Soul sleep false?

[Edward]

Edward In Luke 16:19-31 don't you find it odd that Hades describes torment only once in the whole entire Bible, and the rest of the time Hades describes the grave. Don't you also find it odd that a person cannot obtain a tongue and a finger without a body present. A spirit does not have a tongue and a finger because our bodies are in the grave. Your thoughts.

Original language:

Unseen place:
Hebrew: sheol
Greek: Hades

Grave:
Hebrew: kever
Greek: mnemeion

1. • There is a separate word for grave in both Hebrew and Greek in distinction from sheol/hades
   • In the New Testament, Hades NEVER means the grave. "mnemeion", which is the Greek word for grave. It is always translated as Hades which meant the underworld.
   • The soul or spirit is never said to go to the grave "mnemeion".
   • The body is never said to go to hades or sheol.
   • Isa. 14:19, the king is cast out of his grave (kever) in order to be thrown into Sheol where the departed spirits can rebuke him (vv.9-10). In this passage, Sheol and kever are opposites, not synonyms. This distinction is maintained in the Septuagint as well. In the Septuagint, Sheol is never translated as mneema, which is the Greek word for grave. It is always translated as Hades which meant the underworld.

 

[Edward]

If a man is dead...how could he be 'rebuked' in sheol? Because his consciousness is being rebuked, as it is not in the grave or non-existent.

 

[DRS81]

Again, there is the natural body and there is a spiritual body.

Again and again, show me scripture where it says we have a spiritual body the moment we die.

An angel can speak and communicate even though they don't have a natural body.

The reason they don't have natural bodies is because they're not human beings. Scripture doesn't say that we turn into angels after we die, we remain human. An angel and a human being are not the same. So comparing the two is not biblical. God's plan and existence for angels and God's plan and existence for human beings are different.

The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Scripture is not saying Lazarus transformed into an angel. NO. Lazarus is still human.
So how is it possible for him to talk and obtain a tongue and a finger if his body is in the grave?
It's not possible, that's why this is a parable, a story being told to teach a lesson of God's wrath.

1 Samuel 28:3-24

Hey Edward. These scriptures are referring to Saul consulting mediums. That's your first clue.

Deuteronomy 18:10-13 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God.

Lev 19:31 "'Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.

Isa 8:19 When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?

Original language:

Unseen place:
Hebrew: sheol
Greek: Hades

Grave:
Hebrew: kever
Greek: mnemeion

1. • There is a separate word for grave in both Hebrew and Greek in distinction from sheol/hades
   • In the New Testament, Hades NEVER means the grave. "mnemeion", which is the Greek word for grave. It is always translated as Hades which meant the underworld.
   • The soul or spirit is never said to go to the grave "mnemeion".
   • The body is never said to go to hades or sheol.
   • Isa. 14:19, the king is cast out of his grave (kever) in order to be thrown into Sheol where the departed spirits can rebuke him (vv.9-10). In this passage, Sheol and kever are opposites, not synonyms. This distinction is maintained in the Septuagint as well. In the Septuagint, Sheol is never translated as mneema, which is the Greek word for grave. It is always translated as Hades which meant the underworld.

First off, where are you getting this information from. Secondly, the Greek dictionary I have says Hades transliteration is the grave, the place of the dead, the underworld. Edward, is it possible that (the grave/the place of the dead/the underworld/the unseen place) all describe one place? Are they not all synonyms of each other? I think you're complicating this further than it should be. https://www.teknia.com/search/node/Hades type:lexicon

If a man is dead...how could he be 'rebuked' in sheol? Because his consciousness is being rebuked, as it is not in the grave or non-existent.

(Isa 14:19 But you are cast out of your tomb like a rejected branch; you are covered with the slain, with those pierced by the sword, those who descend to the stones of the pit. Like a corpse trampled underfoot.) In Isa 14:19 his consciousness is not what's being rebuked. The king of Babylon's (burial) is being rebuked as in he will not be buried in a royal grave, mainly because he has destroyed his country and had killed his own people. People usually bury kings in graves with much honor, but that will not happen to the king of Babylon. They will throw his body away like a bit of dead wood. They will throw it away like dirty clothes.

