Bible Study Speaking in Tongues

[SputnikBoy]

So, my question would be, how are we to deal with this 'Pentecostal' phenomena? I mean, is it seriously wrong enough to be condemned by other Christians who see it as a mockery of the scriptures? Do we make allowances for those who might well be sincere 'tongue-speakers' but simply wrong? Do we simply pass it off with a roll of the eyes and a 'ho-hum' and focus instead on our Christian commonalities?

While I don't understand why anyone would take on this Pentecostal practice to begin with, I have to concede that many of those who are caught up in 'tongues' REALLY DO believe that they are the 'genuine article', especially those who claim to privately 'pray in tongues'. These ones, in particular, should perhaps re-evaluate this whole issue.

Q. What were/are tongues?
A. They were/are simply languages spoken by nationals of a particular country. The national tongue of the U.S./Australia/Great Britain is English.

Q. Why were tongues (languages) given to some initially?
A. They were given to enable those who were capable of doing so to witness the gospel of Jesus Christ to 'all nations'. Jesus gave instructions for the disciples to remain in Jerusalem to await 'the helper' that would be sent for this purpose (Luke 24:49).

Q. What are the tongues that Paul is referring to in 1 Corinthians?
A. They are nothing other than the same tongues (or languages) that were established as such in the Book of Acts. There is no reason to believe - none whatever - that they are anything other than 'glossa' or 'known languages'.

Q. What are 'the tongues of angels'?
A. We have no reference in the scriptures that angels spoke in any other language than that spoken to the individual/s they visited and conversed with. We are not told directly that angels even have a specific language of their own.

Q. Why did Paul make reference to 'the tongues of men and of angels'?
A. He was simply using exaggerated language or 'hyperbole' to make his point that LOVE is more important than anything else. LOVE, not 'tongue-speaking', is the gist of this entire chapter. We. today, use similar hyperbole in gest or frustration ..."You're making me BLUE in the face. If I've told you once, I've told you a MILLION times that 'tongues' are ... ..."

Q. What are 'Pentecost tongues'?
A. They are merely 'gibberish' - utterances without meaning - that even God would not understand. Even God requires SOME substance to speech.

Q. Why and how would anyone practice 'gibberish' in the first place?
A. Initially, a misrepresentation of the scriptures. After that, expectations of peers and peer pressure, not wanting to feel inferior to others or be seen by them as being 'a lesser Christian', demands that are placed upon someone, a sign that one is 'Spirit-filled', a possible 'requirement for salvation', euphoria commonly achieved through repetitious music and a build-up of excitement levels, learned behavior eventuating in a practice that can be called on at will, the importance of acceptance within the group, a yearning to 'belong', a belief that the practice is genuine, etc.

Q. Is there a chance that today's Pentecostal 'tongues' could be genuine in some cases?
A. Not as long as the practice is contrary to the scriptures. And, with so much bogus activity going on within the same environment, how could anyone differentiate between the real and the false? As long as it can be faked, it probably IS fake. Keeping a healthy scepticism is about the best one can do.

Q. Are Pentecostal 'tongues', or 'gibberish' of any kind that is publicly passed off as 'being of the Holy Spirit', really of Satan?
A. Some would say yes. Others might be reluctant to do so, however, as one cannot effectively condemn a perceived satanic practice without painting the practicing individual with the same brush. This is a tough one.

Q. What is the answer ...how do Christians deal with such major issues?
A. How would Jesus deal with this issue, do you think?

 

[SputnikBoy]

I do believe in speaking in tougues, because i believe that it falls under the same catagory as all the gifts Jesus intended His CHurch to have, healing, prophecy, teaching etc.. and of course there are MANY exceptions to see how tongues can be false. But if Jesus say we can in this generation (which is all those after HIm) can do greater things in Him, i believe tongues are one of the great things we can do today.
So it really up to us individuals to believe regardless the false people out there, cause they are out there, but keep in mind they are the true christians who do speak tongues in truth and in spirit.
So let's celebrate these gifts together :

Sputnik: Nice, chic, but a little 'airy fairy'. Being a Christian and a Bible-believer doesn't mean that we have to fall for every bit of nonsense that one may call 'of the Holy Spirit'. Jesus took away our sins, not our brains. Pentecostal 'tongues' are simply UNSCRIPTURAL and that really is that. We need to address and challenge the actual issue here in a scholarly manner in order to make sense out of it. Do you, based on your above post, believe that the sounds you hear when you visit a Pentecostal church are of the Holy Spirit? What criteria do you use to determine the real from the fake?

