Mysteryman
Member
Nick said:
Hi Nick
This post will be in two parts. The first is about the symbol by which people want to ascribe too. As you said, the cross should not be idolized. But many do idolize the cross in many ways. And I am sure that they do not use the symbol of the cross as a reminder. I believe when people say this, they use it as an excuse. Our memories are not that dull or short ! Close you eyes, and tell me by memory how many hands you have. Two , right ? The symbol of a cross being a reminder of what ? Some crosses have Christ still upon the cross they have. While other symbols of a cross , do not have Christ on the cross - empty cross. Which only represents that he had been taken down from the cross and put into a tomb. Everything in life represents something. Like the symbol of a fish. It could mean many things as a resemblance of. Most will say it resembles when Jesus fed the multitude with a few fish and a couple of loafs of bread. Or, it could mean , that Jesus told Peter to cast his net and the net became so full that it was about to break, which would imply abundance. And the fish could mean something else totally. It appears that people like items which reminds them of something. And they put their own spin on it, as to what it reminds them of. Are our memories that short, that we need symbols as a reminder ? Some say that the cross resembles our faith. Well, in a way that could be true, and in another way it could be construded as a lack of our faith. For we as Christians are suppose to walk by faith , and not by sight.
The second part:
How many were crucified with Christ ?
If one studies the scriptures , specifically the four gospels pertaining to the crucifixion. We can easily come to the realization = truth, that there were four crucified with Christ and not two.
There were two malefactors, and two thieves crucified with Christ. Two mocked Christ while on their own cross, and these were the two thieves. But the two malefactors who were also crucified with Christ. Only one malefactor mocked Christ, and the other malefactor reproved this other malefactor , stating that their judgement was justified ,and this same malefactor talked with Christ, asking him to remember him when he came into his kingdom. And the famous words by Jesus, "To-day" thou shalt be with me in paradise". Also, when they came to break the legs of those crucified with Christ. They came to the one and broke his legs, and to the other and broke his legs, but when they came to Christ, he was already dead, so they did not break his legs. In keeping this in order of the account given. It would be impossible to come to one and break his legs and then the other and break his legs if there was only two crucified with Christ, and then come to Jesus finding him dead. This would mean, that they would have to come by Jesus and pass him by, and go and break the legs of the other, then come back again to Jesus and find him already dead.
Here are the reference verses for you to look at --
Matthew 27:38 - Two thieves - One on the right hand, and another on the left
Matthew 27:44 - Both thieves cast the same in his teeth = Both mocked him
Mark 15:27 - again - Two thieves, one on the right the other on the left
Luke 23:39 and 40 - Two malefactors - in verse 39 - One of the malefactors railed (mocked) on Christ , and in verse 40 and 41 , the other malefactor rebukes the first malefactor. He was a God fearing man , this other malefactor. Then in verses 42 and 43 - "thou shalt be with me in paradise"
In the gospel of John we find the record of the breaking of the legs.
John 19:32 - 34
32) - "Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucifed with him"
33) - "But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs"
34) - "But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water"
Putting all the records together to get a complete picture, brings about truth.
In braking the legs , the picture looks like this -> ++ Y ++ , and when they came to Jesus, he was dead already. Now , it tells us that there were soldiers, not singular, but plural. One soldier on each side working towards the center. They brake the legs of the first = one on each side. Then the other, the next in line, still working their way towards the center. Then whey "they" , the soldiers, plural, came to Jesus, they found him dead already, and brake not his legs.
Now I will show you a bible translation discrepancy.
John 19:18 - "Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst". The word "one" was added !
This verse should read thus - "Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side, and Jesus in the midst".
Also, the word "midst" does mean - middle. But the greek word used here, indicates more than one, as this greek word is plural. So in John 19:18 there can be no word "one" in the verse !
This was a blantant addition to this verse, and can be easily seen by looking at all the scriptures pertaining to his crucifixion.
This is why the Word of God tells us, that the adversary of God will try by any means to deceive.
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But everything that I've read, from all the accounts leads to there being 2 others crucified with Jesus. The only thing that I wonder about is Mat 27:44 where is says both robbers heaped insults on Him. There's pause to wonder why they both did, but then in other versus, we see the one rebuking the other. First, I would say Mat 27:44 doesn't say "two OF the robbers", it says "the robbers who were crucified with Him". It's directed AT the two, not two OF them. It's easier for me to reconcile this by suggesting that the one repented, than to make this leap you have made, convinced that there HAD to be 5. 
), Mat 3:
totopic 
