Tackling the Hard Questions

[donadams]

Matt 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

Ok where does it say they had sex? Lk 1:34 forbids it
Marrige is made by consent not sex
They consented to be married
Thanks

So you haven't read Matt 1:24.

 

[Who Me]

Matt 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

Ok where does it say they had sex? Lk 1:34 forbids it
Marrige is made by consent not sex
They consented to be married
Thanks

Sorry typed too quickly see verse 25.But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

 

[donadams]

Sorry typed too quickly see verse 25.But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

Matthew 1:25

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

That is what he did not do, not what he did do!​

 

[Who Me]

​

Matthew 1:25​

​

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.​

​

That is what he did not do, not what he did do!​

He refrained from sex until Jesus was born.
If he refrained for a known period it is implicit that he had sex after Jesus's birth.
If he never had sex with Mary the bible would not have said he refrained until the birth.

 

[donadams]

He refrained from sex until Jesus was born.
If he refrained for a known period it is implicit that he had sex after Jesus's birth.
If he never had sex with Mary the bible would not have said he refrained until the birth.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

Lk 1:34 no sex ever!

 

[Free]

Catholic doctrine is not to be promoted outside of the Catholic forum. I shouldn't have to continue to post this warning.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

2. God the Father sent His Son as the only one worthy to pay the price, through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, for our sins. That is how much God showed His love for us.

Hello Josef.
God is pleased that his Son loved people who despised him. God was appeased that his Son showed all mankind our Fathers' love, mercy, patience...all the fruit of his Spirit, instead of bringing the law as a witness against men who sinned against him.

How in the world did the asnine doctrine that Jesus was being punished in place of sinners ger started? The Truth is, our dear sweet Savior was being punished by sinners who hated God. They hated Jesus.

If the Messiah had brought the law against those sinners, they would have been put to death,

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Col.2:14

 

[Who Me]

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

Lk 1:34 no sex ever!

One doctrine and theo.ogy has to be biblically based and reasonable. Insisting that one verse illogical trumps other verse you are being irrational.

Now please explain how my early reasoning is incorrect.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
"How in the world did the asnine doctrine that Jesus was being punished in place of sinners ger started?" Quote from journeyman:

Hi journeyman. Good question. Let's see if I can give you an answer.
I am pretty sure it was started in Genesis 3:15

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Enmity is defined as a deep-rooted hatred. The bruising represents the physical scars after the resurrection. (Remember Thomas wanted to see the nail prints in Christ's hands?)
Then the apostle John wrote this:

1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Again defining our terms, advocate means one who pleads another's case, who helps by defending a person.
For propitiation, the Greek word (hilasmos) is used. Christ is "the hilasmos," by becoming our substitute. He assumed our obligation. He consented to die in our place. He bore our guilt, and covered it, by all that he endured.

"The Truth is, our dear sweet Savior was being punished by sinners who hated God. They hated Jesus." Quote from journeyman:

We are in agreement here. I was one those sinners. Jesus bore my sins on that cross also. He was punished for me as well. I am thankful everyday for His substutuonary act. That kind act allows me to be a sinner saved by grace through faith in Jesus. It's humbling. Keep walking everybody. May God
bless,
Taz

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Hi journeyman. Good question. Let's see if I can give you an answer.

I want you to know from the beginning of our conversation that I appreciate your taking the time to respond.

I don't appreciate the fact that you didn't comment on the scipture I posted.

Throughtout this conversation, any scripture you cite will agee 100% with the scripture I cite. It somply won't fit your interpretation.

Again, I appreciate you taking the time. I don't mean anything in a rude Spirit. It's just that I was taught by Protestants for many years and by your understanding beliw, you were also.

I am pretty sure it was started in Genesis 3:15

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Enmity is defined as a deep-rooted hatred. The bruising represents the physical scars after the resurrection. (Remember Thomas wanted to see the nail prints in Christ's hands?)