What EXACTLY are we discussing here ...scriptural tongues or today's Pentecostal 'tongues'? They are NOT the same!

 

[SputnikBoy]

I keep getting personal references to personal experiences with tongues. All I wanna know is do you believe speaking int ongues is 1) Speaking to someone in their native tongue yet you don't know it. and another "tongue" which is 2) your Spirit Man talking to God. (After all it is in the Bible)

So many people believe it is false or not for today just because of experiences they had. Come on people, if you ahd an experience where "God" killed people, owuld you stop believeing in God? No because you know it wasn't God!

Sputnik: Hi Julian. Who exactly IS this 'Spirit Man' you keep referring to in your posts? Could you provide the scriptures?

 

[Julian Pyke]

It's God's Spirit.

If you are saved you are filled with his Spirit. The Holy Ghost.

Anyway, I have to go, I will be back in a month, working at a camp. Nice to talk all you guys. Bye!

 

[cj]

cj, you speak in tongues? As in 1) to other people in their native tongue or 2) your spirit man speaking to God?

Well, I certainly do speak to other people in my native tongue everyday, and yes, seeing that I live in a country where most speak English, I am understood when I speak.

As far as speaking in my "spirit-man"....... lets look at scripture for the light and leading.....

1 Corinthians 14:14, "For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful."

1 Corinthians  14 : 15, "What then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray also with the mind; I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing also with the mind."

1 Corinthians 14:19, "But in the church I would rather speak five words with my mind, that I might instruct others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Jude  1 : 20, "But you, beloved, building up yourselves upon your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,"


What the scripture tells us is that speaking in tongues is a manifestation of God as the Spirit in our regenerated spirit.

Paul clearly tells us that there is a certain need that is being met when a tongue is spoken and interpreted in a gathering of the Church, and this need is the saving of an unsaved person. A tongue is spoken and interpreted in a gathering of believers as a sign to unbelievers.

This does not mean that a believer cannot be edified by this speaking and interpretation, but this is not the first reason. The first reason, priority intention of God is the gaining of the unsaved person in the midst of the believers.

But the we have the matter of prayng with our spirit, which is what I take that you refer to as "your spirit man speaking to God".

As a saved believing person, to pray with our spirit is the same thing as to pray in the Holy Spirit, as our regenerated spirit and God are just one.

Everything that comes out of our regenerated spirit is of God, and for God, which is to say, of the Holy Spirit and for the Holy Spirit.

So when you say "your spirit man speaking to God", for me this means, that my entire being (man is tripartite, body, soul, and spirit) is open to God and thus becomes simply a vessel into which He can pour Himself, and through which He can pour out Himself.

Speaking to God is in reality God in us speaking to Himself for our edification and joy.


In love,
cj

 

[Free]

I think I'll take Act 2 for what it says. Peter spoke and many men from many different mother tongues all heard and understood in their own tongue.

Okay, then let's look at what it actually says:

Act 2:3 And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6 And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7 And they were amazed and astonished, saying, "Are not all these who are speaking Galileans?
Act 2:8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language?

Act 2:14 But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words.
Act 2:15 For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.

It is clear that each one was not hearing Peter but all the disciples, about 120 of them (Acts 1:15).

 

[Abiyah]

Sputnik ?

Sputnik: Pentecostal 'tongues' are simply UNSCRIPTURAL and that really is that. Do you, based on your above post, believe that the sounds you hear when you visit a Pentecostal church are of the Holy Spirit? What criteria do you use to determine the real from the fake?

What EXACTLY are we discussing here ...scriptural tongues or today's Pentecostal 'tongues'? They are NOT the same!

