Talk to a JW: Trinity debate

[walter45]

Honestly please,

Should we listen to a majority of scripture evidence with easy to understand wording by Jesus and the Apostles in harmony?

Or should we ignore the majority in favor of the minority scripture evidence that does not clearly explain the other belief in harmony with Jesus and the Apostles.

 

[Free]

If you would like only Jesus and the Apostles words I can list them tomorrow on this forum?

I don't find what I say of any value in the least! If we are not getting our information from Jesus and the apostles what good is it?

Everyone claims to be getting their beliefs from the Bible, but that is the issue. Everyone interprets what they read differently, based a number of things, including what they have been taught, what they have experienced, their level of general education, their level of understanding biblical interpretation, etc.

So, even though you want to post "only Jesus and the Apostles words," you're interpreting them a certain way and so your understanding of what they say may not be correct (it might be correct, it might not).

Honestly please,

Should we listen to a majority of scripture evidence with easy to understand wording by Jesus and the Apostles in harmony?

Or should we ignore the majority in favor of the minority scripture evidence that does not clearly explain the other belief in harmony with Jesus and the Apostles.

We can't ignore any of it, even if it isn't clear; it all must be taken into account or we're taking things out of context.

 

[walter45]

Everyone claims to be getting their beliefs from the Bible, but that is the issue. Everyone interprets what they read differently, based a number of things, including what they have been taught, what they have experienced, their level of general education, their level of understanding biblical interpretation, etc.

So, even though you want to post "only Jesus and the Apostles words," you're interpreting them a certain way and so your understanding of what they say may not be correct (it might be correct, it might not).


We can't ignore any of it, even if it isn't clear; it all must be taken into account or we're taking things out of context.

Sure thanks for your time if you're not interested, you're not interested in Jesus and the apostles words okay.

 

[Free]

Sure thanks for your time if you're not interested, you're not interested in Jesus and the apostles words okay.

Why would you think I'm not "interested in Jesus and the apostles words"? Of course I am interested, we cannot do without them; I'm just pointing out the issues.

 

[walter45]

Why would you think I'm not "interested in Jesus and the apostles words"? Of course I am interested, we cannot do without them; I'm just pointing out the issues.

You have very good points that you make, and I would be happy to list the scriptures tomorrow.

Thank you so much for talking with me. for me I recognize people believe differently, but if you think about it we all love Jesus and his Father very much? So we have something huge in common, Our love for Jesus and his Father.

 

[walter45]

I am sorry I just recognized that you are the lead administrator, I do not want to step on anybody's toes or cause any kind of trouble. Thank you so much for talking with me.

If you do not want me to list the scriptures, that is fine, I don't want to cause a big problem.

 

[Free]

I am sorry I just recognized that you are the lead administrator, I do not want to step on anybody's toes or cause any kind of trouble. Thank you so much for talking with me.

If you do not want me to list the scriptures, that is fine, I don't want to cause a big problem.

There is no problem with listing scriptures. I'm very interested in talking about this topic, as I think there are few topics more important than this one.

 

[walter45]

There is no problem with listing scriptures. I'm very interested in talking about this topic, as I think there are few topics more important than this one.

Yes thank you, could you help me with one topic though, I have never seen a lot of scriptural evidence that explains the words "Son of God" meaning without beginning.

Angels are called Sons of God, Adam is called Son of God, others also can be called Sons of God, but they all have a beginning, don't they? If you have any scriptures that shed some light I would appreciate them.

 

[Free]

Yes thank you, could you help me with one topic though, I have never seen a lot of scriptural evidence that explains the words "Son of God" meaning without beginning.

Angels are called Sons of God, Adam is called Son of God, others also can be called Sons of God, but they all have a beginning, don't they? If you have any scriptures that shed some light I would appreciate them.

This is where we need to look at context. In the OT, men and angels were referred to as "sons of God" or "gods" either because they were his representatives or because they were righteous. Adam was the first created human; only he and Eve were specially created among humans.

In the NT, only those who have put their faith in Jesus are sons and daughters of God (John 1:12; Rom. 8:14-17, 19, 23; Gal. 3:26; 4:5-7; Eph. 1:5).