(Isa 14:9-10 The realm of the dead below is all astir to meet you at your coming; it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—all those who were leaders in the world; it makes them rise from their thrones—all those who were kings over the nations.) This is referring to the spirit of the Antichrist possessing the king of Babylon, similar to the spirit of the king of Tyre Ez 28:1-19 and the spirit of Lucifer Isaiah 14:12-27. Isaiah was permitted by God to see Satan’s arrival into hell, as in Isaiah had a vision of what is to come. Satan isn't in hell yet. Satan will be cast into the Lake of Fire after the 1,000 year reign is over Rev 20:7-10. Satan and his fallen angels are still roaming around on this earth 1 Peter 5:8. - DRS81

 

[Edward]

DRS81 "Hey Edward. These scriptures are referring to Saul consulting mediums. That's your first clue.

Deuteronomy 18:10-13 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God.

Lev 19:31 "'Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.

Isa 8:19 When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?//

So what? You're changing the subject brother. The point is, that Samuel was dead in the grave, and Saul called him up and talked to him. How could he do this if Samuel wasn't conscious? If he was dead in the grave and the resurrection hasn't happened yet? Is the scriptures lying here or something? lol.

I seem to sense that you're not receiving any of this, that you're not willing to set aside what you think you know just long enough to take an honest look at anything else. Being able to raise question to anything, doesn't make you right, it just shows that you have attorney skills. Being able to set aside presuppostions for honest academic study is a skill also. I hesitate to go much further with this because you seem to be more goal oriented in being right rather than seeking the truth.

 

[Butch5]

If a man is dead...how could he be 'rebuked' in sheol? Because his consciousness is being rebuked, as it is not in the grave or non-existent.

Could it be figurative?

 

[DRS81]

The point is, that Samuel was dead in the grave, and Saul called him up and talked to him.

Hi Edward. I will agree with you that Samuel was dead in the grave and then resurrected by the witch. But an important aspect to note here was that Samuel was DEAD. He wasn't in the flame in torture or in Abraham's bosom. Was the witch to summon the spirit of Samuel down from heaven? No. Saul knew the state of the dead, that Samuel was dead in the grave. He was actually asking the witch to call Samuel up from the grave, not down from heaven.” (1 Sam 28:11 Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" He said, "Bring up Samuel for me.") Saul was working in the demonic realm at this point, and that's not good.

I seem to sense that you're not receiving any of this, that you're not willing to set aside what you think you know just long enough to take an honest look at anything else. Being able to raise question to anything, doesn't make you right, it just shows that you have attorney skills. Being able to set aside presuppostions for honest academic study is a skill also. I hesitate to go much further with this because you seem to be more goal oriented in being right rather than seeking the truth.

Peace be with you brother. What about my response to Isa 14:9-10 and Isa 14:19. You had also mentioned these.

 

[Butch5]

Do angels have tongues?

Does God have a tongue?

The body with the fleshly members were buried in the grave.

The spirit man with eyes and tongue and all the spiritual faculties and senses were in hell fully conscience.

rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

This is what Jesus taught.

This is what I believe.

The rich mans body was buried.

The rich mans spirit/soul was conscious in hell. He could see with spiritual eyes and hear with spiritual ears and speak words.


JLB

This is also what Jesus said,

KJV Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. (Luk 24:39 KJV)

If a spirit does not have flesh and bones how does the rich man have a tongue and Lazarus have a finger? We'd also have to ask how Abraham has a mouth?

 

[Butch5]

I would agree that, loosely speaking...the opposite of life is death. But when we throw the almighty God into the equation...who can know?

I found the scripture! It was Samuel. Have a look brother.

1 Samuel 28:3-15
3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land.

4 And the Philistines gathered themselves together, and came and pitched in Shunem: and Saul gathered all Israel together, and they pitched in Gilboa.

5 And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled.

6 And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.

9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?

10 And Saul sware to her by the Lord, saying, As the Lord liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.

11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.

12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.../(KJV)

Eh?

Edward,

Notice what the woman saw coming up, it was "eloheem", gods. According to the OT and the NT, the gods were demons.

17 They sacrificed to demons, not to God, To gods they did not know, To new gods, new arrivals That your fathers did not fear. (Deu 32:17 NKJ)

20 Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. (1Co 10:20 NKJ)

 

[DRS81]

Edward,

Notice what the woman saw coming up, it was "eloheem", gods. According to the OT and the NT, the gods were demons.

