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Bible Study Speaking in Tongues

Do you believe speaking in tongues is real?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes but the gift is not for today

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    10
Actually, this was not my intention to post this again. I actually don't know how this happened??? I had finished posting and logged off before you ever replied. Wierd. I appologize for the confusion.

Also, at this point I'm going to apologize to you and ask for forgiveness about assuming that you were being arrogant. I thought I had read your posts pretty clearly, but it is often very difficult to get a point across in a thread with the intended "attitude". This part seemed to clear things up for me and allow me to see your intensions:
Sputnik: While I do agree with you that my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ should not be insulted by me, it's the PRACTICE of today's 'tongues' that I have issue with. Advise me, please, as to how I can stand up so deliberately to expose an unscriptural practice without targetting the individual. I'm all ears. And again, bmeasure, exposing a fraudulent counterfeit (is it even that?) of the genuine tongues would not be grieving the Spirit. And, it would also certainly NOT be a sin or offensive to God!
I do want to make clear that I don't agree with your points but at least I want to be right with God about not being too harsh on someone assuming they were approaching a topic from an arrogant standpoint. Without being face to face, this online thing can be a bit deceiving in terms of discerning motives. I do see why you think your views are correct, and to be honest they make logical sense, but I cannot deny what God has worked in my life, and what I believe Scripture fully supports. Without knowing me you really can't know the type of person I am (which is to seriously search the Word for understanding before accepting a doctrine) and I know it's easy to assume someone is just basing their belief off of a great "pentecostal" sermon. Anyways, I know when I'm not going to reach someone and change their heart, so I'm going to bow out at this point and just say that I love you in Christ Jesus, and sincerely hope both of us grow into a more mature knowledge with our Lord and Savior. Peace.
 
Thanks, bmeasure, but you really don't need to apologize. In real life I also come across with an element of arrogance at times. It's a part of my nature that sometimes gets the better of me. I have a good friend who helps to keep me in check when I tend to get into the 'pit bull' mode. I AM improving with time but I still have my relapses every now and again. Anyway, I might take a break from this issue for awhile and see who else I can annoy on another thread :wink: God bless!
 
HI THERE

Good Morning ! (Especially bmeasure & free )

With response to a few of you that respnded to my post, I just wanted to say first of all my agrument did not and has not fallen short. To simplify without going into great detail let me put it to you this way. The "Other tongue", which was spoken in Acts chapter two was from THE HOLY SPIRIT; the EVIDENCE of THIS WAS THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT CAME UPON THEM AND THE SPEAKER(S) spoke in EVERY LANGUAGE OF THE WORLD ALL AT ONE TIME. EXAMPLE: Let's say I am in a room with five people, myself included in that group of five; I speak english, another speaks spanish, another speaks german, another speaks chinese, and the last speaks hebrew. Now, lets say the Holy Spirit comes upon the speaker, and prophecys to us; each of us will here it in OUR OWN LAGUAGE, right down to the very dialect in the town we were raised in; so therefore I'll HEAR IT in english, another will hear it in spanish, another will hear it in german, another will hear it in chinese, the other will hear it in hebrew ALL AT ONE TIME, THROUGH THAT ONE SPEAKER/INDIVIDUAL; AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE HOLY SPIRIT SPEAKS THROUGH SOMEONE; THIS IS THE EVIDENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, WHEN ONE INDIVIDUAL SPEAKS EVERY LANGUAGE OF THE WORLD ALL AT ONE TIME anything other than that is babble ! And remember that Babel, as it is utilized in the Greek means CONFUSION !

First of all in I Corinthians 13:1, the subject of the chapter is LOVE, or as it is worded in chapter 13 as "charity", meaning Love with nothing expected in return; However, in the first verse of chapter 13 Paul is talking about......., though he speaks with tongues= though he speaks with languages (plural, he speaks more than one language) and of angels, angels meaning messangers of God; that is what angel means= A messanger of God. Therefore, Paul himself is a messanger of God. So Paul then speaks and teaches just as all those messangers of God spoke, they taught the Word of God, basically they taught "This saith the LORD your God"; like Ezekial, Isaiah, etc. It is also documented that Paul spoke many laguages in I Cor. 14:18, in which he states that he speaks in laguages, plural, more than one. What Paul is saying in this first verse is that it's out of harmony if it is not done in Love=Charity; if he as a teacher teaches God's Word, and leaves Love out of the equation, he's nothing. And as it is written God is Love.