Yes, but the hatred was against God...the Son. The Son hated being spit on. God hated it when sinners tried to throw him off a cliff. It's sin to murder an innocent man.
Thomas and the rest were told,

Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you....all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
Jn.15:20-21

Being unjustly put to death doesn't fulfill the law. It violates it. The "enmity" In Gen.1 is between the woman and the devil, not the law. The law can be against us, but not when we sincerly repent,

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there isno law. Gal.5:22-23

There is no law which can condemn, if the fruit of Christs' Spirit rules your heart. Please listen to what he's saying.

Then the apostle John wrote this:

1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Again defining our terms, advocate means one who pleads another's case, who helps by defending a person.
For propitiation, the Greek word (hilasmos) is used. Christ is "the hilasmos," by becoming our substitute. He assumed our obligation. He consented to die in our place.

No. "hilastḗrion" refers to the mercy seat where sins were expiated. The mercy seat was in the holiest place in the temple because Gods' very presence was there. It was separated from view by a veil. Heb.10:20 says that veil is symbolic of Jesus' flesh.

Roman flagrums tore that curtain, but they could't see the One behind it,

do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? Rom.2:4

count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you 2Pet.3:15

Repentance for having have wrong Christ, God, is where sins are forgiven.

He bore our guilt, and covered it, by all that he endured.

In the sense that people are sorry for the guilt of having sinned against him, yes. Otherwise no,

Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee. Deu.19:13

except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish Lk.13:3

We are in agreement here. I was one those sinners. Jesus bore my sins on that cross also. He was punished for me as well. I am thankful everyday for His substutuonary act. That kind act allows me to be a sinner saved by grace through faith in Jesus. It's humbling. Keep walking everybody. May God
bless,
Taz

Dear Christian, mercy is when you pick a fight with someone much stronger than you, and leave with your teeth still intact.

Nothing I've posted here disagrees with anything you've cited, but your interpretation of those passages doesn't agree with what I cited. Please try to read them like you're reading them for the first time, without any theological doctrine.

 

[Free]

How in the world did the asnine doctrine that Jesus was being punished in place of sinners ger started?

Because it’s what the OT sacrificial system points to and is clearly taught in both the OT and NT; it’s at the centre of everything.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Because it’s what the OT sacrificial system points to and is clearly taught in both the OT and NT; it’s at the centre of everything.

Free,
I understand why you think that way. I did too, but our heavenly Father never looked at his Son as a sinner. Mankind did. When Paul says,

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Gal.3:13

He means,

if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance Deu.21:22-23

Paul isn't saying everyone who's crucified is accursed. He's saying Jesus was slandered.

For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you.....he was betrayed 1Cor.11:23

The religious leaders said he was a blasphemer. He was falsely accused,

against the LORD, and against his anointed Psa.2:2

Peter quotes that passage because the apostles were being threatened, as our Lord was. Also,

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Act.2:23

The determinate counsil of God is that good and evil are opposed to one another

what communion hath light with darkness? 2Cor.6:14

The foreknowledge of God is that he promised Israel and the gentile world that the Messiah would teach us all not to be afraid. People fear death most, themselves or loved ones. He beat death.

Peter told them to repent.

If you actually look at the scriptures fresh, like you're seeing them for the first time, you'll see it. If you don't want to do that, please comment on the actual scripture I posted.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
We are having a discussion. I will choose how to answer questions. You have your point of view, and I have mine. We share with each other and this broadens our understanding. My paradigm does have to agree with yours; nor yours mine.

I checked three sources, including a secular source, Wikipedia. Hilasmos is the correct greek word used as propitiation in 1 John 2:2. So I stand by what I wrote. It means what I wrote.

In your first post directed at me, there was only one Scripture reference. I didn't have a problem with it as it is continuation of verse 13; hence the semicolon.

Colossians 2:13-14 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

I do not see a disagreement. Jesus forgave all my sins. I view "blotting out the handwriting of ordinances" as symbolic language of our debts being nailed to the cross. A similar statement is in 1Peter 2:24.

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.


"Roman flagrums tore that curtain, but they could't see the One behind it," Quote from Journeyman

This is speculation on your part. We are not told who tore the veil. But the fact that the debt had been paid, and the fact that it was no longer needed, leads me to believe God tore the veil. The actions that follow are clearly of God.

