Soul Sleep yes or no?

[Runningman]

sin is a violation of God's law. The 10 Commandments are still in effect. Did you know that?

Did you forget that The 10 commandments were in effect when Jesus was found in violation ?
Why wouldn't you think He was guilty as charged ?

An accusation isn't the same as violating the the law and sinning. Providing food for oneself and his brothers is good and correct. The Sabbath wasn't meant to be a ball and chain, but a blessing. Try not to understand the Sabbath as the bondage the religious establishment framed it as.

 

[Consecrated Life]

An accusation isn't the same as violating the the law and sinning. Providing food for oneself and his brothers is good and correct. The Sabbath wasn't meant to be a ball and chain, but a blessing. Try not to understand the Sabbath as the bondage the religious establishment framed it as.

So simple !
Lol.
And yet according to your theology of Advanced Spiritual Gymnastics the basic human function of sleep could under certain complex conditions qualify as being a violation of the Sabbath

Runningman said:
"In the beginning, it also says God rested from His work on the 7th day, the Sabbath. If resting can't be sleep then sleeping on the sabbath would be considered a violation of the sabbath rest."

Hence why sinning is still possible. Don't like it? I ask you don't derail their thread. Open a new thread.

 

[Runningman]

So simple !
Lol.
And yet according to your theology of Advanced Spiritual Gymnastics the basic human function of sleep could under certain complex conditions qualify as being a violation of the Sabbath

Runningman said:
"In the beginning, it also says God rested from His work on the 7th day, the Sabbath. If resting can't be sleep then sleeping on the sabbath would be considered a violation of the sabbath rest."

It doesn't violate the Sabbath. I guess now you're beginning to see my point. It's in your theology that sleeping is forbidden on the Sabbath because sleeping isn't rest. Hence why what I said is illustrative of the fallacious theology you posted in this thread.

 

[Consecrated Life]

It doesn't violate the Sabbath. I guess now you're beginning to see my point. It's in your theology that sleeping is forbidden on the Sabbath because sleeping isn't rest. Hence why what I said is illustrative of the fallacious theology you posted in this thread.

I never said anything in this thread regarding the Sabbath, orTen Commandments.
If you can't quote me saying that in short order , that would make you a bearer of false witness.
A liar.
Bearing false witness is a sin .
So go ahead and quote me introducing the Sabbath to this thread , or else remain a manifest liar ?

 

[Runningman]

I never said anything in this thread regarding the Sabbath, orTen Commandments.
If you can't quote me saying that in short order , that would make you a bearer of false witness.
A liar.
Bearing false witness is a sin .
So go ahead and quote me introducing the Sabbath to this thread , or else remain a manifest liar ?

I mentioned the 10 commandments and the Sabbath then after that you were all over it. I moved away from it and you brought it back. So in that case, you re-introduced that topic even though it isn't even what this thread is supposed to be about. I suspect you just need a scapegoat because your theology against soul sleep got debunked.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I mentioned the 10 commandments and the Sabbath then I moved away from it

You didn't "move away"
You ran away like the wind,
Like a running man.

 

[Runningman]

You didn't "move away"
You ran away like the wind,
Like a running man.

And yet I am still here. I see we have reached the late stage of thread death characterized by bickering and mud flinging. Are you done yet?

 

[LeviR]

I mentioned the 10 commandments and the Sabbath then after that you were all over it. I moved away from it and you brought it back. So in that case, you re-introduced that topic even though it isn't even what this thread is supposed to be about. I suspect you just need a scapegoat because your theology against soul sleep got debunked.

You’ve shown inclusivity that the scripture, not alone common sense, does indeed refer to rest as sleep.
An intellectually honest person would admit to heaving been in error, but a defiant snake will not

 

[LeviR]

And yet I am still here. I see we have reached the late stage of thread death characterized by bickering and mud flinging. Are you done yet?

seek and you shall find. Follow the blind and you will be lost.