The entire chapter of I Corinthians chapter 14 is Paul teaching those that will go forward preaching the Gospel, that although they do not have the gift of speaking in languages (plural, more than one= other languages) that its more important that they have the gift of teaching God' Word, and if they don't speak in another language that THEY should have an interpreter, if they were to teach peoples of other languages, other than what the teacher is speaking in; for if they teach people the Gospel in a language that the hearers DO NOT speak, how will they be able to bring, lift, bulid them up in the knowledge & understanding of God's Word ? Even though they may desire to speak in many languages, such as Paul, Paul is telling them it is a greater gift to teach God's Word, then to speak in other languages. Basically this chapter 14 is NOT talking about the Holy Spirit speaking through someone. In other words this chapter 14 does NOT tell us that when the HOLY SPIRIT comes upon you and speaks through you, after that have someone to interpret what the HOLY SPIRT said.

Lastly, ("My closing" here is also addressed to SPUTNIKBOY , regarding your final post) I feel as though everyone must believe as they are lead to believe. If our Heavenly Father has placed a conviction on someone, I feel that unless it be the Lord's will, that conviction WILL NOT be removed. Therefore, no matter what I say, it's not going to change their conviction. I could go on til I'm blue in the face, it won't change unless God opens their (spiritual) eyes to it. So for those that think that they have witnessed people speaking in these so-called tongues, all I can say is if the blind lead the blind than unforetunately they both fall in a ditch. Unless, they heard the Holy Spirit speaking in every language of the world all at one time, they have yet to witness the Holy Spirit speak through one of God's elect. Because when we do witness that true tongue which was spoken on in Acts chapter 2, we as believers will in no wise be debating it ! For I do believe we will witness it in THIS generation, that being the generation of the fig tree, and I look forward to seeing it !


Abiyah
 
Re: HI THERE

Abiyah said:
Lastly, ("My closing" here is also addressed to SPUTNIKBOY , regarding your final post) I feel as though everyone must believe as they are lead to believe. If our Heavenly Father has placed a conviction on someone, I feel that unless it be the Lord's will, that conviction WILL NOT be removed. Therefore, no matter what I say, it's not going to change their conviction. I could go on til I'm blue in the face, it won't change unless God opens their (spiritual) eyes to it. So for those that think that they have witnessed people speaking in these so-called tongues, all I can say is if the blind lead the blind than unforetunately they both fall in a ditch. Unless, they heard the Holy Spirit speaking in every language of the world all at one time, they have yet to witness the Holy Spirit speak through one of God's elect. Because when we do witness that true tongue which was spoken on in Acts chapter 2, we as believers will in no wise be debating it ! For I do believe we will witness it in THIS generation, that being the generation of the fig tree, and I look forward to seeing it !


Abiyah[/b]

Amen brother. I do believe that is the best post I have read on this forum. This is the very thing that has been on my heart for the past week in posting to this forum. There is so much idle chatter from people who think they know everything and they will stand by their opinion to the end.

If the Holy Spirit is not speaking to a man, then my words are certainly not going to make a difference. My statement is not directed at anyone in particular; it is a simple observation I have made with the help of the Holy Spirit.

Take Care
 
Amen to both of the above posts. Thanks guys. By the way, Abiyah, I have sent you a PM ...you might check your box.
 
a different view on tongues

I believe in speaking in tongues as I was raised in a Pentecostal church. However, I do not believe in the whole church doing it at the same time, I do not believe in women doing it in church, and I do not believe in the lighthearted manner in which a lot of charismatic and Pentecostals do it. Did you ever hear a preacher, while in the middle of his sermon just start speaking in tongues? Not a message in tongues, but just because he is excited. I believe there is an order according to I Corinthians 14.
 
