Some Won't Get Saved

[JLB]

For your supposition to be correct and in line with God's word, there would be no reference in scripture as to God having predestined, foreordained, anything at all as relates to God and man.

A repost from another thread —


This had nothing to do with salvation, but had to do with God choosing Jacob over Esau for His purpose; the purpose being the lineage of people through whom the Messiah would come.


For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”
And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac, (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” Romans 9:3-13

• that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

What purpose ?

• of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came

Election has to do with God choosing some over others for His purpose, not choosing some over others for salvation; Jacob was better suited for God’s purpose.





JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

I leave you to your preferred Exegesis.
God Bless.

And I will leave you to study the scriptures I gave.
God bless you and yours

 

[for_his_glory]

Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Even this verse you provided teaches us that God's predestined His plan through Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world. God's will is that all would repent and turn back to Him beginning with Adam as God predestined us for adoption through Christ according to the purpose of His will. What God has also predestined are those He chooses as using them for the purpose of His will to be done here on earth as it is in heaven.

May I ask, do you follow Orthodox Judaism? Just curious.

 

[Who Me]

Are you disagreeing with me?
First it sounds like God gave the men of Noah's time the opportunity to repent.
Then you say that ultimately it is God who predestines those who will be saved.
Which is it??

Just because God determines who will be saved, does not revoke the responsibility of every person to seek him or to live according to his standards.

 

[Who Me]

But do these persons REALLY believe in an afterlife?

Whether people do or do not believe is irrelevant.

The fact is that God will judge everyone awarding punishments to those who are not his and rewarding those who are his.
What people believe about this does not matter, only God's view is relevant.

 

[Who Me]

Do you think that vs. 29 sounds like God chooses?

Ultimately it is God who determines who is saved.
Is man able to resist God, can we snatch ourselves out of Jesus's hand or separate ourselves from the love of God?

Just who is in charge, God or man?

 

[JLB]

Ultimately it is God who determines who is saved.
Is man able to resist God, can we snatch ourselves out of Jesus's hand or separate ourselves from the love of God?

Just who is in charge, God or man?

Yes, man is able to resist God, to his own destruction.


“You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. Acts 7:51


Yes, people are able to wander away from the Lord and become lost.
This is not anyone “snatching them out of His hand”, it is simply the brother in Christ choosing to walk away, by refusing to turn away from their sin.



“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2


If God the Father, removes someone from Christ, can anyone resist him.





JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Ultimately it is God who determines who is saved.
Is man able to resist God, can we snatch ourselves out of Jesus's hand or separate ourselves from the love of God?

Just who is in charge, God or man?

Ultimately it is God to give to Christ in judging those in whom are already saved. Many resist God as they do not heed Him calling them to His salvation. Only God knows the intent of our hearts.

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[GodsGrace]

Whether people do or do not believe is irrelevant.

The fact is that God will judge everyone awarding punishments to those who are not his and rewarding those who are his.
What people believe about this does not matter, only God's view is relevant.

Of course.
My point was that if someone really believed in an afterlife....I THINK they would tend to give God some serious thought and maybe come to believe in Him and be saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

Just because God determines who will be saved, does not revoke the responsibility of every person to seek him or to live according to his standards.

Where does the N.T. state that God determines who will be saved?

And IF God chooses who will receive salvation, how is it then MY responsibility to seek Him OR live according to His standards?
What good would it do me IF God is going to choose??

You cannot have it both way Who Me.
If God predestines everything that comes about in this life and for every person...
WE cannot be held responsible for doing what God predestined us to do.

IF we are responsible, then God is NOT a just God and we know from scripture that He is.
JUST
MERCIFUL
LOVING

In case of doubt, I'll be happy to post many verses, but I'm hoping this won't be necessary because you agree with me as to God's nature.

 

[Blade]

I often wonder why some persons do not accept God's free gift of salvation.

All that is necessary is to accept it.

Maybe it's fear of letting go and trusting God...
Maybe it's a sin they can't let go of...
They could just be atheist...

Any thoughts?

This thread is a good example of how we each see and understand "God". We all have access to any version of the word yet some see God differently. The chat here about "Pharaoh". Before Moses went in God knew Pharaoh would not listen yet what did God do? Still went and talked to him. We read that BIBLE and oh its so simple to just believe huh. When GOD was talking to Moses.. remember GOD was talking.. Moses told God that he can't speak good and God then tells Him who made the mouth etc. Yet Moses still begged God. So why wont some believe, why some reject Him? Man I have no clue. In Sam God said man only sees the flesh God sees the heart.

I like what Christ said.. if you were blind you would have no sin, you say you see your sin remains. Praise GOD glory to JESUS man gets no say in this. So lets share the LOVE of Christ why He came. This world is His creation and those that know Him are HIs Children. Lets remember this when we talk about people in general. He loves them.. He never gives up on them. John 3 16 is not NT going forward. Everyone in some way gets a chance. There is so much in the word that is not written. So lets not think this GOD that left heaven became His creation would not have gave Pharaoh a chance. He gave you one no?

 

[JLB]

This thread is a good example of how we each see and understand "God". We all have access to any version of the word yet some see God differently. The chat here about "Pharaoh". Before Moses went in God knew Pharaoh would not listen yet what did God do? Still went and talked to him. We read that BIBLE and oh its so simple to just believe huh. When GOD was talking to Moses.. remember GOD was talking.. Moses told God that he can't speak good and God then tells Him who made the mouth etc. Yet Moses still begged God. So why wont some believe, why some reject Him? Man I have no clue. In Sam God said man only sees the flesh God sees the heart.

