Tasted Death for every Man !

[brightfame52]

Its about Gods love for ALL.


You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Its Gods Love that sent Christ to taste death for every man and by dying, it brings every man of them to Glory, Praise God for His Saving Love.

 

[brightfame52]

This is your idea because you don't believe in the free will God gave to you.

After all, He did make you in His image.

God does not force anyone to love Him.

Forced love is not true love.

We love because He first loved us.

BECAUSE He first loved us.

No such thing as people not letting God do something, thats Blasphemy friend, and again:

Christ saves the person, their will is included. When Christ saves a person He saves them from their sinful will, heart, He makes them anew !

 

[brightfame52]

You never explained the conflict your theology causes between verses 9 and 10.

Because you can't.

I cant explain your imaginary conflict, you explain it, its yours.

 

[rogerg]

I dont believe that passage has anything to do with salvation. Heb 2:9-10 has to do with salvation, them He tasted death for, constituted Him the Captain of their Salvation

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Sorry, not sure exactly what you mean, brightfame52. My point was that the gospel would not be brought though the Jewish religious infrastructure, but only through the true Church.

 

[brightfame52]

Wow, that's a really harsh way to answer someone as a moderator. Isn't this forum about the exchange of ideas?

Just being honest, sometimes things can get heated, but just know that this thread is about what Christ did, not what we did. Read Heb 2:9-10 the whole Chapter in fact, nothing about what man did, but all about Christ and what He did.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry, not sure exactly what you mean, brightfame52. My point was that the gospel would not be brought though the Jewish religious infrastructure, but only through the true Church.

Oh nothing against what you stated, it seemed to be on point, but I dont think at the time Jesus spoke those words, salvation was the subject, but it was a national thing. When it came to salvation, Jesus gathered who needed to be gathered from that nation with no problem Jn 11:49-52

49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

 

[brightfame52]

That's not really true. Heb 2:8 is directly linked to Heb 2:9 by the use of the conjunction "δε" that is proceeded by the article. It's also being used in an adversative manner on the heels of "the all things we do not yet see". We only now see (present/indicative) a glimpse, if you will, concerning the fullness of Christ's atonement.

Heb 2:9 τὸν δὲ βραχύ τι παρ᾿ ἀγγέλους ἠλαττωμένον βλέπομεν ᾿Ιησοῦν διὰ τὸ πάθημα τοῦ θανάτου δόξῃ καὶ τιμῇ ἐστεφανωμένον, ὅπως χάριτι Θεοῦ ὑπὲρ παντὸς γεύσηται θανάτου.

I believe I have asked you not to promote universalism here in this forum, no form of it please. Take this as a fair warning !

 

[Hopeful 2]

And you neither know nor understand what sin is.

I agree with John's description in 1 John 517..." All unrighteousness is sin: "

Here again you choose to ignore that which is clearly stated in scripture. Pertaining to salvation, those saved are not under law and therefore, cannot sin a sin that it affects their salvation.

As nobody will BE saved until the day of judgement, your point is moot.
It is written..."For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?" (Rom 8:24)
How is it that you already possess that which Paul exhorts us to hope for ?
"But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation." (1 Thes 5:8)
"But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end." (Heb 3:6)

Everyone commits earthly sins yourself included, whether or not you realize it.

That is a falsehood.
A true repentance from sin precludes further sin.
Rebirth from God's seed precludes bringing forth the fruit of the devil. (1 John 3:9-10)

However, regarding the sin that denies someone salvation, which sin everyone is born into and is guilty of, those saved by Christ, through His grace alone, were taken out from under the law which assesses, and thereby assigns, sin (the law of sin and death), therefore, in not being under that law, judgment can no longer be levied against them, because without law, there can be no sin.

[Rom 3:20-21 KJV]
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

If one is still committing sins, they are as for from God's righteousness as any devil is.

[Rom 3:24 KJV]
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

As there is no sin in Christ, there can be no sin in those baptized into Him.
Sinners are not in Christ.

When someone is reborn of God, they are reborn through/by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit from having been saved.

That is an incomplete sentence that I can't understand.

They were elected for such by God from before the foundation of the world. Not everyone is. The sin they
no longer commit is to try to justify themselves by their own works and righteousness before God instead of trusting fully in the efficacy of the works and righteousness of Christ.

As Paul wrote..."But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal 5:18-21)

Sinners are not "led by" God's Spirit.
They are still led by the flesh.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Oh No, every man of them, If Christ tasted death for them, it brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

If you deny this, you deny the efficasiousness of Christs saving death, which is unbelief !

