Bible Study Sons Of God, Giants & The New World Order - Pt 1

[Maria E Abreu]

Your question is irrelevant since the Bible does refer to men as "gods" and "sons of the Most High," or sons of God.

Please don't call my statements or questions or answers or perspective, irrelevant.



ME

 

[Free]

Yes, I agree that sons of the most high refers to sons of God.

However, Psalm 82 is refering to angels, not descendants of Adam.

God stands in the congregation of the mighty;
He judges among the gods.
2 How long will you judge unjustly,
And show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Defend the poor and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy;
Free them from the hand of the wicked.
5 They do not know, nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are unstable.
6 I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
7 But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth;
For You shall inherit all nations.
Psalms 82:1-8

Clearly you shall die "like" men, does not refer to men.

The context is clear to me, that this is a prophecy against disobedient angel.

I think you would be very hard-pressed to find any scholar who would believe this is talking about angels. This entire passage is about men. They are judges who are said to be God's representatives; I have already given evidence of this. They were judging unjustly and God reminds them that they are mortal, only men.

Are angels ever said to be judges over men?

 

[Maria E Abreu]

Where are giants mentioned? You're presuming that giants can only be offspring if angels are involved. But there is no basis for this.

The scripture say this is how this particular giant was produced.

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4

So when the sons of God, came into the daughters of men, their offspring was a very specific giant. Nephilim.


That is how these [Nephilim] giants were produced.




ME

 

[Maria E Abreu]

I think you would be very hard-pressed to find any scholar who would believe this is talking about angels. This entire passage is about men. They are judges who are said to be God's representatives; I have already given evidence of this. They were judging unjustly and God reminds them that they are mortal, only men.

Are angels ever said to be judges over men?

It says God judges, not angels.

God stands in the congregation of the mighty;
He judges among the gods.
2 How long will you judge unjustly,
And show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Defend the poor and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy;
Free them from the hand of the wicked.
5 They do not know, nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are unstable.
6 I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
7 But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth;
For You shall inherit all nations.
Psalms 82:1-8

Clearly you shall die "like" men, does not refer to men.



ME

 

[Free]

The scripture say this is how this particular giant was produced.

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4

So when the sons of God, came into the daughters of men, their offspring was a very specific giant. Nephilim.


That is how these [Nephilim] giants were produced.

There is little actual support that "giants" is a legitimate translation.

 

[Free]

It says God judges, not angels.

God stands in the congregation of the mighty;
He judges among the gods.
2 How long will you judge unjustly,
And show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Defend the poor and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy;
Free them from the hand of the wicked.
5 They do not know, nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are unstable.
6 I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
7 But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth;
For You shall inherit all nations.
Psalms 82:1-8

I doesn't only say that God judges:

2 How long will you judge unjustly,
And show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Defend the poor and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and needy

I even mentioned that in the post you quoted.

Clearly you shall die "like" men, does not refer to men.

Not at all clearly. You have to first presume that the passage is not speaking of men in order to make that claim.

 

[Maria E Abreu]

There is little actual support that "giants" is a legitimate translation.

Really?

Says who?

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4 NKJV


There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4 KJV


The children of the supernatural beings who had married these women became famous heroes and warriors. They were called Nephilim and lived on the earth at that time and even later. Genesis 6:4 CEV


The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4 NIV



ME

 

[Maria E Abreu]

I doesn't only say that God judges:

2 How long will you judge unjustly,
And show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Defend the poor and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and needy

I even mentioned that in the post you quoted.

It does say God judges.

God stands in the congregation of the mighty;
He judges among the gods.


Now to the gods He says

How long will you judge unjustly,
And show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Defend the poor and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy;
Free them from the hand of the wicked.
5 They do not know, nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are unstable.
6 I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
7 But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”



But you shall die like men, is clear that the gods are not men.



ME

 

[ezrider]

I'm just going to throw out a thought here because I really don't have much interest in this topic. I have seen Maria E Abreu argue that the sons of Adam were referred to as the sons of men and not the sons of God, but she is forgetting about the first son of Adam who could very well be considered as a son of God, and that would be Cain. Of Cain it was said "we have gotten a man from the Lord."

Could the sons of Cain be considered as the sons of God? Why was a mark put upon Cain and no-one was to touch him?