17 They sacrificed to demons, not to God, To gods they did not know, To new gods, new arrivals That your fathers did not fear. (Deu 32:17 NKJ)

20 Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. (1Co 10:20 NKJ)

Ha, I didn't think about that. Good point. 1 Sam 28:13 The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.”

 

[Edward]

Do demons wear mantles?

 

[Butch5]

Ha, I didn't think about that. Good point. 1 Sam 28:13 The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.”

Hi DRS81,

yep, 1 Chronicles also speaks to this.

YLT 1 Chronicles 10:13 And Saul dieth because of his trespass that he trespassed against Jehovah, against the word of Jehovah that he kept not, and also for asking at a familiar spirit -- to inquire, -- (1Ch 10:13 YLT)

 

[Butch5]

Do demons wear mantles?

Was it wearing a mantle or was the demon influencing the woman's mind? We know from Scripture that demons can take control of a human being. We know from Scripture that a demon can make a person speak what it wants.

13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, "We1 exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches."
14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, "Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?"
16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered1 them, and prevailed against them2, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. (Act 19:13-16 NKJ)

2 And when He had come out of the boat, immediately there met Him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no one could bind him1, not even with chains,
4 because he had often been bound with shackles and chains. And the chains had been pulled apart by him, and the shackles broken in pieces; neither could anyone tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains and in the tombs, crying out and cutting himself with stones.
6 When he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped Him.
7 And he cried out with a loud voice and said, "What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God that You do not torment me."
8 For He said to him, "Come out of the man, unclean spirit!"
9 Then He asked him, "What is your name?" And he answered, saying, "My name is Legion; for we are many."
10 Also he begged Him earnestly that He would not send them out of the country.
11 Now a large herd of swine was feeding there near the mountains.
12 So all the demons begged Him, saying, "Send us to the swine, that we may enter them."
13 And at once Jesus1 gave them permission. Then the unclean spirits went out and entered the swine (there were about two thousand); and the herd ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and drowned in the sea. (Mar 5:2-13 NKJ)

 

[DRS81]

Butch5 I was also thinking about Gen 3:1, how the devil disguised himself as a serpent. So why not use Samuel's body to deceive Saul.

 

[Butch5]

Butch5 I was also thinking about Gen 3:1, how the devil disguised himself as a serpent. So why not use Samuel's body to deceive Saul.

Saul never saw Samuel. The women described what she saw and Saul perceived it was Samuel. If it was the demon speaking he could easily describe Samuel and then pretend to be Samuel..

 

[DRS81]

Saul never saw Samuel. The women described what she saw and Saul perceived it was Samuel. If it was the demon speaking he could easily describe Samuel and then pretend to be Samuel..

So when the woman saw a god coming out of the earth, what do you think it was. I can only think of three options. (1) Samuel himself literally resurrected, (2) The body of Samuel resurrected possessed by a demon or (3) Saul's heart was to the point of delusional, believing anything he hears.

 

[JLB]

Hi Edward. I will agree with you that Samuel was dead in the grave and then resurrected by the witch. But an important aspect to note here was that Samuel was DEAD. He wasn't in the flame in torture or in Abraham's bosom. Was the witch to summon the spirit of Samuel down from heaven? No. Saul knew the state of the dead, that Samuel was dead in the grave. He was actually asking the witch to call Samuel up from the grave, not down from heaven.” (1 Sam 28:11 Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" He said, "Bring up Samuel for me.") Saul was working in the demonic realm at this point, and that's not good.



Peace be with you brother. What about my response to Isa 14:9-10 and Isa 14:19. You had also mentioned these.

Samuel's body was dead just as Jesus taught that the rich man's body was dead, as well as Abraham.

These all continued to be aware and speak and listen and respond even though their body was dead.

Moses was buried, yet he appeared to Jesus and Peter on the mount of transfiguration.

Scripture after scripture has been presented to you, yet you never address the truth of what these scriptures teach.

Why?


JLB

 

[DRS81]

Samuel's body was dead just as Jesus taught that the rich man's body was dead, as well as Abraham.

These all continued to be aware and speak and listen and respond even though their body was dead.

Hi JLB. Peace brother. Where in 1 Samuel 28:3-24 does it mention Abraham's Bosom.