Jesus "tasted death for all men", so according to your illogical interpretation, all men should be saved.
Hitler, Mao, and billions of others won't be saved on the day of judgement.
None of them will be able to say they were denied Jesus' "tasting of death:" at their own judgements.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus "tasted death for all men", so according to your illogical interpretation, all men should be saved.
Hitler, Mao, and billions of others won't be saved on the day of judgement.
None of them will be able to say they were denied Jesus' "tasting of death:" at their own judgements.

Jesus only tasted death for them He saved, brings to Glory Heb 2:9-10

 

[Hopeful 2]

Jesus only tasted death for them He saved, brings to Glory Heb 2:9-10

That is not what the verses say.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Are you sure about that Hopeful 2? There are countless scriptures that would suggest/proclaim otherwise. I won't list them, just sayin' though.

I am certain, as men have a life-time to turn from darkness and unto light.
Those who won't "turn" will not inherit eternal life. (Gal 5:18-21)
Why are you lobbying for the likes of Hitler or Mao ?

 

[brightfame52]

That is not what the verses say.

It says it to me and quite clearly, the ones Jesus tasted death for it brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus "tasted death for all men", so according to your illogical interpretation, all men should be saved.
Hitler, Mao, and billions of others won't be saved on the day of judgement.
None of them will be able to say they were denied Jesus' "tasting of death:" at their own judgements.

Jesus came to taste death for a specific portion of mankind, the seed of Abraham, which is not all mankind Heb 2:9-10,16,17

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

 

[TahitiRun]

Wow, that was fast. Four more really good posts deleted...lol

And they weren't even advocating for universalism. I'm not even sure what scriptures I can post here. Kind of like Hong Kong, post 1997, got to be careful..lol

Anyway, I don't come here often enough to worry about it, take care you guys,

In Christ.

 

[rogerg]

However, what I don't understand is the hostility Calvinism has towards a proclamation that say's the same thing, but doesn't place a limit on it's subjects. Why of necessity does it need to be limited in that regard?

It is not hostility. The question is one of what does the Bible teach? It does not teach that everyone deserves salvation but that God instead only chose some, no, it teaches that no one deserves salvation, yet through His mercy and grace alone, God did choose some. The price Jesus Christ had to pay for that salvation, was a real price and one that is beyond our comprehension - it was not free nor was it a matter where God could just make the object larger regardless of the amount of the payment. To the contrary, it was an actual payment to be made by Jesus based upon the specific object's cost for its redemption. Those who become saved are those whom He made payment to save. It cannot be that he paid the price for everyone, and yet, some of those He paid for don't become saved. How could the Father demand payment for something that He was unwilling or unable to produce for Jesus - and should the Father have demanded that payment be made anyway (which He didn't), then that would be inequitable. When a payment is made, that which was paid for must be surrendered to the purchaser for the agreed upon amount, or either the payment was insufficient for the object being purchased, or the one who made the payment was denied that which was due him. Therefore, theoretically speaking, should that payment have been intended to include everyone (which it wasn't), then everyone must become saved, otherwise, Jesus did not receive that for which He paid. Though I spoke thus for example's sake, we can know the Father would always be perfectly faithful and true to the terms of His agreement - of that we can be certain - that He would always deliver precisely what was agreed upon, for precisely the price agreed upon, yet, for no more nor less than that because that would then also be inequitable.
What most people can't perceive is that God was under no obligation whatsoever to save anyone because no one deserves that salvation in the first place- just the opposite is true - that we are all sinners who truly deserve His eternal judgment and wrath. What is so scary about it is that there is no way around it- no redo's permitted- so were no one to be saved, we would be only getting that which we deserved, and no complaint nor appeal about it would be valid.
Therefore, we are completely and fully dependent upon the application of His grace and mercy alone for salvation.
Man's spiritual dilemma was brought upon man solely by man and we all the prisoners of it.

 

[rogerg]

God bless you, rogerg,

I believe that Jesus and the Apostles can say one sentence with multiple meanings! And, what you said, that is awesome!

What I should have said to you, Kermos, was that if I was able to notice something unique in that verse,
it was only because God opened my eyes to it - as He does with many people in different situations. It was not in any way of my own doing, so then, and as we all know, all of the glory for it goes to God alone.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Jesus came to taste death for a specific portion of mankind, the seed of Abraham, which is not all mankind Heb 2:9-10,16,17

The verse itself says "all men" !

 

[Hopeful 2]

It says it to me and quite clearly, the ones Jesus tasted death for it brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

"All men" means all men, to me.

 

[brightfame52]

"All men" means all men, to me.

Okay thats fine, to me Heb 2:9-10 all men means some , but all whom He brings to Glory because He tasted death for them. So if a person is never saved, which we know that will be the case Matt 25:41 then Christ did not taste death for them.

And if you hold to the false notion that Christ tasted death for all without exception, including them which shall perish in their sins in unbelief, then you deny the saving efficacy of Christs death, which is unbelief !