As far as giants go, Albert Einstein was a giant and a man of great renown. Same could be said of Oppenheimer. Men who possessed great insight, understanding and application of Knowledge. I have seen the book of Enoch mentioned; if there was one thing I took from the account in the book of Enoch, is that the angels taught men secret knowledge. Knowledge being the one thing God forbade Adam in the Garden.

 

[Edward]

The word "giant" comes from the Greek rendering of the word "Nephilim."
You can find some information about them at: https://www.gotquestions.org/Nephilim.html
I'm not endorsing their conclusions but it's one place to look among many.
Apparently, the Nephilim were not just terribly big, they were also terribly evil and at least part of the reason for the flood.

iakov the fool

That was a pretty good write up they did there. I don't always agree with gotquestions, but I do on this. It doesn't answer all questions about this topic but neither is all questions answered about many topics. Even the article asks why they did this in the first place and the answer is twofold. The first part is, om my gosh, have you seen our women? They're beautiful! Secondly, they knew that the coming Messiah would have to be born into a pure blood line. To contaminate blood lines would (they hoped) stop the Messiah from coming. From the article:

Why would the demons do such a thing? The Bible does not specifically give us the answer. Demons are evil, twisted beings—so nothing they do should surprise us. As to a distinct motivation, one speculation is that the demons were attempting to pollute the human bloodline in order to prevent the coming of the Messiah. God had promised that the Messiah would one day crush the head of the serpent, Satan (Genesis 3:15). The demons in Genesis 6 were possibly attempting to prevent the crushing of the serpent and make it impossible for a sinless “seed of the woman” to be born. Again, this is not a specifically biblical answer, but it is biblically plausible.../

The book of Enoch gives a lot of details about this situation. Since this is not a salvific issue, there's no harm in reading Enoch for this reason alone. Enoch says that they were so scared of judgment from God about this, that they almost didn't do it. But the women were just too tempting I guess, lol.

There's a growing number of Brothers and Sisters, biblical scholars and Pastors, which theorize that the..."and also after that" means it did continue after the flood...but they're doing it a different way now, in effort to perhaps "loophole" God's judgment on them about touching the women...so they all got disguised as "Aliens" and are doing it biologically now. Abducting people and always diddling with their reproductive systems. (gathering tissue and eggs and stuff). A LOT of abductees all have this same story! This also could explain the cattle mutilations. From what I understand, cow blood is very similar to human blood. They need it for cloning and stuff. (They seek to increase their numbers for their war against God, since they were outnumbered 2/1 from the start when they got booted out of Heaven with 1/3 of the Angels). So there are really no such thing as "Aliens from different planets", they are demonic, they can die physically, and we have authority over them in Christ. Oddly enough, we never hear about Christians being abducted by Aliens, do we? Huh! I wonder why? Lol.

Enoch explains that, this is where all the demons came from. They are the spirits of the Nephilim which perished in the flood. This is why Jesus did a lot of going around casting out demons from people It doesn't say that Jesus went around casting out fallen angels, he cast out demons. their spirits are un-redeemable and bound to wander the earth until judgment day.

I see the big issue with this being, if you want to really understand the NT...you have to understand the OT, the beginning. Then the NT makes much more sense. For God has declared the end from the beginning and the more one delves into this, the more it becomes apparent that that is true.

 

[Free]

It does say God judges.

I know. I never said it didn't.

God stands in the congregation of the mighty;
He judges among the gods.


Now to the gods He says

How long will you judge unjustly,
And show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Defend the poor and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy;
Free them from the hand of the wicked.
5 They do not know, nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are unstable.
6 I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
7 But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”



But you shall die like men, is clear that the gods are not men.

You keep repeating yourself but not actually addressing my points. Are angels ever said to judge men?

 

[ezrider]

You keep repeating yourself but not actually addressing my points. Are angels ever said to judge men?

I can address it. No. In fact Paul says the WE shall judge angels (1Cor 6:3).

 

[Edward]

I'm just going to throw out a thought here because I really don't have much interest in this topic. I have seen @Maria E Abreu argue that the sons of Adam were referred to as the sons of men and not the sons of God, but she is forgetting about the first son of Adam who could very well be considered as a son of God, and that would be Cain. Of Cain it was said "we have gotten a man from the Lord."

My understanding from studying this before was that sons of God defined out as a direct creation by God. Angels are, Adam Himself was, but not any of their children or anone since Adam. Not even Eve since she was taken out of Adam.