** Sputnik ? I thought your Q & A would clear up any misinterpretations of the Scriptures that some may have with regards to the so the "so-called" speaking in tongues. Well I understood your Q & A. However, many believe that the babble, gibberish, confusion,etc. that they hear and possibly do themselves is truly the Holy Spirit speaking through them, this is what they believe from what they have been taught by the traditions of men. And I think that you know what Jesus has to say about the traditions of men.

Mark 7:13
" MAKING THE WORD OF GOD OF NONE EFFECT THROUGH YOUR TRADITION, Which ye have delivered; AND MANY SUCH THINGS DO YE."


God's word clearly declares that the traditions of men make void the Word of God. It seems as though, when one try's to bring another out of confusion with regards to this topic that it falls on deaf ears. Christ instructed many many times that " he that hath an ear let him hear".... Meaning He was instructing those that have spiritual ears to hear, let them hear with understanding. However, God has put the spirit of slumber upon many, that they will not understand, so you can try and explain to them until your blue in the face and they will still not "spiritually" be able to hear you, or anyone else that trys to edify them with the Word of God.

Romans 11:8
" (according as it is written, GOD HATH GIVEN THEM THE SPIRIT OF SLUMBER, EYES THAT THEY SHOULD NOT SEE, AND EARS THAT THEY SHOULD NOT HEAR;) UNTO THIS DAY. "


II Thessalonians 2:11
" And for this cause GOD SHALL SEND THEM STRONG DELUSION, THAT THEY SHOULD BELIEVE A LIE. "


I have studied the Word of God, one because I Love our Father very much, but also to help those that lack understanding and to help those that have been deceived by the traditions of men, and try to bring them out of confusion, but many times I find myself wondering why they can not hear my speach, but in all actuality I already know the answer.

Abiyah

 

[Free]

Instead of picking through posts, I'll just throw this out there. The claim keeps getting repeated that "Pentecostal style" tongues are unscriptural, yet, no biblical support to the contrary has been provided thus far. I suggest some be provided, or we all just move along.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Instead of picking through posts, I'll just throw this out there. The claim keeps getting repeated that "Pentecostal style" tongues are unscriptural, yet, no biblical support to the contrary has been provided thus far. I suggest some be provided, or we all just move along.

Sputnik: Of course the Bible doesn't contain a text that says, in effect, "Pentecostal-style 'tongues' are unscriptural ..." What the Bible DOES contain, however, is what tongues ACTUALLY were, to WHOM they were given, and the PURPOSE for which they were given. That's really all we need to present and I think we have. You're probably right about our moving along though.

 

[Free]

What the Bible DOES contain, however, is what tongues ACTUALLY were

What you mean is: what some of you think tongues were and that means, not "Pentecostal style". But this is still up for debate as there has been no substantial support given for believing this to be the case.

to WHOM they were given

And to whom were they given? What do you mean by this?

and the PURPOSE for which they were given

And what is the purpose for which they were given?

 

[Abiyah]

Instead of picking through posts, I'll just throw this out there. The claim keeps getting repeated that "Pentecostal style" tongues are unscriptural, yet, no biblical support to the contrary has been provided thus far. I suggest some be provided, or we all just move along.

Yes.. Please show me Scripture that supports speaking in unknown languages; for I have witnessed it for myself when I was a guest at a friends church, where some of them were speaking in these so-called "tongues" and honestly this is what it sounded like..... bumm-shahh-lah--Ohhh-E-eye-oh-sshah-ha-yee-I, and so on and so forth; while there bodies twitched, and some of them having convulsions !!! WHAT IS THAT, IS THAT OF GOD ? Is that really of God ? Hmmmm ? SHOW ME IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS THAT... God is the author of confusion ? It doesn't ! However, all this was very confusing, if not sorta scary to me. And I think it's very dangerous to teach anything BUT God's WORD ! And I have stated NUMEROUS times that the word is not tongue, it is language, why would I lie ? I think many here are trying to help those that have been clearly lead astray when it comes to speaking in these so so-called "tongues", and I think it's really sad. Many have quoted directly from God's Word, including myself, and have taken the word tongue back to it's originally meaning. I don't get it ? I think it would be wise for many to go out and get a Hebrew and Greek Dictionary... a Strongs Concordance. It helps! Then instead of taking my word for it, they could look it up themselves. In the original King James Bible 1611, the TRANSLATORS of the King James Bible wrote a letter saying they did there best in translating from the Hebrew/Greek into English, but there were probably some mistakes. Did you know that? Have you looked at a King James 1611.... ? It is impotrtant at times to take many words in the Bible back to their original meanings to receive that which our Father is trying to bring forth to our hearts, which is to say our minds. I am NOT trying to be rude here, but we correct those that we Love, right ? I'm only trying to help.