Re: a different view on tongues

von said:
I believe in speaking in tongues as I was raised in a Pentecostal church. However, I do not believe in the whole church doing it at the same time, I do not believe in women doing it in church, and I do not believe in the lighthearted manner in which a lot of charismatic and Pentecostals do it. Did you ever hear a preacher, while in the middle of his sermon just start speaking in tongues? Not a message in tongues, but just because he is excited. I believe there is an order according to I Corinthians 14.

Sputnik: No offense, but there is nothing in the above post to suggest anything other than that 'tongues' are questionable in ALL cases. How does one sort out the 'real' from the fake? If one is to err on the side of caution, then we have to assume that they're ALL fake!
 
Re: a different view on tongues

SputnikBoy said:
von said:
I believe in speaking in tongues as I was raised in a Pentecostal church. However, I do not believe in the whole church doing it at the same time, I do not believe in women doing it in church, and I do not believe in the lighthearted manner in which a lot of charismatic and Pentecostals do it. Did you ever hear a preacher, while in the middle of his sermon just start speaking in tongues? Not a message in tongues, but just because he is excited. I believe there is an order according to I Corinthians 14.

Sputnik: No offense, but there is nothing in the above post to suggest anything other than that 'tongues' are questionable in ALL cases. How does one sort out the 'real' from the fake? If one is to err on the side of caution, then we have to assume that they're ALL fake!

If you aren't a skeptic then why let it concern you. If you are, nothing will convince you. If you are a Pentecostal all such manifestions are the Holy Spirit's business and not mine --or yours. I've personally witnessed the good, bad and the ugly. All were prophecied to be as Jesus and Paul spoke of. So why not embrace it that it will edify you that you become a witness for the Lord in what He can do when application is properly made in you? Or will you just say, no thanks?
 
Orm- I don't follow what you'are saying. I do believe in speaking in tongues. I don't understand what you mean. Explain a little better.
To Sputnik: Sorry, it is our business and you can know whether they are of God. The Bible says to try the Spirits, whether they be of God. I believe in all of the gifts of the Spirit, I just am not sure about the lightheartedness that the Pentecostal churches put upon it. I take it very seriously and I am not trying to condemn or down grade anyone elses beliefs on the subject. I have seen so much over the years and just thought I'd post my views.
 
It's all relatively simple. There is a scriptural criteria involved. If one is NOT:
1. speaking in a KNOWN language
2. preaching the good news of Jesus
3. directing the message to a specific person/s who understands the language and will be edified by it
. . .then it's fake.
 
Re: a different view on tongues

Ormly said:
SputnikBoy said:
von said:
I believe in speaking in tongues as I was raised in a Pentecostal church. However, I do not believe in the whole church doing it at the same time, I do not believe in women doing it in church, and I do not believe in the lighthearted manner in which a lot of charismatic and Pentecostals do it. Did you ever hear a preacher, while in the middle of his sermon just start speaking in tongues? Not a message in tongues, but just because he is excited. I believe there is an order according to I Corinthians 14.

Sputnik: No offense, but there is nothing in the above post to suggest anything other than that 'tongues' are questionable in ALL cases. How does one sort out the 'real' from the fake? If one is to err on the side of caution, then we have to assume that they're ALL fake!

Ormly: If you aren't a skeptic then why let it concern you. If you are, nothing will convince you.

Sputnik: I'm not a skeptic. Being a skeptic, by definition, implies that there COULD be some truth in Pentecostal 'tongues' but that I'm just a tad 'iffy' about it. No, I'm not a skeptic. I never 'doubt' what I've previously heard in charismatic churches. I just plain DON'T BELIEVE IT. I WILL only be convinced in regard to 'authentic tongues' as long as the criteria of my above post (and the scriptures) are adhered to.

Ormly: If you are a Pentecostal all such manifestions are the Holy Spirit's business and not mine --or yours.