Luke 16:19-31 Hades - This parable is just that, it's a parable and it is not describing the afterlife between death and the first resurrection as many might see. A parable is a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson. Jesus was rebuking the Jewish leadership and speaking of the kingdom being taken from the Jews. Jesus was drawing on an OT passage that they would be very familiar with. In Deuteronomy there is what is known as the song of Moses. The song of Moses speaks of Israel's rebellion against God, in it we find this passage in which Jesus was referring to..Deuteronomy 32:16-27. The word translated (hell) in this passage is Sheol in Hebrew. The Hebrew and Greek definition of Sheol and Hades is the grave or the abode of the dead, but since Luke 16:23 is the only time Hades is used in the Bible to describe torment it is in fact teaching a moral lesson, and this is the lesson...

God said a fire is kindled in my anger and shall burn to the lowest Sheol. This passage is speaking of Israel's rejection of God, and Jesus is alluding to this, the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Deuteronomy 32:22 is a metaphor meaning that there is nowhere they can go to escape God's wrath. In other words it is absolutely certain.

Moses was buried, yet he appeared to Jesus and Peter on the mount of transfiguration.

The transfiguration in Matt 17:1-13 is a vision of what is to come.
It's describing the rapture and the first resurrection.
A vision is described as (that which will or may come to be), (anticipation)..

vi·sion - noun
1. the act or power of sensing with the eyes; sight.
2. the act or power of anticipating that which will or may come to be: prophetic vision; the vision of an entrepreneur.
3. an experience in which a personage, thing, or event appears vividly or credibly to the mind, although not actually present, often under the influence of a divine or other agency: a heavenly messenger appearing in a vision. Compare hallucination ( def 1 ) .
4. something seen or otherwise perceived during such an experience: The vision revealed its message.
5. a vivid, imaginative conception or anticipation: visions of wealth and glory.

Transfiguration and transformation both come from the Greek verb metamorphoo, meaning “to change into another form.”

While the transfiguration doesn’t directly give us information on the state of the dead, it retains theological significance nonetheless. When Peter recounted his experience in 2 Peter 1:16–18, he writes that he witnessed Christ’s coming at that time. In other words, he understood the experience to represent the return of Jesus Christ. Moses and Elijah represent the two classes of God’s people who will be present at that miraculous event: Moses represents the “dead in Christ” who rise to new life, and Elijah represents “those who are alive and remain” who will be translated to heaven and eternal life without ever experiencing death in the first place (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Understanding that the transfiguration is a representation of the second coming of Christ also helps us understand Christ’s promise that “some standing here … shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God,” spoken a few days before the transfiguration (Luke 9:27).

When we understand the profound significance of this event in light of what Moses and Elijah represent, we can gain an understanding of the nature of death as a result. There would be no need of a bodily resurrection if everyone immediately went to heaven to live in Christ’s presence at death; similarly, translation to heaven would have no special significance because everyone would go to heaven immediately upon death. Moses and Elijah act as evidence that death brings a sleep of unconsciousness while the sleeping saints await the return of Jesus Christ.

Moses upon the mount of transfiguration was a witness to Christ’s victory over sin and death. He represented those who shall come forth from the grave at the resurrection of the just. Elijah, who had been translated to heaven without seeing death, represented those who will be living upon the earth at Christ’s second coming, and who will be “changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet;” when “this mortal must put on immortality,” and “this corruptible must put on incorruption.” 1 Corinthians 15:51-53. Jesus was clothed with the light of heaven, as He will appear when He shall come “the second time without sin unto salvation.” For He will come “in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.” Hebrews 9:28, KJV; Mark 8:38. The Saviour’s promise to the disciples was now fulfilled. Upon the mount the future kingdom of glory was represented in miniature—Christ the King, Moses a representative of the risen saints, and Elijah of the translated ones.

 

[JLB]

Hi JLB. Peace brother. Where in 1 Samuel 28:3-24 does it mention Abraham's Bosom.