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Keep walking. May God bless,
Taz

 

[donadams]

One doctrine and theo.ogy has to be biblically based and reasonable. Insisting that one verse illogical trumps other verse you are being irrational.

Now please explain how my early reasoning is incorrect.

Please replay in the catholic forum
Mary and the saints
The perpetual virginity of mary
If you want to
Thanks

 

[Free]

Free,
I understand why you think that way. I did too, but our heavenly Father never looked at his Son as a sinner. Mankind did.

When Paul says,

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Gal.3:13

He means,

if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance Deu.21:22-23

Paul isn't saying everyone who's crucified is accursed. He's saying Jesus was slandered.

How does “slandered” for the context? How does it fit what Paul says both about the law and in Deut 2:33, to which he is referring?

For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you.....he was betrayed 1Cor.11:23

The religious leaders said he was a blasphemer. He was falsely accused,

Yes, he was falsely accuse because they didn’t believe he actually was who he claimed to be. What are you trying to show by that?

against the LORD, and against his anointed Psa.2:2

Peter quotes that passage because the apostles were being threatened, as our Lord was.

Where does Peter say this and how is this relevant?

Also,

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Act.2:23

The determinate counsil of God is that good and evil are opposed to one another

Yea, but look at the first part you bolded—it was God’s plan and will to have his Son crucified.

what communion hath light with darkness? 2Cor.6:14

The foreknowledge of God is that he promised Israel and the gentile world that the Messiah would teach us all not to be afraid. People fear death most, themselves or loved ones. He beat death.

Where, exactly, does God promise Jews and Gentiles that “the Messiah would teach us all not to be afraid”? Are you saying the whole point of Jesus’s death and resurrection was to teach us not to be afraid of death?

Peter told them to repent.

Yes, he did, but to what end?

Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” (ESV)

How are our sins forgiven?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Hey All,
We are having a discussion. I will choose how to answer questions. You have your point of view, and I have mine. We share with each other and this broadens our understanding. My paradigm does have to agree with yours; nor yours mine.

I just don't want to play ping pong with other believers. 1Cor.1:10 instructs us to be in unity. We'll never agree if we post scripture that seems contrary, but isn't. We must examine what we're being taught and discuss it.

Some scholars of our Lords day didn't recognize him as the Messiah. That's shocking, because the scribes could recite the OT verbatim, but they were teaching heresies and it's a mistake to think that could never happen to christian theologians.

I checked three sources, including a secular source, Wikipedia. Hilasmos is the correct greek word used as propitiation in 1 John 2:2. So I stand by what I wrote. It means what I wrote.

He's a "substitute", or "in place of" his Father, not sinful mankind. Propitiation refers to the mercy seat God sat on in the Temple.

From Strongs:
ἱλαστήριον hilastḗrion, hil-as-tay'-ree-on; neuter of a derivative of G2433; an expiatory (place or thing), i.e. (concretely) an atoning victim, or (specially) the lid of the Ark (in the Temple):—mercyseat, propitiation.

Condemning an innocent man is sin. Especially if that Man is God.

In your first post directed at me, there was only one Scripture reference. I didn't have a problem with it as it is continuation of verse 13; hence the semicolon.

Colossians 2:13-14 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

I do not see a disagreement. Jesus forgave all my sins. I view "blotting out the handwriting of ordinances" as symbolic language of our debts being nailed to the cross.

Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say? Jn.8:5

He annuled a law that would have condemned her and her accusers. He erased the law by showing her mercy, as if the law didn't exist.

A similar statement is in 1Peter 2:24.

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

So "we being dead to sin" should "live unto righteousness." In other words repent,

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out Act.3:19

This is speculation on your part. We are not told who tore the veil. But the fact that the debt had been paid, and the fact that it was no longer needed, leads me to believe God tore the veil. The actions that follow are clearly of God.

