Tasted Death for every Man !

[rogerg]

Okay, you made my point ! You believe people Christ died for wind up in hell for their sins including rejecting Him, hence you dont believe Jesus saves from the sin of rejecting Him, I do, so everyone He tasted death for, He does everything needed, required to bring them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Absolutely, brightfame52, as these verses (out of many) so tell us:

[Heb 2:11 KJV]
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified [are] all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

[Heb 10:12-14 KJV]
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

[rogerg]

The full concept of the "by grace you are saved through faith" clause is "the gift of God".

brightfame52, not sure this post is entirely appropriate for this thread, but it seemed to me that it might be foundational to the topic even if it does not pertain directly to it. If not, sorry.

Hi Kermos,
I've often wondered if in reading Eph 2:8, whether it might be correct to interpret it to mean that grace and faith are manifested to those saved from/by God, thereby making Him the gift; that is, for those saved, God indwells them, and by that indwelling, both grace and faith accompany Him and are imputed to them- thereby making God the gift?

[Eph 4:7 KJV] 7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

 

[Kermos]

brightfame52, not sure this post is entirely appropriate for this thread, but it seemed to me that it might be foundational to the topic even if it does not pertain directly to it. If not, sorry.

Hi Kermos,
I've often wondered if in reading Eph 2:8, whether it might be correct to interpret it to mean that grace and faith are manifested to those saved from/by God, thereby making Him the gift; that is, for those saved, God indwells them, and by that indwelling, both grace and faith accompany Him and are imputed to them- thereby making God the gift?

[Eph 4:7 KJV] 7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

God bless you, rogerg,

I believe that Jesus and the Apostles can say one sentence with multiple meanings! And, what you said, that is awesome!

 

[rogerg]

God bless you, rogerg,

I believe that Jesus and the Apostles can say one sentence with multiple meanings! And, what you said, that is awesome!

Thanks, Kermos - that is very much appreciated - especially coming from you.

 

[TahitiRun]

Grammatically, the referent to the demonstrative pronoun "τοῦτο" is probably ἐλέει (mercy/compassion) wherein the number and gender match. Mercy is also stated to be of God which compliments Paul's theme developed in the final clause of verse 8.

Eph 2:4 ὁ δὲ Θεὸς πλούσιος ὤν ἐν ἐλέει, διὰ τὴν πολλὴν ἀγάπην αὐτοῦ ἣν ἠγάπησεν ἡμᾶς,
Eph 2:5 καὶ ὄντας ἡμᾶς νεκροὺς τοῖς παραπτώμασι συνεζωοποίησε τῷ Χριστῷ· χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι·
Eph 2:6 καὶ συνήγειρε καὶ συνεκάθισεν ἐν τοῖς ἐπουρανίοις ἐν Χριστῷ ᾿Ιησοῦ,
Eph 2:7 ἵνα ἐνδείξηται ἐν τοῖς αἰῶσι τοῖς ἐπερχομένοις τὸν ὑπερβάλλοντα πλοῦτον τῆς χάριτος αὐτοῦ ἐν χρηστότητι ἐφ᾿ ἡμᾶς ἐν Χριστῷ ᾿Ιησοῦ.
Eph 2:8 τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν, Θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον·

Anyway, feel free to delete the post if you don't like it.

 

[TahitiRun]

Anyone up for discussing universalism and where/how it differs from Calvinism on this thread? I see you've been giving equal time to the Arminian/Remonstrant posts and using them like "low hanging fruit", ripe for the picking.

It doesn't have to be a war of words, but it could be entertaining and beneficial for others that might not know the difference between the two theological view points. IOW: Food for thought.

 

[rogerg]

Anyone up for discussing universalism and where/how it differs from Calvinism on this thread? I see you've been giving equal time to the Arminian/Remonstrant posts and using them like "low hanging fruit", ripe for the picking.

Not my call, TahitiRun, but I don't think it will be allowed in this thread - up to brightfame52 though.

 

[brightfame52]

Absolutely, brightfame52, as these verses (out of many) so tell us:

[Heb 2:11 KJV]
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified [are] all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

[Heb 10:12-14 KJV]
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

People kill me saying that Jesus the Saviour of sinners wants to save you but you sin too much.

 

[brightfame52]

Anyone up for discussing universalism and where/how it differs from Calvinism on this thread? I see you've been giving equal time to the Arminian/Remonstrant posts and using them like "low hanging fruit", ripe for the picking.

It doesn't have to be a war of words, but it could be entertaining and beneficial for others that might not know the difference between the two theological view points. IOW: Food for thought.

No universalism on this thread or any thread in this Calvinism/Arminianism forum please.

 

[rogerg]

People kill me saying that Jesus the Saviour of sinners wants to save you but you sin too much.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Really astounding, isn't it? It's the old, they believe Him a saviour, but one
that can't actually save - that part is up to man to accomplish. Makes no sense!