P.S. The tongue, (which means dialect, a language) spoken in Acts chapter 2 was of God ! And I believe we will see this again in our generation; however, I have NEVER witnessed it in any church to this present day. I've yet to witnessed anyone speaking in EVERY LANGUAGE OF THE WORLD ALL AT ONE TIME, where standing right next to one another, each person could hear it in their own language, right down to the town in which they were born.

Abiyah

 

[Merry Menagerie]

And to whom were they given? What do you mean by this?

The early church

And what is the purpose for which they were given?

To preach the gospel and to show that the new covenant had indeed come. Was a sign to the unbelievers at the time.

 

[Free]

And I have stated NUMEROUS times that the word is not tongue, it is language, why would I lie? I think many here are trying to help those that have been clearly lead astray when it comes to speaking in these so so-called "tongues", and I think it's really sad. Many have quoted directly from God's Word, including myself, and have taken the word tongue back to it's originally meaning. I don't get it ?

Whether glossa is translated as "tongue" or "language" is irrelevant.

Yes.. Please show me Scripture that supports speaking in unknown languages

1 Corinthians 14.

In the original King James Bible 1611, the TRANSLATORS of the King James Bible wrote a letter saying they did there best in translating from the Hebrew/Greek into English, but there were probably some mistakes. Did you know that? Have you looked at a King James 1611.... ? It is impotrtant at times to take many words in the Bible back to their original meanings to receive that which our Father is trying to bring forth to our hearts, which is to say our minds.

I didn't know that the translators wrote a letter stating such, but I know the KVJ does have mistakes.

I have NEVER witnessed it in any church to this present day.

And how many of the worlds churches have you been in in the last 100 years? The point is, it is fallacious to assume that tongues, like those in Acts, don't happen today just because you haven't witnessed it.

And to whom were they given? What do you mean by this?

The early church

Do you mean only the early church and that they stopped after a given time, or just that they were given at an early period in the history of the church?

And what is the purpose for which they were given?

To preach the gospel and to show that the new covenant had indeed come. Was a sign to the unbelievers at the time.

Was that the only purpose for the gift of tongues?

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Do you mean only the early church and that they stopped after a given time, or just that they were given at an early period in the history of the church?

They were given to the early church for that purpose at the time. They are also given now for the same purpose.

Was that the only purpose for the gift of tongues?

At that time - yes. Until Paul addressed the church and told them that tongues are also given as a gift for the edification of the church. So today they are...

A sign for the unbeliever (among many signs)
A means in which one can preach to those of another language
A gift used for the edification of the church

 

[Free]

Okay Merry, I give in. ;) I have really been reading your posts wrong or something.

I would also add to your list that tongues are also for the edification of self.

Do you believe that "Pentecostal style" tongues are today's tongues?

 

[christianchic2]

yes maybe my view was 'airy fairy' but my point is that although there are many examples of false tongues, it is still soemthing real and used by God today. I believe many in this post have already examined the scriptures that proves that tonuges exisit esp what Paul says about it.
Also again i am equalizing it with all the gifts Jesus had given His Church, just like all of them we need to seek God's power and use them to add and edify His Church. It's maybe when we have this power we can fully understand it's purpose and the goodness of it.
Why is it so hard to believe that the God of the impossible actually does these things??

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Okay Merry, I give in. I have really been reading your posts wrong or something.

Really? I don't believe that tongues are necessary for salvation - do you?

I would also add to your list that tongues are also for the edification of self.

Well the jury is still out with that one for me. Here's why...because I think that people in the church were speaking in tongues adn they were only edifying themselves because no on understood them. Paul corrected them and told them that the purpose of the gifts was to edify the body. So I'm not sure that tongues is for self edification.