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Keep walking. May God bless,
Taz

I meant the "veil" of his flesh. God tore the veil or curtain in Herods temple, which hid his presence from people. The symbolism is that Christs' flesh was torn so that people could see God in all his mercy.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

How does “slandered” for the context? How does it fit what Paul says both about the law and in Deut 2:33, to which he is referring?

Look at the vs. before it (Deu.21:22.) Only people who committed a capital offense could be executed by Moses' law.

Yes, he was falsely accuse because they didn’t believe he actually was who he claimed to be. What are you trying to show by that?

That putting an innocent man to death is sin, whether you're aware of it or not.

Where does Peter say this and how is this relevant?

Act.4:24-28. He said this because they were being threatened. The religious leaders were "gathered together against them", as they were "gathered together against the Lord and his Annointed" Opposed to God and Christ.

Yea, but look at the first part you bolded—it was God’s plan and will to have his Son crucified.

No. It was Gods'plan to show mercy to wicked men who sinned by crucifying his Son, instead of doing what the law says should have been dine to them,

If a malicious witness takes the stand to accuse someone of a crime...and if the witness proves to be a liar, giving false testimony against a fellow Israelite, then do to the false witness as that witness intended to do to the other party...
Deu.19:16,18-19

Our Savior didn't use this statute against them. He erased it in mercy.

Where, exactly, does God promise Jews and Gentiles that “the Messiah would teach us all not to be afraid”?

I, even I, am He who comforts you.
Who are you that you should be afraid
Of a man who will die, And of the son of a man who will be made like grass? Isa.51:12
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Isa.2:3
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. Jn.14:1

Are you saying the whole point of Jesus’s death and resurrection was to teach us not to be afraid of death?

Not the whole point. The whole point is, Moses' law and the prophets only condems sinners,

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Deu.24:16

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Eze.18:20

Yes, he did, but to what end?

Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” (ESV)

How are our sins forgiven?

By repent(ance) and baptism.
Repent;
μετανοέω metanoéō, met-an-o-eh'-o; from G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):—repent.

Baptism is symbolic of the death,

as many as have been baptised unto Christ Jesus, have been baptised unto his death Rom.6:3

Here is how our Lords' baptism,

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Heb.12:2-4

Jesus, despising (hating, having contempt for) the shame (of their sins, of being mocked, stripped naked and tortured to death for no lawful reason) endured this contradiction (of the truth of the law) by sinners. He spilled his blood striving against sin (fighting against their sin, withholding his law, the law he gave Moses which demanded their death for sinning against him.

He showed the world his patience and mercy. His cross is here,

many a time turned he his anger away, and did not stir up all his wrath. Psa.78:38

I'd be very angry if someone spit on me. Wouldn't you?

 

[Free]

Look at the vs. before it (Deu.21:22.) Only people who committed a capital offense could be executed by Moses' law.

Yes, exactly. An offense such as blasphemy.

That putting an innocent man to death is sin, whether you're aware of it or not.

Of course.

Act.4:24-28. He said this because they were being threatened. The religious leaders were "gathered together against them", as they were "gathered together against the Lord and his Annointed" Opposed to God and Christ.

Again, how is this relevant? Look at the context:

Act 4:24 And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, “Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them,
...
Act 4:27 for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
Act 4:28 to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. (ESV)

This passage is clearly showing that Jesus's crucifixion was planned and predestined to take place by God.

No.

Act 2:23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. (ESV)

The whole thing--being "delivered up" to be "crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men"--was "according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God."

It was Gods'plan to show mercy to wicked men who sinned by crucifying his Son, instead of doing what the law says should have been dine to them,

If a malicious witness takes the stand to accuse someone of a crime...and if the witness proves to be a liar, giving false testimony against a fellow Israelite, then do to the false witness as that witness intended to do to the other party...
Deu.19:16,18-19

Our Savior didn't use this statute against them. He erased it in mercy.

But how and what made it possible? God's holiness demands payment for sin. If God simply let them go without payment for breaking the law, then God is unjust. Either every sinner will bear the punishment of their sin, in hell for eternity, or they repent and believe that Christ's death atoned for their sin, and so are reconciled to God. That is the only way to get go free, to have our sins erased.