 

[brightfame52]

brightfame52, not sure this post is entirely appropriate for this thread, but it seemed to me that it might be foundational to the topic even if it does not pertain directly to it. If not, sorry.

Hi Kermos,
I've often wondered if in reading Eph 2:8, whether it might be correct to interpret it to mean that grace and faith are manifested to those saved from/by God, thereby making Him the gift; that is, for those saved, God indwells them, and by that indwelling, both grace and faith accompany Him and are imputed to them- thereby making God the gift?

[Eph 4:7 KJV] 7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

I believe it is appropriate for the subject and he did the work, it wasn't something that he imposed on others to make them do all the explaining. The people Christ tasted death for are consequently given the gift of faith.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Okay, you made my point ! You believe people Christ died for wind up in hell for their sins including rejecting Him, hence you dont believe Jesus saves from the sin of rejecting Him, I do, so everyone He tasted death for, He does everything needed, required to bring them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

God will forgive any man who turns from his sins.
That is why there is an Advocate.
No man is denied the advocacy of the Lord.
Those not willing to repent of sin will perish.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Thats another topic, this thread has been showing who they are, when its says He tasted death for every man, and what it means.

Every man is given the opportunity to repent of sin.
Jesus "tasted death" for you, me, and Hitler.
But not all of us turned to Him for His forgiveness.

 

[Hopeful 2]

People kill me saying that Jesus the Saviour of sinners wants to save you but you sin too much.

If men won't turn from darkness, they won't turn to light.

 

[GodsGrace]

Anyone up for discussing universalism and where/how it differs from Calvinism on this thread? I see you've been giving equal time to the Arminian/Remonstrant posts and using them like "low hanging fruit", ripe for the picking.

It doesn't have to be a war of words, but it could be entertaining and beneficial for others that might not know the difference between the two theological view points. IOW: Food for thought.

TR
I do believe that persons that contribute to the Calvinism Forum know the difference between Calvinism and Universalism.

Now, there might be some nuance you're thinking about.

Why not start a thread in the Universalism Forum??

 

[GodsGrace]

People kill me saying that Jesus the Saviour of sinners wants to save you but you sin too much.

I've never run into this idea.
Haven't been following this thread, but was it said on here?
Who would need a savior if not sinners?? (and we all are).

 

[GodsGrace]

Thats another topic, this thread has been showing who they are, when its says He tasted death for every man, and what it means.

You know BF, the reformed always state that the other side wants to save themselves and that this belittles God, in that He needs help in saving persons.

Actually, it's those that believe in the Limited Atonement of Christ that belittle His sacrifice...in that His sacrifice was not sufficient enough to save everyone.

This idea is so extreme that even some reformed cannot accept it.

You limit the power of Jesus.
Jesus died for every single person that ever lived...that's how great His sacrifice was.
Unfortunately, not everyone takes advantage of this wonderful opportunity.

Acts 16:31
All we need do is call upon the name of the Lord and we will be saved.

1 John 4:14
14We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
John 1:29
29The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
1 Timothy 2:6
6who gave Himself as a ransom for all,
1 Timothy 4:10
10For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
Hebrews 2:9
9But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
1 John 2:2
2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.


How do you twist the above to suit yourself?
Maybe Calvin was wrong about other doctrine too.

 

[brightfame52]

God will forgive any man who turns from his sins.
That is why there is an Advocate.
No man is denied the advocacy of the Lord.
Those not willing to repent of sin will perish.

Every man Christ tasted death for is forgiven by His Blood.

 

[brightfame52]

Every man is given the opportunity to repent of sin.
Jesus "tasted death" for you, me, and Hitler.
But not all of us turned to Him for His forgiveness.

I dont know what you talking about. Every man Christ tasted death for, by His death He brings them to Glory. Heb 2:9-10

 

[brightfame52]

You know BF, the reformed always state that the other side wants to save themselves and that this belittles God, in that He needs help in saving persons.

Actually, it's those that believe in the Limited Atonement of Christ that belittle His sacrifice...in that His sacrifice was not sufficient enough to save everyone.

This idea is so extreme that even some reformed cannot accept it.

You limit the power of Jesus.
Jesus died for every single person that ever lived...that's how great His sacrifice was.
Unfortunately, not everyone takes advantage of this wonderful opportunity.

Acts 16:31
All we need do is call upon the name of the Lord and we will be saved.

1 John 4:14
14We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
John 1:29
29The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
1 Timothy 2:6
6who gave Himself as a ransom for all,
1 Timothy 4:10
10For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
Hebrews 2:9
9But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
1 John 2:2
2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.


How do you twist the above to suit yourself?
Maybe Calvin was wrong about other doctrine too.

Every man Jesus tasted death for, it brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10