Tasted Death for every Man !

[Randy]

Again, I don't understand the point you are making. I'd rather not make any assumptions.

People in Him cut off by God for being fruitless vs people in Him being pruned for being fruitful.

 

[brightfame52]

Brainwashed by God? He's very good because I humbled myself before Him.

I can care less about what you did. This is all about Christ and what He did Heb 2:9-10

 

[brightfame52]

I didn't read that in the NT. (has no choice)

I read Jesus's desire vs their will
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those who are sent to you! How often I have longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you would have none of it!

Christ saves the person, their will is included. When Christ saves a person He saves them from their sinful will, heart, He makes them anew !

 

[brightfame52]

You don't really seem to understand it.

That is not what it says.
It says that Jesus died for every man brought to glory.
They would be just a part of all those Jesus died for, as so many refused the offer.

It is not the truth.
Jesus tasted death for all men at His crucifixion for the sins of all men who would submit to God.
Some of those Jesus died for did not submit.

Those whom Christ died for, He brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

 

[brightfame52]

I didn't read that in the NT. (has no choice)

I read Jesus's desire vs their will
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those who are sent to you! How often I have longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you would have none of it!

I dont care what you didnt read, The verses declare that The ones Jesus tasted death for by it , brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10 Not that they are given a choice on whether or not they go to Glory, its not their choice at all, its Gods will being done, Christ doing the will of the Father.

 

[rogerg]

People in Him cut off by God for being fruitless vs people in Him being pruned for being fruitful.

Those who are fruitless and cut off are so because they were not saved and know not the true gospel.
To be "in Him" is not key because it, standing alone, would only be of man's efforts not God's; instead, for God's words (the gospel) to remain in them so as make them fruitful, requires that God's be within in them: from/by God, are they made fruitful- so the key to it is God, not man. God abides only in those whom He has saved and made born-again. Should someone bring forth much fruit, all glory be to God.

[Jhn 15:4, 7 KJV]
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. ...
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.


[Mat 7:18-20 KJV]
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[Randy]

Christ saves the person, their will is included. When Christ saves a person He saves them from their sinful will, heart, He makes them anew !

His desire was to save. They wouldn't let Him.

 

[Randy]

Those who are fruitless and cut off are so because they were not saved and know not the true gospel.
To be "in Him" is not key because it, standing alone, would only be of man's efforts not God's; instead, for God's words (the gospel) to remain in them so as make them fruitful, requires that God's be within in them: from/by God, are they made fruitful- so the key to it is God, not man. God abides only in those whom He has saved and made born-again. Should someone bring forth much fruit, all glory be to God.

[Jhn 15:4, 7 KJV]
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. ...
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.


[Mat 7:18-20 KJV]
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

If they weren't in Him why the need to cut them off by the Father?

 

[Hopeful 2]

That's a ludicrous proposition and you rightly lose credibility by stating it.
Nice to see you've felt it necessary to take over from God as judge. Guess you think you know better than He does.
You don't like what those verses tell us because they clearly invalidate your pov.

Your errant inference that men reborn of God's seed after having repented of sin will commit future sins is not of God.
Only the unrepentant will keep committing sins, showing that they are the devil's children. (1 John 3:10)

Because, regarding salvation, by Jesus Christ, for the elect, He took out of the way the law that would otherwise convict them and which makes sin, sin. Everyone ever born, were born under and into that law. Hence, no law, no sin. Only the non-elect will remain under it and will suffer God's judgment accordingly. Read 1 Co 15:56 - 57, below.

If you sin you are under the Law.
The Law was made for sinners, and by it is the knowledge of sin.
One can't tell a lie, kill, steal, or commit adultery, and then say it wasn't a sin because he isn't under the Law.
The commission of the sin manifests that he is under the Law.

It is very revealing that you should choose to contradict that which is explicitly written within the verse itself - that sin was purged by Christ. What part of it do you find unacceptable and how would you change it? By taking out the "purged"? Remember, that word wasn't placed there by me - it was by God. What do you think purged in that context means?
By your criticism you try to change the intent of scripture - or is it that you consider yourself to be a new prophet bringing forth new biblical revelation?

[1Co 15:55-57 KJV]
55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?
56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

If one is still committing sin, they are not victorious through the Lord Jesus Christ.
They are unrepentant children of the devil.
Their "temple" is still polluted, so the Holy Ghost will not reside there.

I don't know what you mean.

Do you believe that when a man is reborn, it is from God's seed ?