Luke 16:19-31 Hades - This parable is just that, it's a parable and it is not describing the afterlife between death and the first resurrection as many might see. A parable is a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson. Jesus was rebuking the Jewish leadership and speaking of the kingdom being taken from the Jews. Jesus was drawing on an OT passage that they would be very familiar with. In Deuteronomy there is what is known as the song of Moses. The song of Moses speaks of Israel's rebellion against God, in it we find this passage in which Jesus was referring to..Deuteronomy 32:16-27. The word translated (hell) in this passage is Sheol in Hebrew. The Hebrew and Greek definition of Sheol and Hades is the grave or the abode of the dead, but since Luke 16:23 is the only time Hades is used in the Bible to describe torment it is in fact teaching a moral lesson, and this is the lesson...

God said a fire is kindled in my anger and shall burn to the lowest Sheol. This passage is speaking of Israel's rejection of God, and Jesus is alluding to this, the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Deuteronomy 32:22 is a metaphor meaning that there is nowhere they can go to escape God's wrath. In other words it is absolutely certain.



The transfiguration in Matt 17:1-13 is a vision of what is to come.
It's describing the rapture and the first resurrection.
A vision is described as (that which will or may come to be), (anticipation)..

vi·sion - noun
1. the act or power of sensing with the eyes; sight.
2. the act or power of anticipating that which will or may come to be: prophetic vision; the vision of an entrepreneur.
3. an experience in which a personage, thing, or event appears vividly or credibly to the mind, although not actually present, often under the influence of a divine or other agency: a heavenly messenger appearing in a vision. Compare hallucination ( def 1 ) .
4. something seen or otherwise perceived during such an experience: The vision revealed its message.
5. a vivid, imaginative conception or anticipation: visions of wealth and glory.

Transfiguration and transformation both come from the Greek verb metamorphoo, meaning “to change into another form.”

While the transfiguration doesn’t directly give us information on the state of the dead, it retains theological significance nonetheless. When Peter recounted his experience in 2 Peter 1:16–18, he writes that he witnessed Christ’s coming at that time. In other words, he understood the experience to represent the return of Jesus Christ. Moses and Elijah represent the two classes of God’s people who will be present at that miraculous event: Moses represents the “dead in Christ” who rise to new life, and Elijah represents “those who are alive and remain” who will be translated to heaven and eternal life without ever experiencing death in the first place (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Understanding that the transfiguration is a representation of the second coming of Christ also helps us understand Christ’s promise that “some standing here … shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God,” spoken a few days before the transfiguration (Luke 9:27).

When we understand the profound significance of this event in light of what Moses and Elijah represent, we can gain an understanding of the nature of death as a result. There would be no need of a bodily resurrection if everyone immediately went to heaven to live in Christ’s presence at death; similarly, translation to heaven would have no special significance because everyone would go to heaven immediately upon death. Moses and Elijah act as evidence that death brings a sleep of unconsciousness while the sleeping saints await the return of Jesus Christ.

Moses upon the mount of transfiguration was a witness to Christ’s victory over sin and death. He represented those who shall come forth from the grave at the resurrection of the just. Elijah, who had been translated to heaven without seeing death, represented those who will be living upon the earth at Christ’s second coming, and who will be “changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet;” when “this mortal must put on immortality,” and “this corruptible must put on incorruption.” 1 Corinthians 15:51-53. Jesus was clothed with the light of heaven, as He will appear when He shall come “the second time without sin unto salvation.” For He will come “in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.” Hebrews 9:28, KJV; Mark 8:38. The Saviour’s promise to the disciples was now fulfilled. Upon the mount the future kingdom of glory was represented in miniature—Christ the King, Moses a representative of the risen saints, and Elijah of the translated ones.

Moses and Elijah were alive and spoke to Jesus during His earthly ministry.

This was not about the future but rather is His day as He walked the earth.

Peter was so moved and affected as to want to build a tabernacle for each.


Samuel came up from the earth and spoke with Saul.

This is what the scriptures teach.

The heart of the earth is where Abraham's bosom was and where Abraham went until Jesus descended down and took captivity captive when He ascended.

Abraham was in Abraham's Bosom before Samuel died.


JLB

 

[jeff77]

One thing I noticed that since the story of Lazarus and the richman has come up so much, is that nobody has mentioned the fact that Lazarus really did die and was really resurrected by Jesus.

 

[Kathi]

One thing I noticed that since the story of Lazarus and the richman has come up so much, is that nobody has mentioned the fact that Lazarus really did die and was really resurrected by Jesus.

Those who advocate soul sleep don't want to hear that.