Rom 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
Rom 5:11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
…
Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
Rom 5:16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.
Rom 5:17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. (ESV)

I, even I, am He who comforts you.
Who are you that you should be afraid
Of a man who will die, And of the son of a man who will be made like grass? Isa.51:12
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Isa.2:3
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. Jn.14:1

I don't see how any of those verses state that the Messiah will teach everyone to not be afraid. How would that be relevant to his death?

Not the whole point. The whole point is, Moses' law and the prophets only condems sinners,

Yes, but as Paul points out:

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

But more than that, look at that statement in context:

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (ESV)

Even Jesus said that the default position is eternity apart from God, that only faith in his name would save:

Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (ESV)

We clearly see that God, the Father, sent the Son into the world "in order that the world might be saved through him." How was that done? What made that possible?

Rom 8:32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? (ESV)

2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died;
2Co 5:15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.
…
2Co 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (ESV)

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. (ESV)

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Deu.24:16

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Eze.18:20

Okay. What do these have to do with the discussion, with Christ's death?

By repent(ance) and baptism.
Repent;
μετανοέω metanoéō, met-an-o-eh'-o; from G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):—repent.

Baptism is symbolic of the death,

as many as have been baptised unto Christ Jesus, have been baptised unto his death Rom.6:3

But what makes repentance and baptism effective for the forgiveness of sins? John the baptist preached repentance and baptism, but not only was no one saved by that, he said Jesus was "the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" (John 1:29). Why would John say that? What did Jesus's death accomplish if all that was needed was repentance and baptism?

 

[Free]

Here is how our Lords' baptism,

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Heb.12:2-4

Jesus, despising (hating, having contempt for) the shame (of their sins, of being mocked, stripped naked and tortured to death for no lawful reason) endured this contradiction (of the truth of the law) by sinners. He spilled his blood striving against sin (fighting against their sin, withholding his law, the law he gave Moses which demanded their death for sinning against him.

He showed the world his patience and mercy. His cross is here,

many a time turned he his anger away, and did not stir up all his wrath. Psa.78:38

I'd be very angry if someone spit on me. Wouldn't you?

So, basically, from what I am understanding, you are saying God is unjust, correct? God just dismisses sin with no punishment for that sin being necessary. Wouldn't that also mean the law was pointless?

I prefer to believe what Isaiah says:

Isa 53:4 Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people?
Isa 53:9 And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors. (ESV)

Isaiah tells us long beforehand that the Messiah would bear our sins and iniquities as part of the will of God, to make an offereing for guilt. In other words, he took the punishment we deserved so that God's wrath would averted and he would be appeased. In doing so, he also gives us the life we don't deserve, as a free gift. God's justice and holieness are maintained by him doing what no human could possibly do.

 

[CherubRam]

Tac
Why does God allow evil?
They might replace evil with sin. But that's the general query. This is probably the most asked question for unbelievers. Here is how we can answer it. I will use sin in the example:
1. It is good that they acknowledge that evil (sin) exists. All sin stems from the original sin committed by Adam and Eve. (When we get to heaven, paraphrasing Ricky Ricardo, "Adam, Eve, ju got some splainin to do.") All people have sinned. Sin creates a need.
2. God the Father sent His Son as the only one worthy to pay the price, through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, for our sins. That is how much God showed His love for us.
3. Because of Christ's sacrifice, we can be forgiven of all our sins and have eternal life. Jesus filled that need.
4. As believers, one of the reasons we pray, is because we still sin. So we continually come to God asking forgiveness. (Even when I know those sins are covered--1John 1:9--I ask forgiveness because He is my Father. We have a relationship.) We, God and I, love each other.
5. We have a relationship with God because we are sinners.

Is the answer becoming clearer?
God hates sin. But He uses it for His purposes; which are to start, have, and build a relationship with us. I hope this helps your understanding. Keep walking everybody. May God b
less,
Taz

God gave man free will, and there are consequences from his actions.

In order to prevent evil from taking place, He would have to take away our free will.