I like what Christ said.. if you were blind you would have no sin, you say you see your sin remains. Praise GOD glory to JESUS man gets no say in this. So lets share the LOVE of Christ why He came. This world is His creation and those that know Him are HIs Children. Lets remember this when we talk about people in general. He loves them.. He never gives up on them. John 3 16 is not NT going forward. Everyone in some way gets a chance. There is so much in the word that is not written. So lets not think this GOD that left heaven became His creation would not have gave Pharaoh a chance. He gave you one no?

Amen.


Thanks for sharing.

 

[GodsGrace]

This thread is a good example of how we each see and understand "God". We all have access to any version of the word yet some see God differently. The chat here about "Pharaoh". Before Moses went in God knew Pharaoh would not listen yet what did God do? Still went and talked to him. We read that BIBLE and oh its so simple to just believe huh. When GOD was talking to Moses.. remember GOD was talking.. Moses told God that he can't speak good and God then tells Him who made the mouth etc. Yet Moses still begged God. So why wont some believe, why some reject Him? Man I have no clue. In Sam God said man only sees the flesh God sees the heart.

I like what Christ said.. if you were blind you would have no sin, you say you see your sin remains. Praise GOD glory to JESUS man gets no say in this. So lets share the LOVE of Christ why He came. This world is His creation and those that know Him are HIs Children. Lets remember this when we talk about people in general. He loves them.. He never gives up on them. John 3 16 is not NT going forward. Everyone in some way gets a chance. There is so much in the word that is not written. So lets not think this GOD that left heaven became His creation would not have gave Pharaoh a chance. He gave you one no?

Hi Blade,
You kind of speak like my brother,,,also a born again Christian.

He would agree with you, and so do I.

We know very little about God, but He revealed what we need to know and what our minds can comprehend.

Thanks for a great post.

 

[Chocolate Roadrunner]

Even this verse you provided teaches us that God's predestined His plan through Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world. God's will is that all would repent and turn back to Him beginning with Adam as God predestined us for adoption through Christ according to the purpose of His will. What God has also predestined are those He chooses as using them for the purpose of His will to be done here on earth as it is in heaven.

May I ask, do you follow Orthodox Judaism? Just curious.

If I'm not mistaken your prior point was that God has not predestined all things according to his will.

 

[Chocolate Roadrunner]

A repost from another thread —


This had nothing to do with salvation, but had to do with God choosing Jacob over Esau for His purpose; the purpose being the lineage of people through whom the Messiah would come.


For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”
And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac, (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” Romans 9:3-13

• that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

What purpose ?

• of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came

Election has to do with God choosing some over others for His purpose, not choosing some over others for salvation; Jacob was better suited for God’s purpose.





JLB

God's elect are chosen for his purpose.
The Lambs Book of (Eternal)Life was written before the foundation of the world. The named of his elect are written there and before salvation became an issue because the world was not yet created.

 

[for_his_glory]

If I'm not mistaken your prior point was that God has not predestined all things according to his will.

All things are done according to God's will and His purpose in heaven as it is on earth in what and whom He has created for His good pleasure. We were all predestined that we should all be holy and without blame before Him. This is what God predestined/intended within the creation of man, before the fall of Adam who introduced sin into the world. Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world was/is God's predestined plan of His salvation by His free gift of grace by faith in Him and His Son Christ Jesus that all, if they choose, can be reconciled back to God if only they would repent of their sin and confess Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

 

[for_his_glory]

God's elect are chosen for his purpose.
The Lambs Book of (Eternal)Life was written before the foundation of the world. The named of his elect are written there and before salvation became an issue because the world was not yet created.

But don't forget that God can also blot out someone's name from the Lamb's book of life as their hearts are hardened against Him.

Exodus 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Deuteronomy 25:19 Therefore it shall be, when the LORD thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it.

Deuteronomy 29:20 The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.

Psalms 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

[Chocolate Roadrunner]

But don't forget that God can also blot out someone's name from the Lamb's book of life as their hearts are hardened against Him.

Exodus 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Deuteronomy 25:19 Therefore it shall be, when the LORD thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it.

Deuteronomy 29:20 The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.

Psalms 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Yet, those verses do not say God will blot the names of his predetermined elect out of the Lamb's Book of Life.

Remember, Revelation scripture tells us there are many books of God at his judgement seat.

 

[Chocolate Roadrunner]

All things are done according to God's will and His purpose in heaven as it is on earth in what and whom He has created for His good pleasure. We were all predestined that we should all be holy and without blame before Him. This is what God predestined/intended within the creation of man, before the fall of Adam who introduced sin into the world. Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world was/is God's predestined plan of His salvation by His free gift of grace by faith in Him and His Son Christ Jesus that all, if they choose, can be reconciled back to God if only they would repent of their sin and confess Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

But that isn't what is in the scriptures.
Romans 8:28-30.

The Lamb's Book of eternal Life was filled by God with the names of those whom he would save before the world was created.
Everything in Eden was predetermined by God for that book of James to mean something by the will and planning of Omniscient God.


John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."

draws

ἑλκύσῃ (elkusē)

1670: to drag

 

[JLB]

God's elect are chosen for his purpose.
The Lambs Book of (Eternal)Life was written before the foundation of the world. The named of his elect are written there and before salvation became an issue because the world was not yet created.

Some will be blotted out of His book of life.


He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Revelation 3:5



For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:18-19





JLB