Could the sons of Cain be considered as the sons of God? Why was a mark put upon Cain and no-one was to touch him?

Because, vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord. And even though Cain messed up, he did raise his children to be godly.

As far as giants go, Albert Einstein was a giant and a man of great renown. Same could be said of Oppenheimer. Men who possessed great insight, understanding and application of Knowledge. I have seen the book of Enoch mentioned; if there was one thing I took from the account in the book of Enoch, is that the angels taught men secret knowledge. Knowledge being the one thing God forbade Adam in the Garden.

(Einstein was a government schill, lol!) Enoch does say they taught men forbidden knowledge, some of Heavens secrets. If I recall correctly from Enoch, the fallen angels were banished for 70 generations or something like that. There are those that have raised the speculation that this period of time expired sometime around the beginning of the 20th century, and began feeding men more new information, and this could be, because a quick glance at our history shows us that an unprecedented leap in knowledge came to us in the last 100 years or so. That could explain it. We went from swords and spears to black powder muskets in almost 2000 years, the last 100 years we went from black powder muskets to nuclear weapons and their ability to kill you from the cell phone tower as you drive down the street! Something happened about 100-150 years ago that didn't exactly make the news.

I don't think Einstein or Oppenheimer were men of renown to the extent that scripture is speaking of here in Genesis. No these "men" were something else, something...different. Would anything else in history or ancient literature even possible explain it? Well...there's Greek "Mythology", there's that. Apollo, Zeus, All those guys. Mythology huh? Huh. Best selling fiction of the times? I...think not. I think that's what they want us to believe. That would make sense and also fit into the biblical scenario. Those Greeks were writing history.

 

[Edward]

I've had it suggested to me before, that men of renown means men of great accomplishment. Like for ex., Bill Gates is a giant in the computer industry, and so forth. But if that is the case then shouldn't Enoch himself be referred to as a Nephilim?

 

[Free]

Really?

Says who?

Concordances, for one.

"giants — The term in Hebrew implies not so much the idea of great stature as of reckless ferocity, impious and daring characters, who spread devastation and carnage far and wide." (Jamieson-Fausset-Brown)

"There were giants in the earth - נפלים nephilim, from נפל naphal, “he fell.” Those who had apostatized or fallen from the true religion. The Septuagint translate the original word by γιγαντες, which literally signifies earth-born, and which we, following them, term giants, without having any reference to the meaning of the word, which we generally conceive to signify persons of enormous stature. But the word when properly understood makes a very just distinction between the sons of men and the sons of God; those were the nephilim, the fallen earth-born men, with the animal and devilish mind." (Adam Clarke)

When one looks at the root word, naphal, it is indeed hard to see why it is translated as "giant":

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/nas/naphal.html

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4 NKJV


There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4 KJV


The children of the supernatural beings who had married these women became famous heroes and warriors. They were called Nephilim and lived on the earth at that time and even later. Genesis 6:4 CEV

Gen 6:4 The fallen ones were in the earth in those days (YLT)

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (NIV)

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (NRSV)

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (ESV)

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth both in those days (HCSB)

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were in the earth in those days (JPS)

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (NASB)

Most simply say "Nephilim".

It is also worth pointing out that the grammar actually suggests that the Nephilim were already on the earth when the sons of God took the daughters of men. This means that the Nephilim are not the offspring of those unions.

 

[JLB]

but she is forgetting about the first son of Adam who could very well be considered as a son of God, and that would be Cain.

No one is forgetting anything, since the term son of Adam means son of man.

Goodness gracious.

If you have no interest in this subject then great, I respect that.

Please don’t say such things as Cain is a son of God, when the Bible says he is the son of Adam (man).

Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man from the Lord.” Genesis 4:1

Do you believe spiritually dead people can reproduce a son of God ?