Sputnik: Ah, but Pentecostal 'tongues' have NOTHING to do with the Holy Spirit.

Ormly: I've personally witnessed the good, bad and the ugly. All were prophecied to be as Jesus and Paul spoke of. So why not embrace it that it will edify you that you become a witness for the Lord in what He can do when application is properly made in you? Or will you just say, no thanks?

Sputnik: Tongues (KNOWN LANGUAGES) were NEVER intended to 'edify the self'. And please, before that worn out text by Paul is used yet again to imply 'self-edification', I strongly suggest that the text be properly defined before being merely presented to support something that is truly bogus.
 
Re: a different view on tongues

SputnikBoy said:
Ormly said:
SputnikBoy said:
von said:
I believe in speaking in tongues as I was raised in a Pentecostal church. However, I do not believe in the whole church doing it at the same time, I do not believe in women doing it in church, and I do not believe in the lighthearted manner in which a lot of charismatic and Pentecostals do it. Did you ever hear a preacher, while in the middle of his sermon just start speaking in tongues? Not a message in tongues, but just because he is excited. I believe there is an order according to I Corinthians 14.

Sputnik: No offense, but there is nothing in the above post to suggest anything other than that 'tongues' are questionable in ALL cases. How does one sort out the 'real' from the fake? If one is to err on the side of caution, then we have to assume that they're ALL fake!

Ormly: If you aren't a skeptic then why let it concern you. If you are, nothing will convince you.

Sputnik: I'm not a skeptic. Being a skeptic, by definition, implies that there COULD be some truth in Pentecostal 'tongues' but that I'm just a tad 'iffy' about it. No, I'm not a skeptic. I never 'doubt' what I've previously heard in charismatic churches. I just plain DON'T BELIEVE IT. I WILL only be convinced in regard to 'authentic tongues' as long as the criteria of my above post (and the scriptures) are adhered to.

Ormly: If you are a Pentecostal all such manifestions are the Holy Spirit's business and not mine --or yours.

Sputnik: Ah, but Pentecostal 'tongues' have NOTHING to do with the Holy Spirit.

Ormly: I've personally witnessed the good, bad and the ugly. All were prophecied to be as Jesus and Paul spoke of. So why not embrace it that it will edify you that you become a witness for the Lord in what He can do when application is properly made in you? Or will you just say, no thanks?

Sputnik: Tongues (KNOWN LANGUAGES) were NEVER intended to 'edify the self'. And please, before that worn out text by Paul is used yet again to imply 'self-edification', I strongly suggest that the text be properly defined before being merely presented to support something that is truly bogus.


SO don't believe it. Leave it alone. That's your choice. However, I strongly caution you: DON"T SPEAK AGAINST IT.

It is evident, being a Pentecostal myself, that your understanding is quite limited.
Being a Penetecostal doesn't mean one has arrived when speaking of one's dispositon or other matters concerning the perfecting of the saint/being conformed to His image. Pentecostal-ism is for the new born in Christ that he/she be equipped by the Holy Ghost for his or her own journey in perfection in Christ unto the becoming a son of God.. That is what Paul speaks of it as "self-edifying"/built up in one's faith, the faith OF Christ per Gal.2.20. Don't believe, ignore or twist that anyway you like but it doesn't change the clear meaning of what he is attempting to get across to you.
Your understanding that they were "known languages" doesn't come from scripture but those unbelievers you've attached yourself to, to be instructed by them. That's also plain to see. Speaking and hearing can be two totally different experiences. I personally know of one such German individual who understood a message, directed at him, from a speaker of tongues speaking an American indian dialect. Another account I know of personally is two deaf and dumb fellows in wheel chairs who were baptised with the Holy Ghost, spoke in tongues and when it was finished went back to sign language. What language did they speak, Sput? Who cared that anyone understood what they said? No, I say to you, be careful.