 

[hawkman]

Moderator Note , Lose the snake in the mud talk , please .

TOS1.3: Use self control and focus on reconcilliation when discussing differences. Address the issue, not the person. Do not make derogatory personal remarks or you will be removed from the thread.

 

[LeviR]

And yet I am still here. I see we have reached the late stage of thread death characterized by bickering and mud flinging. Are you done yet?

Truth will always be. If one cannot tell truth from, lie he is lost.

 

[LeviR]

I will soon be eliminated from this site because I speak the truth, and those who can’t defend what they believe will win, temporary.

 

[Runningman]

I will soon be eliminated from this site because I speak the truth, and those who can’t defend what they believe will win, temporary.

Nah you're okay don't worry. lol I am a Unitarian and I have already been warned and threatened a lot because I stand out. Just be on extra good behavior and should be fine.

 

[LeviR]

Nah you're okay don't worry. lol I am a Unitarian and I have already been warned and threatened a lot because I stand out. Just be on extra good behavior and should be fine.

Truth doesn’t stand on good behavior

 

[hawkman]

Moderator note , we have a Politics forum , we do not need politics in Apologetics .
Use TWTS if you are having problems understanding this .

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[GodsGrace]

I will soon be eliminated from this site because I speak the truth, and those who can’t defend what they believe will win, temporary.

You won't be "eliminated" because of what you believe, but because of your attitude toward others.
We have a nice forum.
Be respectful of other members and all will be good.

 

[LeviR]

Nah you're okay don't worry. lol I am a Unitarian and I have already been warned and threatened a lot because I stand out. Just be on extra good behavior and should be fine.

Jesus needed to be saved from death, God doesn’t.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus needed to be saved from death, God doesn’t.

I agree.

 

[LeviR]

I agree.

If Jesus needed to be saved from death himself then he cannot be a substitute for those who have also been condemned to die.

 

[Runningman]

If Jesus needed to be saved from death himself then he cannot be a substitute for those who have also been condemned to die.

Common Christian thought on the matter is that, according to verses like 1 Peter 2:24, Jesus took the punishment for our sins that we deserve. However, I have seen very few people mention is that Jesus didn't go into eternal conscious torment in hell, which is another common Christian belief about what our punishment for sin is supposed to be. Therefore, either Jesus didn't take the punishment we deserve or the idea of what the punishment Jesus took on our behalf is not accurate. As a result, eternal conscious torment in hell is not accurate.

So what happened to Jesus? Hebrews 5:7 says, "During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence."

However, Jesus was not saved from the physical death of the cross. No. God heard his prayer because Jesus reveres Him. God, in turn, saved Jesus from the death of his soul in the afterlife. Isaiah 53:9-12 says YHWH crushed Jesus and made his soul a sin offering. Jesus died, body, mind, and soul. But why would God allow this to happen?

This happened because only those who are guilty of sin deserve death according to Romans 6:23. Therefore, since Jesus never even sinned one time, yet death still received Jesus, death itself actually sinned. Now death can be destroyed. In the end, death itself will be cast into the lake of fire where it, too, will die as a result of its sin against God, according to Revelation 20:14. This legal loophole needed to be exploited to trick death into violating God's laws. Thus, it was impossible for death to hold Jesus in its clutches. Therefore, God resurrected Jesus.

So this idea about Jesus being the substitute is correct, not clearly explained very often.

What do we get out of it? In the age to come, those who are counted worthy, will be resurrected and receive the gift of eternal life, never to die again even if they wanted to, and will be children of God and a brother or sister to Jesus.

Luke 20​

35But those who are considered worthy to share in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage. 36In fact, they can no longer die, because they are like the angels. And since they are sons of the resurrection, they are sons of God.​

So yes, Jesus did indeed need to be saved from death because he isn't God. Who Jesus is is God's holy one, His Messiah, His Servant, and His Son.