JLB

 

[brujaq]

Genesis 6:1-9​

1 And it happened, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and when daughters were born to them,​

2 the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were good. And they took wives for themselves from all whom they chose.​

3 And Yahweh said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, in his erring; he is flesh. Yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.​

4 There were giants in the earth in those days. And also after that, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore to them, they were mighty men who existed of old, men of renown.​

5 And Yahweh saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.​

And Yahweh repented that He had made man on the earth, and He was angry to His heart.​

7 And Yahweh said, I will destroy man whom I have created, from the face of the earth, both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air. For I repent that I have made them.​

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of Yahweh.​

9 These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.​

Keep in mind the word "took" in verse 2. Adam is called a son of God in Luke 3:38. The men doing the taking in Genesis 6 were sons of Adam. In verse 4 it is important to understand the poor translation of giants and men of renown. The Hebrew definitions are listed below.
The men doing the taking were bullies or tyrants and in a conspicuous position or authority. They were probably the leaders. To show this further please read the following from the Book of Jasher. Not that I put faith in Jasher but Enoch either ..

Jasher 4:17-19​

17 And every man made unto himself a god, and they robbed and plundered every man his neighbor as well as his relative, and they corrupted the earth, and the earth was filled with violence.​

18 And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.​

19 And the Lord said, I will blot out man that I created from the face of the earth, yea from man to the birds of the air, together with cattle and beasts that are in the field for I repent that I made them.​

The bullies were going and taking by force any woman they wanted, married or not. Now you also see why God was unhappy with the adulteration that was going on. This is why the scripture makes the point that Noah was perfect in his lineage. Here is one more scripture that should be included.

Philippians 2:15​

"so that you may be blameless and unmixed, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation (race). Among these you shine as lights in the world,"​

Paul was talking to those in Philippi not angels. We will now finish with scripture and definitions.

Matthew 22:30​

For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in Heaven.​

Mark 12:25​

For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but they are as the angels in Heaven.​

Heb 1:5​

For to which of the angels did He say at any time, "You are My Son, this day I have begotten You?" And again, "I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son?"​

giants​

nef-eel', nef-eel'​

From H5307; properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant​

mighty men​

ghib-bore', ghib-bore'​

Intensive from the same as H1397; powerful; by implication warrior, tyrant​

men of renown​

shame​

A primitive word (perhaps rather from H7760 through the idea of definite and conspicuous position; compare H8064); an appellation, as a mark or memorial of individuality; by implication honor, authority, character​

generations​

H8435 to-led-aw', to-led-aw'​

From H3205; (plural only) descent, that is, family; (figuratively) history​

 

[ezrider]

Do you believe spiritually dead people can reproduce a son of God ?

Yes, and No.

A son of Man is one born of the Flesh.
A son of God is one born of the Spirit.



Was Mary Spiritually "Alive" when she gave birth to the Son of Man?

 

[JLB]

Concordances, for one.

"giants — The term in Hebrew implies not so much the idea of great stature as of reckless ferocity, impious and daring characters, who spread devastation and carnage far and wide." (Jamieson-Fausset-Brown)

"There were giants in the earth - נפלים nephilim, from נפל naphal, “he fell.” Those who had apostatized or fallen from the true religion. The Septuagint translate the original word by γιγαντες, which literally signifies earth-born, and which we, following them, term giants, without having any reference to the meaning of the word, which we generally conceive to signify persons of enormous stature. But the word when properly understood makes a very just distinction between the sons of men and the sons of God; those were the nephilim, the fallen earth-born men, with the animal and devilish mind." (Adam Clarke)

When one looks at the root word, naphal, it is indeed hard to see why it is translated as "giant":

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/nas/naphal.html


Gen 6:4 The fallen ones were in the earth in those days (YLT)

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (NIV)

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (NRSV)

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (ESV)

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth both in those days (HCSB)

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were in the earth in those days (JPS)

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (NASB)

Most simply say "Nephilim".

It is also worth pointing out that the grammar actually suggests that the Nephilim were already on the earth when the sons of God took the daughters of men. This means that the Nephilim are not the offspring of those unions.

The way Nephilim came about is when the sons of God came into the daughters of men.


There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
Genesis 6:4

• There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men

Since all the “men” were wiped out in the flood, it’s obvious that the only way for Nephilim to be produced afterward were the sons of God we’re not human, but angelic.


None of Noah’s sons were referred to as sons of God, which Maria pointed out to us, that the spiritually dead can not reproduce sons of God, which if the could then the cross was for nothing.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes, and No.

A son of Man is one born of the Flesh.
A son of God is one born of the Spirit.



Was Mary Spiritually "Alive" when she gave birth to the Son of Man?

Was Adam the father of Jesus?

I don’t think you understood the question.

How can a spiritually dead male and female descendant of Adam reproduce a son of God.

Please think about this question before answering.



JLB