If you are truly sincere you will begin to seek better answers to your questions from unbelief.
Two very simple accounts would be to understand the events at the house of Cornielus and the account in Acts 19 with the disciples. Ask yourself the question: "How come I believe they had to be known languages when they all spoke the same language, why the need for Pentecost at all in this -- how come all this happened this way?" I'm not going to give you answers. You think about it real good. I'll answer the one's that don't that don't go circular.

Orm

Did you read the article I posted awhile back concerning Christ being the Baptiser?
 
I think that is the bottom line. I may not agree with the way it is done in the church but I do believe in it and yes, one who doesn't believe in it should take caution in speaking against it. Very well put.
 
Your understanding that they were "known languages" doesn't come from scripture but those unbelievers you've attached yourself to, to be instructed by them.

This is a very bold statement to say. The interpretation of 'known languages' comes from the bible too, it's just that you can't see it because of who YOU'VE attached yourself to. I suggest, rather than dismissing the claim - search for yourself. It won't cost you anything. And you can keep right on believing what you've been taught after your search.
 
von said:
I think that is the bottom line. I may not agree with the way it is done in the church but I do believe in it and yes, one who doesn't believe in it should take caution in speaking against it. Very well put.

Sputnik: Sad to say, it was NOT very well put. And, since I sincerely believe that Pentecostal 'tongues' are NOT from the Holy Spirit, I have absolutely no qualms in speaking against it.

Okay von, or Orm ...let us just say that I venture into your church and hear several people 'speaking in tongues'. Since you, von, have already acknowledged that 'fakery' goes on in Pentecostal churches, how do I know which is the 'genuine' and which is the fake? I mean, what IS the criteria that either of you guys use to determine the 'real' from the bogus? Do I leave your church at the end of the service and simply assume (a - they were ALL 'genuine', (b - they were ALL fake, or, (c - I feel that SOME were 'genuine' but OTHERS were fake? How would I know? Can't you see the dilemma here?
 
SputnikBoy said:
von said:
I think that is the bottom line. I may not agree with the way it is done in the church but I do believe in it and yes, one who doesn't believe in it should take caution in speaking against it. Very well put.

Sputnik: Sad to say, it was NOT very well put. And, since I sincerely believe that Pentecostal 'tongues' are NOT from the Holy Spirit, I have absolutely no qualms in speaking against it.

Okay von, or Orm ...let us just say that I venture into your church and hear several people 'speaking in tongues'. Since you, von, have already acknowledged that 'fakery' goes on in Pentecostal churches, how do I know which is the 'genuine' and which is the fake? I mean, what IS the criteria that either of you guys use to determine the 'real' from the bogus? Do I leave your church at the end of the service and simply assume (a - they were ALL 'genuine', (b - they were ALL fake, or, (c - I feel that SOME were 'genuine' but OTHERS were fake? How would I know? Can't you see the dilemma here?
 
Sputnik- No, No, No. You are mistaken. I never said that some of the peoples tongues are fake. What I said was, you know what is of god and what is not, but if you don't even believe then you wouldn't understand.
What I don't care for is the fact that there is no order at times. The peoples hearts are sincere but they have never been taught that there is an order.
You don't believe, but what are you saying that people who have experienced it are faking? What? Do you think that Pentecostals are a bunch of weirdos who like standing up making idiots out of themselves by babbling a bunch of noises that no one understands? I'm going to pray that the Holy Spirit hits you and you wake up in the middle of the night speaking in tongues. It can happen, ya know?
 
von said:
Sputnik- Do you think that Pentecostals are a bunch of weirdos who like standing up making idiots out of themselves by babbling a bunch of noises that no one understands?

Sputnik: Um ...can I plead the 5th? :smt100
 
You don't believe, but what are you saying that people who have experienced it are faking?

Actually some do fake (not all) and there are such things called 'counterfeit tongues' or tongues of the Devil.
 
Once again, the scriptural criteria for speaking a language under the influence of the Holy Spirit is:

1. It must be a known language
2. It must convey the good news of Jesus Christ, and
3. It must be directed at someone who will benefit from the message.

Everything else is unscriptural and must be therefore dismissed.
 
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