Soul Sleep yes or no?

[Runningman]

Some things are worse than death.
The second death will consist of eternal punishment without a hope for a reprieve.

The second death is dying yet again after the resurrection to judgement. The lake of fire represents the second death.

Revelation is a bit unique like this. It’ll say something is something else because the idea is it’s representative not necessarily literal. Like this:

Revelation 19
8She was given clothing of fine linen,
bright and pure.”
For the fine linen she wears is the righteous acts of the saints.

 

[LeviR]

So you think that "ash" suffers ? (Mark 3:29)

Once the chaff is burned it blows away in the wind.

 

[LeviR]

The second death is dying yet again after the resurrection to judgement. The lake of fire represents the second death.

Revelation is a bit unique like this. It’ll say something is something else because the idea is it’s representative not necessarily literal. Like this:

Revelation 19
8She was given clothing of fine linen,
bright and pure.”
For the fine linen she wears is the righteous acts of the saints.

The only ones to suffer a second death are those who had first entered covenant with God.
Those who haven’t entered into covenant die only one death. If there’s no agreement there’s no life, only death.
The second death is for those who were in covenant but were not faithful to it.
They get burned up like the chaff. And are like ashes in the wind.

 

[Runningman]

The only ones to suffer a second death are those who had first entered covenant with God.
Those who haven’t entered into covenant die only one death. If there’s no agreement there’s no life, only death.
The second death is for those who were in covenant but were not faithful to it.
They get burned up like the chaff. And are like ashes in the wind.

I recall you saying that the second death is for those in a covenant with God. I need to look into that idea a little more, but the rest I for sure agree with. Can you give me an idea why you say that, please?

 

[LeviR]

I recall you saying that the second death is for those in a covenant with God. I need to look into that idea a little more, but the rest I for sure agree with. Can you give me an idea why you say that, please?

Before God made covenant with Israel at Sinai, He made covenant with Abraham. The covenant with Abraham is the only covenant whereby the promises made in both covenants can be obtained.
To seek the inheritance by the covenant at Sinai is futile. It was given to show the Jews their own inability to keep it through the laws of it.
Christ is the promised seed of the covenant with Abraham by which that covenant comes to be effective.
We enter into that covenant by faith, just as Abraham had. We must understand and believed the promises and accept the terms of it. We enter into Christ by being baptized into him in faith and therefore become children of Abraham and sons of God.

 

[LeviR]

I recall you saying that the second death is for those in a covenant with God. I need to look into that idea a little more, but the rest I for sure agree with. Can you give me an idea why you say that, please?

I had wondered why the new testament or new covenant is called “new” if it is older than the covenant made at Sinai.
But I discovered why. It’s because the covenant made with Abraham laid barren and ineffective until the seed should come through whom the covenant is brought into force by the death of the testator of the covenant, Christ.
The covenant is not new in the sense of being an entirely new covenant but in the sense of newly being brought into force.
Which if you look at the definition of “new” you will see.

 

[Runningman]

I had wondered why the new testament or new covenant is called “new” if it is older than the covenant made at Sinai.
But I discovered why. It’s because the covenant made with Abraham laid barren and ineffective until the seed should come through whom the covenant is brought into force by the death of the testator of the covenant, Christ.
The covenant is not new in the sense of being an entirely new covenant but in the sense of newly being brought into force.
Which if you look at the definition of “new” you will see.

The New Covenant wasn't brought into force until Jesus bled on the cross. Hebrews 9 goes into a lot of wordy details about this. While there may have been some foreshadowing about a New Covenant in the Old Testament and it no doubt existed in God's foreknowledge, it didn't come into force until later.

Matthew 26
28This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[LeviR]

The New Covenant wasn't brought into force until Jesus bled on the cross. Hebrews 9 goes into a lot of wordy details about this. While there may have been some foreshadowing about a New Covenant in the Old Testament and it no doubt existed in God's foreknowledge, it didn't come into force until later.

Matthew 26
28This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

The interesting thing about this is that the covenant did not become effective until Christ died, yet there are those who claim that many saints were going to heaven long before Christ died and brought into force the covenant.
No one could possibly go to heaven until the covenant is brought to effectiveness by the death of the testator. And this is also why the story of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The second death is dying yet again after the resurrection to judgement.

