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Soul Sleep yes or no?

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Runningman said:
Common Christian thought on the matter is that, according to verses like 1 Peter 2:24, Jesus took the punishment for our sins that we deserve. However, I have seen very few people mention is that Jesus didn't go into eternal conscious torment in hell, which is another common Christian belief about what our punishment for sin is supposed to be. Therefore, either Jesus didn't take the punishment we deserve or the idea of what the punishment Jesus took on our behalf is not accurate. As a result, eternal conscious torment in hell is not accurate.

So what happened to Jesus? Hebrews 5:7 says, "During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence."

However, Jesus was not saved from the physical death of the cross. No. God heard his prayer because Jesus reveres Him. God, in turn, saved Jesus from the death of his soul in the afterlife. Isaiah 53:9-12 says YHWH crushed Jesus and made his soul a sin offering. Jesus died, body, mind, and soul. But why would God allow this to happen?

This happened because only those who are guilty of sin deserve death according to Romans 6:23. Therefore, since Jesus never even sinned one time, yet death still received Jesus, death itself actually sinned. Now death can be destroyed. In the end, death itself will be cast into the lake of fire where it, too, will die as a result of its sin against God, according to Revelation 20:14. This legal loophole needed to be exploited to trick death into violating God's laws. Thus, it was impossible for death to hold Jesus in its clutches. Therefore, God resurrected Jesus.

So this idea about Jesus being the substitute is correct, not clearly explained very often.

What do we get out of it? In the age to come, those who are counted worthy, will be resurrected and receive the gift of eternal life, never to die again even if they wanted to, and will be children of God and a brother or sister to Jesus.

Luke 20​
35But those who are considered worthy to share in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage. 36In fact, they can no longer die, because they are like the angels. And since they are sons of the resurrection, they are sons of God.​

So yes, Jesus did indeed need to be saved from death because he isn't God. Who Jesus is is God's holy one, His Messiah, His Servant, and His Son.
Click to expand...
Also for LeviR

How was Jesus saved from death?
Sounds like you don't mean physical death.
So His soul was saved from death?
But all of the souls of believers are saved from death.
What do you believe is the difference?
 
Runningman said:
Common Christian thought on the matter is that, according to verses like 1 Peter 2:24, Jesus took the punishment for our sins that we deserve. However, I have seen very few people mention is that Jesus didn't go into eternal conscious torment in hell, which is another common Christian belief about what our punishment for sin is supposed to be. Therefore, either Jesus didn't take the punishment we deserve or the idea of what the punishment Jesus took on our behalf is not accurate. As a result, eternal conscious torment in hell is not accurate.

So what happened to Jesus? Hebrews 5:7 says, "During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence."

However, Jesus was not saved from the physical death of the cross. No. God heard his prayer because Jesus reveres Him. God, in turn, saved Jesus from the death of his soul in the afterlife. Isaiah 53:9-12 says YHWH crushed Jesus and made his soul a sin offering. Jesus died, body, mind, and soul. But why would God allow this to happen?

This happened because only those who are guilty of sin deserve death according to Romans 6:23. Therefore, since Jesus never even sinned one time, yet death still received Jesus, death itself actually sinned. Now death can be destroyed. In the end, death itself will be cast into the lake of fire where it, too, will die as a result of its sin against God, according to Revelation 20:14. This legal loophole needed to be exploited to trick death into violating God's laws. Thus, it was impossible for death to hold Jesus in its clutches. Therefore, God resurrected Jesus.

So this idea about Jesus being the substitute is correct, not clearly explained very often.

What do we get out of it? In the age to come, those who are counted worthy, will be resurrected and receive the gift of eternal life, never to die again even if they wanted to, and will be children of God and a brother or sister to Jesus.