 

[rogerg]

If they weren't in Him why the need to cut them off by the Father?They

They were in Him of but themselves not by God - they were false Christians; that is, in Him through their intellect only, but not in Him through God's indwelling. Those who claim to be Christians but are not of the elect nor indwelt with the Holy Spirit, He makes fall away because they are not of His flock.

[Luk 8:13 KJV] 13 They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

[Luk 8:18 KJV] 18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have. to have.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Those whom Christ died for, He brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

Some of them.
The ones who turn from sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sin.
Those who want to keep committing sin, will profit nothing by Jesus' suffering and death.
Jesus died for all men, but not all men will partake of that death.

 

[rogerg]

our errant inference that men reborn of God's seed after having repented of sin will commit future sins is not of God.
Only the unrepentant will keep committing sins, showing that they are the devil's children. (1 John 3:10)

And you neither know nor understand what sin is.

If you sin you are under the Law.
The Law was made for sinners, and by it is the knowledge of sin.
One can't tell a lie, kill, steal, or commit adultery, and then say it wasn't a sin because he isn't under the Law.
The commission of the sin manifests that he is under the Law.

Here again you choose to ignore that which is clearly stated in scripture. Pertaining to salvation, those saved are not under law and therefore, cannot sin a sin that it affects their salvation.

If one is still committing sin, they are not victorious through the Lord Jesus Christ.
They are unrepentant children of the devil.
Their "temple" is still polluted, so the Holy Ghost will not reside there.

Everyone commits earthly sins yourself included, whether or not you realize it. However, regarding the sin that denies someone salvation, which sin everyone is born into and is guilty of, those saved by Christ, through His grace alone, were taken out from under the law which assesses, and thereby assigns, sin (the law of sin and death), therefore, in not being under that law, judgment can no longer be levied against them, because without law, there can be no sin.

[Rom 3:20-21 KJV]
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

[Rom 3:24 KJV]
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Do you believe that when a man is reborn, it is from God's seed ?

When someone is reborn of God, they are reborn through/by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit from having been saved.
They were elected for such by God from before the foundation of the world. Not everyone is. The sin they
no longer commit is to try to justify themselves by their own works and righteousness before God instead of trusting fully in the efficacy of the works and righteousness of Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

rogerg

Those who are fruitless and cut off are so because they were not saved and know not the true gospel.

Exactly, the people Christ died for, when they hear it[the Gospel], receive it, they will bear fruit, thats guarenteed Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

 

[brightfame52]

His desire was to save. They wouldn't let Him.

No such thing as people not letting God do something, thats Blasphemy friend, and again:

Christ saves the person, their will is included. When Christ saves a person He saves them from their sinful will, heart, He makes them anew !

 

[brightfame52]

Some of them.
The ones who turn from sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sin.
Those who want to keep committing sin, will profit nothing by Jesus' suffering and death.
Jesus died for all men, but not all men will partake of that death.

Oh No, every man of them, If Christ tasted death for them, it brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

If you deny this, you deny the efficasiousness of Christs saving death, which is unbelief !

 

[brightfame52]

rogerg

Here again you choose to ignore that which is clearly stated in scripture. Pertaining to salvation, those saved are not under law and therefore, cannot sin a sin that it affects their salvation.

Correct, them for whom Christ died, though they will still sin by the flesh, it shall not be charged or imputed to them to affect their Justification before God Rom 4:7-8

Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Now this blessed man is any person for whom Christ died, their sins have already been imputed to Christ and taken care of legally before the Law and Justice of God.

 

[Randy]

No such thing as people not letting God do something, thats Blasphemy friend, and again:

Christ saves the person, their will is included. When Christ saves a person He saves them from their sinful will, heart, He makes them anew !

Jesus stated His desire vs their will
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate

 

[Randy]

I dont care what you didnt read, The verses declare that The ones Jesus tasted death for by it , brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10 Not that they are given a choice on whether or not they go to Glory, its not their choice at all, its Gods will being done, Christ doing the will of the Father.

I chose life of my own free will. You have as well if you are in Christ.

This is your belief. I don't agree.
God predestined everyone else who is not elect to be eternally condemned.

 

[Randy]

Calvinism must consider the gospel message a formality since they believe they have no other outcome but salvation.

A formality is something that follows traditional rules. Even though you knew your request for time off at work would be approved, you still went through the formality of filling out all the required paperwork

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus stated His desire vs their will
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate

Changes nothing, those who Christ died for shall be brought to Glory Heb 2:9-10