Right: some get eternal life with Christ while others get a second death and a lake of fire.

The lake of fire represents the second death.

OK.

Revelation is a bit unique like this. It’ll say something is something else because the idea is it’s representative not necessarily literal. Like this:
Revelation 19
8She was given clothing of fine linen,
bright and pure.”
For the fine linen she wears is the righteous acts of the saints.

OK.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Once the chaff is burned it blows away in the wind.

Those not found in the book of life won't be going anywhere but the lake of fire.

 

[LeviR]

Those not found in the book of life won't be going anywhere but the lake of fire.

And just like chaff that is burned exists no more.

 

[Hopeful 2]

And just like chaff that is burned exists no more.

I am sure all the disobedient hope that.

 

[7thMoon]

I am sure all the disobedient hope that.

Which is worse? existence or non existence. I am sure you are being judgmental.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Which is worse? existence or non existence. I am sure you are being judgmental.

Existence, especially if it is in a lake of fire.
Being able to judge, righteously, is part and parcel of being reborn of God's seed. (1 Cor 2:15)

 

[7thMoon]

Existence, especially if it is in a lake of fire.
Being able to judge, righteously, is part and parcel of being reborn of God's seed. (1 Cor 2:15)

I can't imagine non-existence, but it might be everlasting pain, but everlasting punishment means there is hope. Hope makes the torture to be crueler. The Most High might be petty, but you have not proof that he is that cruel.

 

[follower]

I can't imagine non-existence, but it might be everlasting pain, but everlasting punishment means there is hope. Hope makes the torture to be crueler. The Most High might be petty, but you have not proof that he is that cruel.

He is Perfect in Judgment, and Perfect in Mercy. He is Creator, and Chooses and has Mercy upon whom He Chooses, and He Hardens whom He hardens, with perfect RIGHTNESS, RIGHTIOUSNESS, and JUSTICE.

He Choose to send His Perfect Son Jesus as a Perfect Sacrifice for the sins of those who sinned, but not all.

Not all, as He States Clearly Throughout His Word, His Plan, in His Pneuma/Spirit, In His Son Jesus.

Those who He Destroys , their body and soul destroyed forever, in the lake of fire (or otherwise),
are POOF! GONE! never to be seen nor even remembered again, ever.

 

[7thMoon]

He is Perfect in Judgment, and Perfect in Mercy. He is Creator, and Chooses and has Mercy upon whom He Chooses, and He Hardens whom He hardens, with perfect RIGHTNESS, RIGHTIOUSNESS, and JUSTICE.

He Choose to send His Perfect Son Jesus as a Perfect Sacrifice for the sins of those who sinned, but not all.

Not all, as He States Clearly Throughout His Word, His Plan, in His Pneuma/Spirit, In His Son Jesus.

Those who He Destroys , their body and soul destroyed forever, in the lake of fire (or otherwise),
are POOF! GONE! never to be seen nor even remembered again, ever.

There are things which God does well. But if you look at the book of Job, he is petty and efficient. It is his prerogative.

 

[follower]

There are things which God does well. But if you look at the book of Job, he is petty and efficient. It is his prerogative.

That opinion is centuries old, noted, and is opposed to all that The Creator Himself Reveals in All His Word.

 

[7thMoon]

That opinion is centuries old, noted, and is opposed to all that The Creator Himself Reveals in All His Word.

The creator has more than word, and you would and do defame him into a simpleton with thy idolatries.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I can't imagine non-existence, but it might be everlasting pain, but everlasting punishment means there is hope. Hope makes the torture to be crueler. The Most High might be petty, but you have not proof that he is that cruel.

How can everlasting punishment breed hope ?
God has given mankind thousands of years to quit hurting each other.
He made it known long ago that all men will be judged on their behavior.
Man's eternal suffering won't be a surprise to anyone.
Man has made it known he will take his punishment for his disobedience of God.
Thankfully, He also made the ways and means of perfect obedience to God available to men too.