Do you believe that "Pentecostal style" tongues are today's tongues?

Yes I believe they are the same tongues.

 

[cj]

Well the jury is still out with that one for me. Here's why...because I think that people in the church were speaking in tongues adn they were only edifying themselves because no on understood them. Paul corrected them and told them that the purpose of the gifts was to edify the body. So I'm not sure that tongues is for self edification.

MM,

Have you ever read a chapter of scripture and only taken in certain things, yet, some time latter have come into the light of other things that were in that chapter? Things that really did not mean much to you when you first read it?

I know you have, because we all have. In a way this is along the lines of the type of edification we receive when we pray in tongues for our own building up.

Many times, while praying in tongues a person will have a sense of what is being prayed for. Even more, if the heart is pure, there is a definite sense of inward release from a burden.

We don't know all that God speaks regarding our lives and being. Many things that God speaks and that impact our lives goes unknown; but we can still receive all His speaking through believing. And this is what God desires most of all, men who believe. And this is what speaking in tongues is an excercise of, our believing faith.

Unfortunately, in the typical way of men, this very simple matter has been corrupted and degraded into a type of doctrine by men. And because of this, the focus has become one of man's manipulation rather than according to the flow of life. And this kills it.

Much of the so-called tongue speaking that is practiced in Christianity today is nothing more than foolishness; an expression of vanity.

But don't be robbed by this. For allowing yourself to be robbed is itself foolish.

In love,
cj

 

[Abiyah]

Hi there All... FREE ?

"Free"

Whether glossa is translated as "tongue" or "language" is irrelevant.

Hi there !

In every occurrence of "unknown tongue," in the New Testament, the word (especially in I Cor. chapter 14) "unknown" is an added word (italicized in the KJV) by the translators to make the English readable.

Basically to try and simplify without over simplification; The Scriptures did not ORIGINALLY state to speak in an UNKNOWN tongue, but that they would speak in OTHER tongues (i.e., other languages) as it is written in Acts chapter 2. This was a gift for communicating the Gospel to peoples of other languages and has absolutely nothing to do with the so -called speaking in tongues that are being carried out in the many churches of today.

In the King James Bible you see some words in italics. These are words that the translators had to add to properly translate the Hebrew/Greek into English. And at times, they did not always add the right words. But they were faithful in that they placed the words that they added in italics so that we would know that the words do not appear in the original Scriptures as such.

In the Acts Scripture, the words are "other tongues" not UNKNOWN tongues. Below is the "tongues" of the book of Acts, and as you can see there was nothing "unknown" about it!

Acts 2:4
" And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost [Ghost=meaning Spirit, as it was from the Greek], and began to speak with OTHER TONGUES, as the Spirit gave them utterance. " (KJV)

Below I have listed the original words in which they were translated from in the scriptures they took from the Greek.

other: Greek word #2087 heteros = other or different:

Tongues: Greek word #1100 glossa = a language (specially, one naturally unacquired)

When they spoke these tongues or languages, everybody understood it, the Scripture lists 18 different languages that understood it AT ONCE! Not like today's so-called tongues where only another person can think that he understands it. The Pentecostal Day (Acts ch. 2) tongues were heard and understood by all languages:

So the Scriptures in I Corithians chapter 14, is simply talking about those that teach God's Word in other languages, other than those which the hearer knows and understands. And "IF" they were to teach to a congregation of a other language, that THEY SHOULD BRING AN INTERPRETER.

In my view what is happening in the churches today in which they pull from I Corinthians chapter 14, is so far removed from the Scriptures that one could only suspect other influences, that are not of the Holy Spirit. I find it to be more on the lines of babbling.

I Corithians 14:33
" For God is NOT the author of confusion [ babble ], but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. "

Abiyah

 

[Merry Menagerie]

cj - I understand all that. I used to believe that too, however, I now cannot see it supported in scripture anymore so the jury is still out. Although, I'm sure that if one was to speak in tongues for ones own edification I don't think God's going to really care too much...but I'm just having a hard time seeing it supported in scripture.