saved.

It's what you do after your saved that will determine if you really are saved.




Another thing, if you to read my post that is NOT my stance. I have clearly and concisely expressed my belief.
Works of the law can't save you.


If you don't produce fruit after you enter the faith you will be cut off and burned.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Justification by faith alone, apart from works of the Law, does not knock the Law down, it stands the Law up.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the (((((will of my Father))))) which is in heaven.


Till heaven and earth pass,

 

[secretmessenger]

Lol, that's what the book of Galatians is all about.


I have never claimed or believed that you had to do anything but believe to be saved.

It's what you do after your saved that will determine if you really are saved.




Another thing, if you to read my post that is NOT my stance. I have clearly and concisely expressed my belief.
Works of the law can't save you.


If you don't produce fruit after you enter the faith you will be cut off and burned.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.



21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the (((((will of my Father))))) which is in heaven.


Till heaven and earth pass,

Very interesting reads, I think you are onto something here. I always try to take into account the why behind the commandments. I see something here about when it was mentioned that God has written His law in our hearts, it seems to me that even if a person had not known the old Testament law that one is predisposed to obey it after salvation, the law being summarized by thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and will all thy mind and with all thy strength, and to love thy neighbors as thyself.

I'm still not sure if the dietary law applies, it seems to me that this was put in place to protect the people from the idolatry and disease of their day.