Luke 20​
35But those who are considered worthy to share in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage. 36In fact, they can no longer die, because they are like the angels. And since they are sons of the resurrection, they are sons of God.​

So yes, Jesus did indeed need to be saved from death because he isn't God. Who Jesus is is God's holy one, His Messiah, His Servant, and His Son.
Click to expand...
Jesus was saved from death when he was raised from the dead to eternal life. In other words, his soul(life,person) was not abandoned in the grave.
 
LeviR said:
Jesus was saved from death when he was raised from the dead to eternal life. In other words, his soul(life,person) was not abandoned in the grave.
Click to expand...
Exactly, after three days of being dead God resurrected him after he took the temporary punishment for our sins.
 
Last edited:
GodsGrace said:
Also for LeviR

How was Jesus saved from death?
Sounds like you don't mean physical death.
So His soul was saved from death?
But all of the souls of believers are saved from death.
What do you believe is the difference?
Click to expand...
I believe the judgement to eternal life is works based. Yes of course being a believer is required, but Jesus also taught that keeping God’s commandments are required as well when he was asked how to receive eternal life in Matthew 19.

This is why it is only those who are worthy of being resurrected in the age to come cannot die in Luke 20:35,36

Paul talked about the same idea in Romans 2:6-8 - that God will repay each according to their deeds. Those who pursue goodness, eternal life. Those who don’t, wrath.
 
follower said:
Find the original word.
He never described where they would be today.

And since neither Jesus nor the thief went to heaven nor to paradise at all for some time period longer than a day, that rules out the false teachings for those who are seeking Truth and Life in Jesus.
Oh, there are billions of people on earth who believe false teachings, and are supported or depend on that system that teaches them false teachings....
and there are remaining few on earth who are set free from the false teachings.
Click to expand...
Why do you consider only the body as "them" ?
I don't consider the vessel I am in as "me".
 
Hopeful 2 said:
Wasn't His suffering and death enough of a punishment ?
The punishment was fulfilled, so isn't temporary.
Click to expand...
Not sure what you mean. You said the punishment was fulfilled so it isn't temporary. The punishment had a beginning and ending point didn't it? Jesus isn't dead or suffering now.
 
Runningman said:
Not sure what you mean. You said the punishment was fulfilled so it isn't temporary. The punishment had a beginning and ending point didn't it? Jesus isn't dead or suffering now.
Click to expand...
Yeah.
His punishment for our sins wasn't eternal punishment.
Perhaps you meant "the punishing" for our sins was temporary. ?

I guess I just have never heard the phrase "the temporary punishment for our sins". :shrug
 
Hopeful 2 said:
Yeah.
His punishment for our sins wasn't eternal punishment.
Perhaps you meant "the punishing" for our sins was temporary. ?

I guess I just have never heard the phrase "the temporary punishment for our sins". :shrug
Click to expand...
The punishing and the punishment weren't eternal. I worded it like "the temporary punishment for our sins" to add clarification about what the punishment is, contrary to the often said "eternal punishment" for sins that doesn't actually exist.
 
The punishment is for sin that remains unpaid for.
It is eternal in the sense that after execution/ after perishing/ after being destroyed in the lake of fire/ there is not life.
 
Runningman said:
The punishing and the punishment weren't eternal. I worded it like "the temporary punishment for our sins" to add clarification about what the punishment is, contrary to the often said "eternal punishment" for sins that doesn't actually exist.
Click to expand...
Eternal punishment doesn't exist for Jesus, but it sure does for the disobedient. (Mark 3:29)
 
Hopeful 2 said:
Eternal punishment doesn't exist for Jesus, but it sure does for the disobedient. (Mark 3:29)
Click to expand...
If by eternal punishment you mean death, then yes. Otherwise, no. The punishment Jesus took for sinners was death. Jesus died in every sense of the word then God resurrected him.
 
Runningman said:
If by eternal punishment you mean death, then yes. Otherwise, no. The punishment Jesus took for sinners was death. Jesus died in every sense of the word then God resurrected him.
Click to expand...
Some things are worse than death.
The second death will consist of eternal punishment without a hope for a reprieve.
 
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