Jesus is referred to as the Son of God, even the only Son of God (John 1:14, 18; 3:16-17). His relationship with the Father is utterly unique and of a different nature compared to that of angels and men. Of course, John 1:1-3 tells us that as the preexistent Word, the Son was in existence for "eternity past" prior to becoming flesh and dwelling among us. Jesus also said that he existed with the Father prior to the creation of the world (John 17:5, 24).

 

[walter45]

This is where we need to look at context. In the OT, men and angels were referred to as "sons of God" or "gods" either because they were his representatives or because they were righteous. Adam was the first created human; only he and Eve were specially created among humans.

In the NT, only those who have put their faith in Jesus are sons and daughters of God (John 1:12; Rom. 8:14-17, 19, 23; Gal. 3:26; 4:5-7; Eph. 1:5).

Jesus is referred to as the Son of God, even the only Son of God (John 1:14, 18; 3:16-17). His relationship with the Father is utterly unique and of a different nature compared to that of angels and men. Of course, John 1:1-3 tells us that as the preexistent Word, the Son was in existence for "eternity past" prior to becoming flesh and dwelling among us. Jesus also said that he existed with the Father prior to the creation of the world (John 17:5, 24).

Thanks for the scriptures, do you have any scriptures that explain to be called Son of God does not mean without beginning whether talking about spiritual beings in heaven or human beings on Earth?

 

[Free]

Thanks for the scriptures, do you have any scriptures that explain to be called Son of God does not mean without beginning whether talking about spiritual beings in heaven or human beings on Earth?

I'm not quite sure what you're asking, as it seems I gave many from the NT, where believers are called sons and daughters of God, and mentioned that those in the OT all refer to created beings. So, those all would mean that being a son of God does not mean without beginning.

 

[walter45]

I'm not quite sure what you're asking, as it seems I gave many from the NT, where believers are called sons and daughters of God, and mentioned that those in the OT all refer to created beings. So, those all would mean that being a son of God does not mean without beginning.

I'm sorry I'm not quite sure what you're saying here either, i'll talk with you tomorrow thank you.

 

[walter45]

Jesus words with his disciples in private, in prayer and to one of his followers:

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” 14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. Matthew 16:13-17 NIV

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3 NIV

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” John 20:17 NIV

Read the surrounding text to not take anything out of context.

 

[walter45]

The apostles taught these things to the 1st century congregation after Jesus rose and went to heaven.


Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1 Peter 1:3 NIV

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.
Ephesians 1:3 NIV

I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. Ephesians 1:17 NIV

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, 2nd Corinthians 1:3 NKJV

The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. 2nd Corinthians 11:31 NKJV

that you may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 15:6 NKJV

yet to us there is one God the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we through Him. 1st Corinthians 8:6 Berean Literal Bible

For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 1st Timothy 2:5 Berean Literal Bible

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, Rev. 1:1 NKJV

and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Rev. 1:6 NKJV

We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, Colossians 1:3 NKJV

 

[walter45]

Should we listen to a majority of scripture evidence with easy to understand wording by Jesus and the Apostles in harmony?

Or should we ignore the majority in favor of the minority scripture evidence that does not clearly explain the other belief in harmony with Jesus and the Apostles.

 

[Free]

Should we listen to a majority of scripture evidence with easy to understand wording by Jesus and the Apostles in harmony?

Or should we ignore the majority in favor of the minority scripture evidence that does not clearly explain the other belief in harmony with Jesus and the Apostles.

Both. This isn’t either/or; this isn’t a numbers game. As I stated already, we must take it all into account and make sense of it all. There is no ignoring anything or else things are getting taken out of context.

 

[JLB]

Honestly, are we supposed to be spending our time figuring out what the Trinity means or should we be Believing exactly how Jesus instructs us?

Jesus gives us specific instructions to put faith in:

If Jesus words are not trustworthy, whose words are trustworthy? --John 17:3, John 20:17, John 3:16,
Matthew 16:13-17

Jesus words are what is Essential to a Christian! Not the words he never spoke! Or something we have to figure out.

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:58-59


Why do you believe the Jews picked up stones to throw at Him when He said I AM?

 

[locust]

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:58-59


Why do you believe the Jews picked up stones to throw at Him when He said I AM?

I AM..................what's the problem with that?

 

[Free]

I AM..................what's the problem with that?

It’s Jesus’s claim to be God. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[locust]

It’s Jesus’s claim to be God. There is nothing wrong with that.

I AM not seeing the problem